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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Guys, it's called contract negotiation
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:11 PM
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Dabo knows the game. Leave all options open, leverage for more money.
His son plays for Clemson. He is Clemson. He's obviously not leaving.
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Legend [19586]
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BV's son played for Clemson too
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:12 PM
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I don't think Dabo will ever leave Clemson but that's not a good reason to the contrary.
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CU Medallion [65646]
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Don't you know by now not to bring FACTS into a perfectly irrational TNET
Nov 14, 2023, 4:17 PM
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discussion?
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Of course, it's only a mitigating factor
Nov 14, 2023, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to BV's son played for Clemson too ] |
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I love Dabo, but I'm not sure his ego could handle being at a major University where he is truly at the mercy of the board and donors. Not that he wouldn't be successful, but right now at Clemson it is the Dabo show, for better or worse.
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All-In [25015]
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and also at A&M he could not flaunt
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:19 PM
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the two national titles for leverage against complaining fans
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All-In [44066]
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I would hope that Dabo doesnt get a raise out of this.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:13 PM
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He hasn’t performed to the level of his current contract for three years straight. He doesn’t deserve more.
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Legend [19586]
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He earned his current contract
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:14 PM
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2008 to 2020
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All-In [44066]
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Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:17 PM
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but any attempt at a raise should be based on how we have done since then.
He doesn’t have a leg to stand on in that case, as we’ve finished outside the top 10 three years in a row. Not good when you’re the second highest paid coach.
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Legend [19586]
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Raises aren't always dictated by performance alone
Nov 14, 2023, 4:23 PM
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but market as well.
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CU Guru [1352]
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Re: Raises aren't always dictated by performance alone
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:46 PM
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I don't think he wants a true market appraisal versus the top 5 paid coaches right now?? He wouldn't rate well against them in recent performance metrics.
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Legend [19586]
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Coaches are paid by what they have accomplished
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:52 PM
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so yes he would
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All-In [44066]
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How long do his national championships from 5 and 7 years ago
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Nov 14, 2023, 8:13 PM
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outweigh his most recent performance, which includes three underachieving seasons and a mediocre record against power 5 opponents?
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Let's frame things this way
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Nov 14, 2023, 8:19 PM
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You seem to be partial to basketball, which is noble! If Clemson were to win an ACC championship this year and in 2025, how long would you use it as a talking point? (I say ACC championship because we both know a national championship is completely unrealistic).
I'm not talking expectations or funding. I'm talking you personally. How long would YOU use it as ammunition to defend Brownell's track record?
I don't post often on here, but Judge - you seem to have created more enemies against our basketball program than supporters. It is hard to rationalize, honestly. To be human is to be biased, yet you seem to have a difficult time grasping that this board is certainly biased toward football (and for much more sound reasoning relative to basketball).
If the shoe were on the other foot, we would quite literally never hear the end of it. Just accept that this is a southern university that emphasizes football success, but certainly roots for basketball success as well. You are fighting a losing battle and ironically decreasing support in the process.
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All-In [44066]
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This is really simple.
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Nov 14, 2023, 8:33 PM
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I’m on Clemson’s side, not Dabo’s side, not Brownell’s side.
Like you, I want what’s best for Clemson. I’d like for Dabo to be at Clemson a long time, assuming he returns our program to being one of the best in the country and represents our program well on and off the field.
What I won’t do is give Dabo whatever he wants, simply because he’s been successful in the past. He has to earn his contract just like any other employee, especially since he is paid 8 figures a year and manages a football empire.
When Brad wins an ACC title, he will deserve a raise. If that raise makes him among the highest paid in the conference, it stands to reason that he should be expected to maintain the program as one of the best in the ACC moving forward. If the program slipped for several years in a row, it would be understandable for people to be less eager to give him another raise.
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Hall of Famer [24236]
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tell 'em shill
Nov 14, 2023, 9:20 PM
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LOL
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110%er [6135]
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Re: This is really simple.
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:22 PM
[ in reply to This is really simple. ] |
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apparently Brad doesn't need to win championships to get a raise and extensions.......But Dabo has to go to the playoffs every single year and win it every other???? face it man, football is king. and outside one month a year, nobody in the south (outside of north carolina) really cares that much about basketball
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All-In [44066]
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Sounds like a Clemson problem, not a Judge Keller problem.
