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110%er [7971]
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Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 8:52 AM
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I agree it's probably past time for his retirement. That being said, Jack has done great things with this program. You can say it was all because of his asst. coaches, but couldn't the same be said of Dabo?
Does the once a Tiger, always a Tiger motto not hold up for coaches who have dedicated years of their lives to Clemson, just because they are on the downsides of their career?
Not making excuses for Jack, just saying he deserves a little respect.
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CU Guru [1429]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 8:58 AM
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Well said and thanks for saying it!
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Starter [394]
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I do not hate Jack Leggett, I have never met the man
Mar 28, 2015, 9:06 AM
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I am not happy with the job he has done over the last 5 to 8 years. I am not anti-Jack. I am pro-Tiger baseball.
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CU Medallion [68347]
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Re: I do not hate Jack Leggett, I have never met the man
Mar 28, 2015, 9:31 AM
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This. It is time to get baseball going again. It doesn't appear that will happen with him. Not sure why buy it has reached a point where something has to be done
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Legend [18849]
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He will always be a Tiger, even after he's fired.***
Mar 28, 2015, 9:12 AM
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CU Guru [1512]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 9:17 AM
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scottou: Yes, I do think Jack for his accomplishments for Tiger baseball over his tenure here. Having said that, this is becoming a laughing matter. The fact is he should have been gone at the end of last season so we've lost another year to get this program back on track.
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Head Coach [762]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 9:20 AM
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Agree he should have stepped down but his ego force him to stay.
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CU Medallion [62759]
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So, jack is clemson's spurrier?
Mar 28, 2015, 9:28 AM
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Just kidding ... I would not wish that moniker on anyone.
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Head Coach [751]
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Re: So, jack is clemson's spurrier?
Mar 30, 2015, 5:34 PM
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I think in competitive sports where pride and ego rule, it is important to not out stay your welcome. I remember JL's arrogance in responding to the media about his team's struggles almost as if to say" how dare you question my team or my coaching." I chose my words carefully and yes, I meant arrogance because that is a direct result of a huge, out of control EGO of which JL has one. When you wear out your welcome, you lose the opportunity to write your own ending. It's time for him to bow out gracefully and write his own ending, in my opinion.
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Starter [365]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 9:24 AM
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I don't think Jack realized how "Young" this year's team turned out to be. It has come to the point all factors have to be revaluated. Having a hard time getting Quality players in the ACC.
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CU Guru [1330]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 10:29 AM
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Interesting that you say it's tough to get good players in the ACC. Virginia, FSU, UNC, etc. don't seem to have these same issues. It's about time for a change, in my opinion.
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CU Medallion [62759]
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I don't hate him, but it is past due on his retirement.
Mar 28, 2015, 9:27 AM
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Wish he could go out on a higher note.
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Hall of Famer [21853]
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I just want to see Clemson Baseball be fun again
Mar 28, 2015, 9:30 AM
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I use to love going to games as a student. But now... sometimes I dread listening to the games or looking up scores just because I expect the worst. It shouldn't be that way. It's baseball... I know you're not going to win every game and you're dealing with amateur athletes. That said, Clemson has been an outstanding college baseball program for a long time. Looking at the program now, we're mediocre at best. That's not acceptable. If Jack's success has been based on his assistants, then who's to blame for the current staff that has been assembled? That would be Jack. Dabo has replaced his assistants with even better assistants (some that were possibly questioned at first but Dabo has foresight and knows what's best for his program). And that's working out EXTREMELY WELL. Jack has been in the baseball game for a long, long time. If he can't spot and evaluate good coaching assistants, then he has lost his touch in the game and needs to retire. Thank you for your contributions to the program, Jack, but please don't run it into the ground because you've "earned" the right to do whatever you see fit.
~JKB
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Commissioner [981]
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Keeping pep WAS WORSE MOVES EVER
Mar 28, 2015, 9:33 AM
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The guy is not a pitching coach at all! Worst in game calling of a game ever, Yesterday he goes to mound and Crownover then walks a guy intentionally and then 3 straight more
PEP is a JINX and a JOKE
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110%er [5513]
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Jack = Papa Bowden
Mar 28, 2015, 9:36 AM
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Great coach that tarnished his legacy by staying way too long
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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Papa won championships, Jack hasn't. Only thing similar is
Mar 28, 2015, 11:12 AM
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both stayed way too long after they should have stepped down.
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Devotee [305]
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Wrong. Jack inherited a great program, Bowdn built one. Jack
Mar 29, 2015, 8:27 AM
[ in reply to Jack = Papa Bowden ] |
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didn't win championships, Bowden did.
NO one hates Jack, but he is at least 5 years past due on retirement.
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110%er [6996]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 9:42 AM
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I was a Leggett supporter for a dozen years. No question, however that the program has been in a slow steady decline for the last 5 years. It is impossible to expect a competitor like him to just walk away. He'll have to be fired, and that's too bad.
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All-In [26217]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 9:55 AM
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Leggett's personality or lack thereof contributes to some of this I believe.
