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CU Medallion [58436]
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Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 10:49 AM
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moment, not knowing if we've done enough to make the NCAA Tournament, would this level of acheivement, this exact situation, be acceptable and satisfactory for you every year going forward?
I mean, it's not bad. A lot of teams have already been eliminated, and we're still in it. We very well could get in, and make a decent showing, which would be an incredibly successful year for us. Even if we don't make the tourney, heck, we've won 23 games and finished 3rd in the ACC, and we'll certainly make the NIT for some post-season fun. Many see all of that, where we are right now, with everything it entails and no matter what else happens, as a very successful year no matter what.
Are you on board with that? Is where we are right now good enough on a permanent basis going forward? Or do you want and realisticly expect more?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 10:55 AM
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Legend [17297]
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“ Clemson basketball - It’s not bad!” could be our new motto!
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Mar 11, 2023, 10:58 AM
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Maybe put it on tee shirts and hoodies? Or even a bronze statue of Coach Brownell outside Littlejohn with a plaque immortalizing those words?
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CU Guru [1487]
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"CLEMSON COMPETITIVE"***
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:02 PM
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Legend [19697]
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MVP [509]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:03 AM
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Based on expectations, I don't know who would not take 23 wins, third in conference, semifinal appearance in tournament. That's typically a four or five seed in the NCAA tournament, even with the bad losses.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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So you'd be happy even if we don't make the tourney, and
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:08 AM
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you're satisfied with still being on the bubble at this point? And you'd be satisfied with that every year?
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CU Guru [1575]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very ] |
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I don’t get when this is brought up about “expectations” based on some writers randomly putting a team somewhere in an order in the conference when clearly they are too lazy to dive into it … it’s the first thing ppl run to is “BB had over achieved based on preseason acc rankings”… which mean what? We never know how the conference is gonna shake out but based on what I saw last year and the guys that we had coming back, along with alot of games we could have won last year , there’s absolutely no way other than pure laziness that we were picked 11th, just isn’t … this is a talented/ very experienced team for the most part I think ppl look WAY into that pre season pick too much
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Athletic Dir [892]
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Legend [19697]
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It's a paradox
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:12 AM
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it was a very good year in so many ways, but quite possibly not good enough. The highs were OK, as the schedule did not provide opportunity for any real highs due to the conference mediocrity. The lows were abysmal.
The result is Brad is here next year.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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Agreed - but you'd be happy with this every year?
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:24 AM
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Being on the bubble at this point in spite of 23 wins and 3rd place? Because to me, it typifies Brownell's tenure. Pretty good, not great, not bad, real close, almost ...
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110%er [8009]
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Re: Agreed - but you'd be happy with this every year?
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:54 AM
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The Tommy Bowden comparison comes to mind. One play away. One game away. Good wins. Inexplicable losses. Almost. Never too bad. Never great.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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Exactly. When it comes to bottom line results, it's a very
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:09 PM
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fair comparison. The only difference is expectations, which feeds into support and $$$. As long as expectations are muted as they always have been, and as they remain, the results won't change significantly. At some point CLEMSON has to raise the bar.
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Legend [19697]
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Happy, unhappy, I just think it's reality
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to Agreed - but you'd be happy with this every year? ] |
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Brad is on a year to year basis if he doesn't make the tourney this year. This year, even if we aren't selected, I think the admin will see enough to carry him into next year. Next year, no tourney? Would that be the final straw? One would hope so
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Happy, unhappy, I just think it's reality
Mar 11, 2023, 12:32 PM
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You're probably right. I still hope this season is Brownell's last one.
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CU Medallion [67853]
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Re: It's a paradox- true
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to It's a paradox ] |
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lets say you want to put us in the tournament. who do you get- Wolfpack/ Duke Whippers or Cardinal/ Carolina Craterers
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All-TigerNet [13548]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:28 AM
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If this level of achievement doesn't get us into the NCAAT then no, I would not be satisfied. If you can't play for championships then what would be the point?
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All-In [44055]
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How can you expect championships when the admin and fans don’t support it accordingly?
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:19 PM
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Do Duke football fans or Boston College fans have a right to expect to play for championships? Of course not.
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All-In [28417]
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BRAD SUX***
Mar 11, 2023, 1:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [12879]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 11:29 AM
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Throw in beating usuc every year... maybe!
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110%er [5483]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:01 PM
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I expect more than the mediocrity we are at. I do not think CBB can get us there either in recruiting or coaching.
Message was edited by: lthom022®
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:23 PM
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If this had been, say, Year 4 or 5 in the program I'd be pretty dang happy.
For it to be Year 13 and have the same-old-same-old results, not at all. CBB needs to be replaced.