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:26 PM
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There is nothing wrong with our fan base loving football and having it as the most important sport, but it does become a problem when it’s worn as a badge of honor to the point that basketball is de-emphasized.
At least, it’s a problem if you want to have more consistent basketball success. If you don’t, that’s fine, but you can’t beat your chest about being a football school and not caring about basketball, but then whine and complain when basketball isn’t always one of the best in the ACC.
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Freshman [-79]
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Bull ####. You love you some Bard
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Nov 14, 2023, 10:01 PM
[ in reply to This is really simple. ] |
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The losingest coach in Clemson history.
Waaaaay overpaid.
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Let's frame things this way
Nov 14, 2023, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to How long do his national championships from 5 and 7 years ago ] |
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You seem to be partial to basketball, which is noble! If Clemson were to win an ACC championship this year and in 2025, how long would you use it as a talking point? (I say ACC championship because we both know a national championship is completely unrealistic).
I'm not talking expectations or funding. I'm talking you personally. How long would YOU use it as ammunition to defend Brownell's track record?
I don't post often on here, but Judge - you seem to have created more enemies against our basketball program than supporters. It is hard to rationalize, honestly. To be human is to be biased, yet you seem to have a difficult time grasping that this board is certainly biased toward football (and for much more sound reasoning relative to basketball).
If the shoe were on the other foot, we would quite literally never hear the end of it. Just accept that this is a southern university that emphasizes football success, but certainly roots for basketball success as well. You are fighting a losing battle and ironically decreasing support in the process.
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Legend [19586]
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110%er [6135]
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Re: How long do his national championships from 5 and 7 years ago
Nov 14, 2023, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to How long do his national championships from 5 and 7 years ago ] |
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a lot more than brads national champio......wait.
a lot more than brads NIT champions.....hold up
a lot more than brads ACC cha...... ahhh nevermind
a lot more than brads.........oh wait........brad hasn't won anything! and yet you want neff to dump even more money into the basketball program?!?!?!? You're out of your mind!
Didn't Dabo JUST win an ACC title in football? that's what I like to call.....RECENT SUCCESS!
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All-In [44066]
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Yes, and winning the ACC last year still didnt result in a top 10 finish.
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:30 PM
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Yet Dabo is the SECOND HIGHEST PAID FOOTBALL COACH.
Winning a conference championship in a conference that isn’t a football power isn’t why we are paying Dabo $11 million a year. And besides, he didn’t do it the year before, and he didn’t do it this year either.
Face it, Dabo has underachieved three years in a row. If you don’t like the super high expectations, don’t pay him at a level commensurate with one of the top programs in the country.
There has to be a point at which recent performance outweighs prior success. If not, Ed Orgeron could decide to be a power 5 head coach again and command a $10 million salary simply because he’s won a national championship. You and I both know it doesn’t work that way.
Colleges aren’t paying coaches eight figures just because they’ve won big in the past. They are paying them that because they expect them to do it in the future too.
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Freshman [-79]
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Freshman [-79]
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I wouldn't mind him having a little bump with the guarantee of.......
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance ] |
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him playing the "portal game" to turn the ship around to get back to and sustain "elite" in this ERA of college football.
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Legend [16930]
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Orange Blooded [2347]
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MVP [528]
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Re: Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance
Nov 14, 2023, 8:20 PM
[ in reply to Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance ] |
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Give me a break on his money already. My opinion, your opinion,nor anyone else here, will have any bearing on what his next contract will be.
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Hall of Famer [22779]
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Re: Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance
Nov 14, 2023, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to Im fine with his contract, based on prior performance ] |
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Dabo’s contract includes a clause that his salary will be reviewed periodically and will be adjusted if needed to insure that it is one of the top 3 salaries in the country. This has been widely publicized. So if you are fine with his current contract you would have to be fine with a raise if the market dictates it. Or maybe you just don’t know what you are talking about. Again.
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All-In [27195]
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All-In [44066]
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Your butthurt over this topic is sad.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:22 PM
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What does Brownell have to do with this? Is your ego really so fragile that you had to bring up Brownell to try to make yourself feel better?