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110%er [6937]
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Legend [18310]
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Nice post,
Mar 28, 2015, 10:05 AM
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A certain faction here, however, will keep it up. I think Jack might get a reassignment offer, I hope he remains a Tiger in some capacity. He should NEVER be fired.
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All-TigerNet [14921]
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My issue exactly. I'm slowly falling onto the 'time to
Mar 28, 2015, 10:23 AM
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retire' side of the fence but the people who come on here and say stupid #### like "Jack only coasted on what Wilhelm did" make me want to take a hardline opposite stance.
If you don't recognize what he's done for the program and the University, and the fact that he is undeniably a HOF coach, then you're just hating and rational people aren't going to agree with whatever your opinion is.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 10:24 AM
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I also do not like to see all this Jack hate BUT he has EARNED all of it by refusing to leave!
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All-In [26217]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 11:08 AM
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Leggett has done a lot for Clemson baseball. My problem with him, besides his personality, is that it is quite apparent that the current system is broken and he refuses to change anything. When something is broken, you take measures to fix it. No sign of that anywhere.
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CU Medallion [55721]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 29, 2015, 5:53 AM
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Whats broken is Dan Pepicelli, and we have been broken from the day of his hire. I think that Jack can still win, but he has waited much to long to fix the broken part he bought. He bought a broken part and has refused to buy another to replace the bad one he got out of the box. That happens, but you keep it and try and make it work for years. Send them back and replace them, you don't try and fix them.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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all the Leggett "hate" wouldn't bother me nearly as much, if
Mar 28, 2015, 12:23 PM
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I saw some of these self-professed Tiger baseball "fans" come on the board to celebrate a win and congratulate the team and coaching staff.
Same with the Brownell "haters".
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Rock Defender [58]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 2:08 PM
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It's not hate. The man is doing a sorry job coaching and is destroying a once proud baseball program. I support the baseball team but can't stand the arrogant JL. Fire the loser.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 28, 2015, 2:10 PM
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GREAT POST BY TIGERBOBBY!! well said and completely true! Jack must go!
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110%er [5738]
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Can't compare Leggett to Dabo, personality alone puts ...
Mar 28, 2015, 2:21 PM
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... Dabo in a completely different category.
Leggett is a bit of a curmudgeon.
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CU Medallion [55721]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 29, 2015, 4:32 AM
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Our Baseball has been on a down slide since the day Jack took over. His assistants are what has kept him from hitting the bottom faster. Jack's biggest down fall was sticking with Pep 5 years to long. Good assistants make average head coaches look better than they are. Jack made a bad assistant coach hire in Pep. Any winning HC has great assistant coaches, all of them. Dabo is a great recruiter, but without great assistant coaches, yes, even Dabo would only be an average HC without great assistant coaches surrounding him. The same could be said about Saban also. Look what happen to Slurrier after losing his best assistants. Its all about a great staff, and Jack didn't have the balls to let Pep go before it was to late. He was even given a second chance to make the changes and didn't when he should have been fired at the end of last season. If Jack would have fired Pep at the end of last season, and hired someone that could have helped him. Even with an average season this season, he wouldn't be in the chit ditch he is in now. He would have been given a chance for him and a new assistant time to turn it around. Jack's stubbornness will get him fired and he done it to himself. His hard headed stubbornness is going to cause him to have a sore hurt A$$. He done it his way, and his way this time was the wrong way. Bye bye Jack, its been real, but not real enough the past 5 seasons. I hope that him and his wife enjoys their retirement, and will continue coming to the games on good terms with Clemson and who ever replaces him. I wish only the very best for Jack in his retirement....
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CU Medallion [66208]
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Saying a change needs to be made for the program to move
Mar 30, 2015, 8:36 AM
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forward does not equate to hate in my book. It is just a reality. Sometimes, you have just stayed too long at the dance, and I think that is the situation with Coach Leggett here.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 9:13 AM
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You are confusing Hate with a love for the program and wanting our baseball to do well.
Just because I want and have wanted a change doesn't mean I hate JL. He did some great things here, and I appreciate that but we all know he's past his prime and has been for a few years. If he truly loved and respected Clemson he should've stepped down, but instead his ego has kept this chitshow going. He also seemed to blow off what Rad told him after last years debacle. Changes were needed and it doesn't look like they took place.
Respect is a two way street.
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Trainer [35]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 1:18 PM
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Well said! I know Clemson has a tremendous amount of passion, which is exactly one of the reasons I love this place, but we also have some very disrespectful fans that have no clue, and unfortunately those are the "squeakiest wheels" of all!
College Baseball has changed a lot the last 10 years. The mid-major programs are the ones that have benefited the most, as well as the programs who have a proactive adminstration (i.e. LSU, Florida, Miss State etc.) We are 5 years behind getting the right facility, and now that it has started it is ~6 months behind schedule! Clemson gets 11.7 scholarships, just like every other Division I college, but the other universities have figured out how to get in state tuition to out of state students, and many of the private universities have very large endowments and academic money to close the "affordability" gap for their baseball programs. I was recently talking to the family of a top 2016 player from another state who had Clemson as his top choice, but the scolarship offers he was getting from private schools and other top out of state programs could not be matched by Clemson (not even close). The other schools were able to qualify this player for out of state tuition, and get some academic money (and the student is just a average student).
