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Oculus Spirit [83130]
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Does our (and FSU's) suit against the ACC have any merit?
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Mar 20, 2024, 3:24 PM
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We signed the current deal in 2013 and had it amended in 2016 to include the ACC Network. All conference schools agreed to the deal, so I'm trying to grasp ways that I see where we have a shot here.
I laugh when people say it was a horrible deal in hindsight but it seemed everyone loved it when it was originally signed. I don't remember anyone speaking out against it, even the geniuses on the mange seemed 100% behind it.
It wasn't until the SEC signed a much bigger deal in 2020 with ESPN, and the Big Ten did the same with FOX/CBS/NBC that everyone saw the disparity of money.
What am I missing here?
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All-In [42907]
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The only thing I saw that might be hopeful is that if the ACC sued FSU
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Mar 20, 2024, 3:31 PM
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without consulting ACC members, then ACC can't be acting on behalf of the members. So maybe that is an out, IDK.
Other than that, I think you are correct that we are suing against a contract that we willingly signed.
It's too bad IMO. I was hoping Clemson was going to sit back and let FSU act like Cousin Eddie while we wait for the dust to settle.
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Heisman Winner [137981]
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Clemson is definitely more measured than the simps in Tallahassee,
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Mar 20, 2024, 3:42 PM
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and I have no doubt that they (we) believe that there's a legitimate case to be made for exit, and not just a "hey, this isn't fair, you need to let us out of the conference because we don't like it".
Now, what that is...I haven't followed closely enough to have an idea. But it's something, and not nothing. Probably.
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All-TigerNet [12165]
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Re: Does our (and FSU's) suit against the ACC have any merit?
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Mar 20, 2024, 3:35 PM
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One of the arguments is that the penalty for leaving is excessive, esp in regards to other conferences. I could be wrong but I think somehow the penalty has multiplied since the original agreement signed, not sure how that happened without signing off.
Another point that Clemson trying to make, ACC has media rights to Clemson games as long as Clemson is a member, ie they own all negotiations etc for a member conference, shouldn't apply if Clemson isn't a member.
Everything I hear is that there won't be a win/lose. Clemson won't get out with zero dollars. ACC doesn't want GOR document released in a trial, plus the longer drags out, the nearer it collides with ESPN's bargaining rights coming up in the next 1-2 years as far as conference payout from them. Will be a negotiation
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All-In [27151]
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It may not have merit, but it has spirit.***
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Mar 20, 2024, 3:46 PM
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110%er [7004]
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A Five Heart Legal Action, to be sure.***
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Mar 20, 2024, 4:18 PM
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110%er [7004]
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At the risk of embarassing myself, I think Clemson's suit is based on two things
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Mar 20, 2024, 4:25 PM
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1) that the language of the contracts is such that the Grant of Rights only applies while Clemson is a member of the ACC. They have asked the Court for declaratory judgment on this point (in essence, for the court to decide the correct reading of the contract). If Clemson is right about this, Clemson would regain its rights to its media should it leave the conference.
2) that the buyout/exit penalty provisions are unenforceable. I believe their argument here is based on: 1) improper negotiations by the conference/misrepresentations to the member schools by the conference; and 2) the possibility that the penalty is punitive in nature rather than a proper liquidated damages calculation. I don't know SC (or the applicable state's) law on this but there are generally limitations on what sort of damages you can get for breach of contract. I.e., If you have a contract for a sale of a 92 Taurus with a $1 million penalty for breach, that penalty probably isn't enforceable.
Disclaimers: I haven't read the lawsuit, only various reports on it. I don't know that anyone has a good grasp on the likelihood of success given that much of the relevant info was filed under seal. I would love to hear a SC lawyer's take on it.
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Oculus Spirit [83130]
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Thank you.***
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Mar 20, 2024, 4:46 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93679]
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Does our (and FSU's) suit against the ACC have any merit?
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Mar 20, 2024, 5:16 PM
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We have smart people on our Board and we hired a great law firm that one of our board members is a partner of that firm.
I promise we would not throw around huge sums of money for the law suit unless we felt our chance of winning were excellent.
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All-In [27151]
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Sounds like that firm would be a walk-on with a scholly on the Fighting Dabos.***
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Mar 20, 2024, 5:30 PM
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Oculus Spirit [79260]
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"I promise we would not throw around huge sums of money for the law suit unless
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Mar 20, 2024, 8:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Does our (and FSU's) suit against the ACC have any merit? ] |
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we felt our chance of winning were excellent"
Uh, didn't you just say the firm we hired is a firm that one of our board members is partner at? Doesn't he seem to gain financially the more we spend here on lawyers? Anyone else seeing this?
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All-In [28416]
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i sure hope so
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Mar 20, 2024, 6:16 PM
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it just seems with all the changes in conferences over the past 5 years that some sort of caveat or “get out of jail free” card must have been in effect? cannot imagine clemson was not proactive and there weren’t scenarios discussed that would allow getting out. i don’t know.
marriage is a contract and they get broken all the time. money changes hands, but folks recover. with all these changes, i hope clemson gets back the media rights and pay a less substantial fee. that acc gor is a pos.
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Lot o points [163012]
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I am convinced there is enough ambiguity and issues with these agreements
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Mar 20, 2024, 7:21 PM
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that we can win a suit or get a negotiated agreement from the conference. ACC cannot risk a lot of lawsuits, lose one and they are done - they will settle imo.
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All-In [34598]
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yes, a negotiating tool***
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Mar 20, 2024, 8:14 PM
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All-In [47799]
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enough merit to surive Rule 11 and a Motion to Dismiss
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Mar 20, 2024, 8:39 PM
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but I think it is a huge uphill battle. Based on what I know of the underlying facts (which isnt much) I'd say it has a 30% chance of success. Clemson University is a sophisticated entity with a huge legal department and competent outside counsel as well. They all signed off on the agreements.
But, as others have stated, "winning" in court isn't the real goal here...
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