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All-In [27195]
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Re: Your butthurt over this topic is sad.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:24 PM
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My ego? LOL. If anyone, it's YOU who gets butthurt when your boy Brownlee gets criticized. And it's YOU who loves to criticize Dabo every chance you get. And yes, I stand by my statement: he didn't deserve the extension.
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All-In [44066]
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I honestly dont care if you or anyone else criticizes Brownell.***
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:26 PM
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All-In [27195]
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Re: I honestly dont care if you or anyone else criticizes Brownell.***
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:27 PM
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Really? LOL
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Legend [16877]
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Watch out for the lightning strike!
Nov 14, 2023, 4:40 PM
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Sheesh! No less true words were ever printed!
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Legend [16930]
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Not how the market works
Nov 14, 2023, 4:16 PM
[ in reply to I would hope that Dabo doesnt get a raise out of this. ] |
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If Texas a&m values him at a certain #, then that's absolutely what he is worth.
I just don't see Dabo joining a program where the board and donors truly run the show. I'm not sure his ego could handle it. Dabo is Clemson and Clemson is Dabo. I think any other major University would be a rude awakening for him. Not that he wouldn't be successful, of course.
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All-In [44066]
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Dabo isnt Clemson, and Clemson isnt Dabo.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:19 PM
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You’re very wrong there.
I understand how the market works, the point is that we shouldn’t pay him more when he isn’t performing to the level of his current deal.
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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If you understand how the market works
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:23 PM
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Then why are you reacting emotionally? Supply and demand. Whatever Texas a&m is willing to pay is suddenly his worth.
And yes, Dabo is currently Clemson. A rising tide lifted all boats. Have you been to Clemson recently? It is almost unrecognizable, and I graduated in 2013. I'm not saying it's good or bad, but it has absolutely become Dabo-world.
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All-In [44066]
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Im not reacting emotionally.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:31 PM
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I’m being quite logical here.
Dabo is the second highest paid coach. We haven’t been anywhere close to one of the top teams in the country in the last several years. Why should Dabo get a raise just because another school wants to pay someone more?
College football is big money. It’s a “what have you done for me lately?” business. Dabo doesn’t have much to brag about these last few years.
Now, if you want Clemson to give Dabo whatever salary he wants, simply because he’s won big in the past and you’re scared to lose him, THAT’S reacting emotionally.
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Legend [19933]
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Re: Im not reacting emotionally.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:41 PM
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Has Dabo run a clean program here?
Has Dabo seen his players graduate?
Has Dabo represented Clemson well?
"Dabo doesn't have much to brag about these last few years.".......REALLY?
Maybe the University leadership has a different perspective than you.
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All-In [44066]
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If the university simply wants a coach who
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:36 PM
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runs a clean program, graduates his players, and represents the school well, we can get that for a lot less than $11 million a year.
The salary is not only for the things you mentioned, but for high level success. We should be in the playoffs more often than not for a coach paid the second highest in the country, especially since everything is in place for that high level success.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Im not reacting emotionally.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:48 PM
[ in reply to Im not reacting emotionally. ] |
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So why don’t you apply the same market analytics to basketball? Football is still very profitable under Dabo, it isn’t just W/Ls. A lack of Ws overtime will erode profitability and there will be an issue. But you don’t want that scale. You say it should be pure performance. How do you justify Brownell last raise and extension. He’s a top 40 paid coach with only 2 top 40 finishes. And, of all coaches making $3+ million he has least ncaa appearances and wins. Can you please direct me to your disagreement with his last extension. For some reason I feel like you celebrated it. Which makes no sense with your strict performance based market value beliefs.
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Orange Blooded [2347]
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Re: Im not reacting emotionally.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to Im not reacting emotionally. ] |
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I don't know the board rules but somebody get rid of this idiot.
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110%er [6135]
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Re: Im not reacting emotionally.
Nov 14, 2023, 9:25 PM
[ in reply to Im not reacting emotionally. ] |
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bro.......he won the ACC just last year.....
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All-In [44066]
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Great, but thats not worth $11 million a year and a finish outside the top 10.***
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:34 PM
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All-TigerNet [10869]
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Dabo and Saban set the bar for coaches salaries.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:18 PM
[ in reply to I would hope that Dabo doesnt get a raise out of this. ] |
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A&M is probably about the move the bar to a different level.