We do have great players in our program (Crownover, Duggar, Okey, Krieger) are all players that will likely be top 5 round picks when they do decide to leave college. Many of these players and others in the program made decision to attend Clemson because of Jack Leggett and what he represents, so YES he does deserve more respect and a lot of credit of taking this program to where it has gone the last 22 years.
What really appears evident to me is where we are really impacted by lack of "scholarship" $ as mentioned above, is in the area of pitching depth. Many top pitchers have been signed by Clemson the last several years and for one reason or another (mainly injuries) have not panned out and I always wonder what happened to those top level recruits. The issue is that Jack Leggett is the type of coach that will honor his commitments to his players and honor that players scholarship if he gets injured. There is something to say about teaching players integrity, honesty, honoring agreements, etc. and some programs just don't have that moral fortitude. I am sure there are many Clemson pitchers that pitch regularly that are not even on a scholarship since due to the lack of $ available (not sure just speculating). In my opinion, this is where we feel it the most. When you get down 6-0 it is an uphill battle and the position players / hitters try to do too much and play much tighter as a result. All great teams have one common ingredient and that is great pitching depth...look at the Atlanta Braves with Maddox, Glavine, and Smoltz in the 90's....and of course the closers they had each year to get the last couple of innings if by chance they couldn't make it all the way.
Bottom line is that yes we do expect to have a top baseball program in the country, but you cannot underestimate the impact of some of the changes in the baseball landscape the last 10 years. Starting with tile 9, the baseball draft changes, getting good junior college players to fill a void when players leave for draft, etc. and some schools have been much more proactive in managing through this evolution...Clemson has not. The previous Administration fell asleep at the wheel, but Rad appears to be the type of leader that will level the playing field for the program prospectively, and it appears that he has more accomplished in his 2+ year tenure than the previous administration did the prior 10 years! But these changes take time to be implemented and it will take more time to get there.
Just wanted to provide a little "education/background" for the uneducated fans that seem to make the most noise without having any basis other than "emotion" to make absurd claims! Before any new head coach would agree to become a coach here at Clemson they would have their list of items they would insist on having committed support from the adminstration on to neutralize the lack of scholarship $ parity that Clemson currently is faced with.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 2:05 PM
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ClemBaseballfan88,
1. Our facilities are not terrible. I hate that excuse because that is what it is. This is not a Doug Kingsmore is Littlejohn Coliseum deal. Not even remotely close to that. Our baseball facility is on par with a lot of our competition right now that we ARE LOSING TO. Our facility is not the reason we look like a heaping pile of vomit on the diamon
2. Duggar will not be a top 5 round draft pick. The only definite out of the players you listed is Crownover. Also....if he has so many great players on this team then why are we getting our teeth bashed in by everyone. Either those players aren't that great (recruiting problem) or Jack is not a very good coach
3. Many of the players came to play for Clemson because of our program and what it was. You will not find many players saying they loved playing for Leggett. I know some right now who couldn't stand the guy. Not everyone is going to like you, but this is way beyond that
4. Lack of scholarship money did not make us below .500 It is a concern that the AD is working on, but in no way explains the level of play we are seeing.
If we were close to being competitive your post would be valid.
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Hall of Famer [21645]
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This will fall on deaf ears with many. Some people just don't
Mar 30, 2015, 1:19 PM
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have the capacity for real respect or self-awareness. They wont understand the difference between criticism and insults. They will never understand how they take some of the fun out of sports for others. They approach sports more like an angry mob than a source of fun and community. It's just human nature.
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All-TigerNet [12245]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 1:51 PM
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I don't look at it that way at all. He slowly eroded our program. If he truly was "once a tiger, always a tiger" he would have had the decency to step down a long time ago and get someone in here that can actually start building a program again.
Dude is old and tired. I get that. He doesn't want to recruit, build relationships, and do what it takes to win anymore. He hasn't for years. He knows that and he chose to essentially kill our program and collect a paycheck.
Jack took over something great. Something ANYONE could have won with. Now it is nothing. I am sorry, but that is not "doing great things".
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All-TigerNet [14511]
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Re: Hate to see all the Jack Leggett hate
Mar 30, 2015, 2:47 PM
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SAD THING IS OLD PALMETTO ACTUALLY BELIEVES THOSE THINGS. TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT PROGRAM HE INHERITED. NO ONE IS A BIGGER WILHELM FAN THAN ME, HEL L HE RECRUITED MY BROTHER AND WAS A GOOD FRIEND WITH OUR COACH AT YORK. FACT IS HE COACHED AT A TIME WHEN THERE WAS NO ONE IN THE ACC SERIOUS ABOUT BASEBALL. HE "WAS" ACC BASEBALL. AND DAMNE D GOOD AT IT. THE FACT IS IN 19 OF THE YEARS HE COACHED HE MADE NO POST SEASON APPEARANCES. NONE. HOW MANY IN HERE KNEW THAT PART.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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Deer Deroberts
Mar 30, 2015, 2:56 PM
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WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH JACK?
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