Sure, there's a chance the next HC hired would end up being a Larry Shyatt, that's a risk to take. Otherwise, just get used to where we are.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Exactly. If average is the standard and you are satisfied with being okay, then keep Brownell. I have higher aspirations. Look at Alabama's men's basketball program, just forget about the gun giver.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 12:49 PM
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I think it's natural to expect progression in your program no matter where you are at competitively.
Right now I want to get to the ncaa tourney more consistently, and doing better in the ACC tourney. I think we are in, and we made the semis of the ACC tourney. So good work this year.
Once we start doing that, then my expectations will be to start doing more damage in the ncaa tourney and win an acc championship.
Once we start doing that, then my expectations will continue to grow.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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When Brownell was hired, we had just made 3 consecutive
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:09 PM
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NCAA Tournaments. The next step was to win some tournament games. It took Brownell 8 years to do that, and he hasn't done it since. So there has been an undeniable regression there. So then, the question is, how long does Brownell get? He's had 13 years ... how long does he get to just get back to where we were?
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110%er [5483]
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Re: When Brownell was hired, we had just made 3 consecutive
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Mar 14, 2018, 10:00 AM
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I’ve not been shy about where my vote goes.
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1st Rounder [645]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: When Brownell was hired, we had just made 3 consecutive
Mar 11, 2023, 3:54 PM
[ in reply to When Brownell was hired, we had just made 3 consecutive ] |
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I've said this many times, but brownell was not left in a good spot by Purnell.
He had 1 good year with players and we actually won a tourney game. Purnell only had 1 commitment and he decommited when Purnell left. It was at the end of the recruiting cycle and we didn't have a freshman class. Clemson rarely has freshman come in and set the world on fire. Our program requires development. Brownell only really hit on 1 player out of 5 in his first recruiting class. His first 4 years were very tough because of the lack of talent left by Purnell, us not having 1 entire class, and Brad not hitting on his first class.
If you look at the talent that was on our team year 2, we are leaps and bounds better now.
He had to start Brian narcisse and our back up big man was catelin baciu for Christ sake.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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Purnell took what 70-84 Larry Freaking Shyatt left him
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Mar 11, 2023, 5:14 PM
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and had us a perpetual NCAA Tournament team in 5 years.
Brownell won with Purnell's players his first year, then it took him 7 years to get back to the tournament, and that was followed by 8th and 9th place finishes in the ACC.
Look, Brad Brownell is a great guy and a good coach who loves Clemson. I get why people are pulling for him; I am too. At the end of the day, however, my loyalty to Clemson is greater than to Brownell, and I want Clemson to have a better basketball program than they have had under him in his 13 years here.
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110%er [5483]
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Team Captain [496]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
Mar 11, 2023, 1:00 PM
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The short response is “ Yes”.
A deeper response is data based and is the winning season record which now is ten and counting. Lest you suggest that some of these seasons are only one game on the winning side and that that is poor, I present the following list of winning seasons
1911-12. 2 seasons
1917-21. 5
1923. 1
1929-30. 2
1933. 1
1935-36. 2
1938-39. 2
1951-52. 2
1964. 1
1966-67. 2
1974-81. 7
1985-87. 3
1989-90. 2
1993-99. 7
2003. 1
2006-12. 7
2014-23. 10
I find seventeen winning seasons in the past 18 to be acceptable. Given our historic futility this is an easy decision.
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CU Medallion [58436]
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Yet we've only finished ranked ONCE over the last 12 years.
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:16 PM
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So that "winning record" is meaningless. Unless the bar is pathetically, embarrassingly low.
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Given the cupcake schedule OOC - and combine that with the historically bad ACC - and our unbalanced schedule that did not include 2 games with Duke, UNC, uva or Miami - our record is meaningless. Finishing 3rd is nice, but again, our schedule was cushy.
To answer your question - I would rather earn our way into the tournament and not sit on the bubble every year. I could live with a down year and then being a 5 seed when we earn it. So, I want more.
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:28 PM
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Am I happy? No. After 13 years you'd think we'd be a perennial or bi-perennial NCAA tournament player. That would make the most logical sense for a coach staying this long at a school. And that's honestly where my expectations for this program are; not sitting on the bubble and hoping we get selected. I'm not asking for the impossible but a tournament run every 2-3 years should be the expectation or standard. I don't expect us to be the next UNC or Duke program off the bat but I think we could get to the program to a level of consistency like Texas perhaps? That's achievable and realistic for this program to get to one day.
Do I think Brownell will be fired? I don't know. I think he put them in a weird spot yet again with winning just enough to keep his job, even if we don't make the NCAA tournament.
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All-In [28417]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
Mar 11, 2023, 1:28 PM
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no
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1st Rounder [645]
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Re: Given exactly where Clemson basketball is at this very
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Mar 11, 2023, 1:53 PM
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So are we getting our 3rd place ACC rings presented at halftime at the NIT?
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