Once they do, Clemson will have to react to the new level. Part of doing business.
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All-In [44066]
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Well, that would be a poor business decision by Clemson.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:21 PM
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Now if he wants a small raise, but we reduce the one-sided buyout to make it more equitable, I would be willing to consider that.
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Thank God you would be willing to consider that
Nov 14, 2023, 4:27 PM
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I will send Dabo an email so we can all finally get some much-needed rest. I'm sure his reps have been suffering in silence at the thought of an anonymous TNET forum poster disagreeing with the details of his contract.
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All-In [44066]
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Um, this is a hypothetical discussion.
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Nov 14, 2023, 4:33 PM
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We are sharing opinions here.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Well, that would be a poor business decision by Clemson.
Nov 14, 2023, 4:50 PM
[ in reply to Well, that would be a poor business decision by Clemson. ] |
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“Willing to consider” him reducing the value of his contract? How generous of you. Like your delusion that you have any role in such consideration.
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CU Guru [1788]
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Freshman [-79]
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Fire Brad and his mistaken 38th highest salary in America.
Nov 14, 2023, 9:45 PM
[ in reply to I would hope that Dabo doesnt get a raise out of this. ] |
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Dabo has accomplished more than any coach in Clemson history and it’s not even close.
Brad has accomplished nothing except a sweet 16 in thirteen years.
Time to trim the fat.
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Orange Blooded [4079]
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Re: Guys, it's called contract negotiation
Nov 14, 2023, 4:20 PM
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Dabo is going no-where. it’s not even in the realm of possibility ATM.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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correct....it's hypothetical discussion...better than most other topics on board
Nov 14, 2023, 4:30 PM
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right now.
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All-In [31316]
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Re: Guys, it's called contract negotiation
Nov 14, 2023, 4:27 PM
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Are all these Dabo post based on anything besides rumors? Seems to be a lot of discussion and the only person I seen even mention anything is the SEC homer.
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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He released a statement
Nov 14, 2023, 4:30 PM
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Like every other statement he or any other coach worth their salt has released - vague so as to possibly leverage it into a better contract at current school.
People seem to fail to understand how contract negotiations work.
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Standout [326]
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Re: He released a statement
Nov 14, 2023, 4:57 PM
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I am sure glad,and I know the University is, that there is negotiations Old Judge would approve of for Dabo's contract. Tee hee. Go tigers,kick ####!
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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another word for it is greed. He could end all speculation with a simple,
Nov 14, 2023, 8:07 PM
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"No, I'm not at all interested." NO ill-effects on recruiting, or the team focus. Not to do so, means he either does have some interest, or, like you say, he is trying to increase his contract. Either way, to not give a definite no is not a good look to recruits, or commits.
I am a huge Dabo fan, and hope he stays, but if he leaves, I say let's look for someone that will use the portal.
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Orange Blooded [2825]
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Your statement comes from a lack of experience
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Nov 14, 2023, 8:13 PM
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Never, EVER waste an opportunity to increase your own worth. Point blank period.
If another company tries to hire you away from your current company for more money you ALWAYS entertain it to increase your value at current company. A door slammed shut today is a door closed in your face tomorrow.
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All-In [44066]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32974
Joined: 2/22/03
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Great, so assuming that you are a Clemson fan more than you are a Dabo fan
1
Nov 14, 2023, 8:17 PM
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I’m assuming you’d be fine with Clemson being vague about Dabo’s future at Clemson? Or even threatening to move on if Dabo doesn’t do what we want?
Because Dabo has done all of that publicly within the last two weeks.
Turnabout is fair play, right?
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MVP [528]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 325
Joined: 10/14/17
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All-TigerNet [13575]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8955
Joined: 8/30/18
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Re: Guys, it's called contract negotiation
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Nov 14, 2023, 8:20 PM
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You always want to leave your options open and not burn any bridges, even when you have no real interest. Life can change fast and unexpectedly.
That's just called playing it smart...
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Recruit [93]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 154
Joined: 9/13/17
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He just got a 10 year contract and had a crap year?
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Nov 14, 2023, 9:36 PM
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What's to negotiate?
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