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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:23 AM
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Re Cade and his future with Clemson?
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Varsity [215]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:25 AM
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He made the throws he had to. Nothing special. I’ll say this though, if DJU had been in that game we would’ve lost.
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Hall of Famer [21091]
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If Shipley would've been healthy and in that game we probably lose too
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:27 AM
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I like Shipley, but Mafah needs to be the feature back from here out.
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Athletic Dir [867]
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Re: If Shipley would've been healthy and in that game we probably lose too
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:31 AM
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See you can give constructive criticism without hating. I knew you had greatness in you.
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All-In [25008]
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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Re: Based on what?
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:54 AM
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Not throw balls in the dirt or into the stands. Cade hit several guys right in the hands. A few of which were dropped, most notably on Collins.
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Orange Blooded [2409]
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Re: Based on what?
Nov 6, 2023, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to Based on what? ] |
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Throw 5 yards in front of the receiver behind the line of scrimmage on a screen pass?
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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All-TigerNet [13530]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind ] |
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Cade is 5-5 as a starter and DJ was 22-6. DJ had issues but as we now see, he also had a lot of help but still managed to win 80% of his games. He didn't grumble about all the crap he was taking that wasn't all on him. For that alone, I give him a lot of credit and glad to see him having a solid season at OSU. He may not have all the tools but he still finds a way to win a lot of games.
I'm still hoping at some point he picks up a baseball and gives that a try but there are a lot of NFL scouts that still seem to think he deserves a shot in the NFL simply based on arm strength but I don't think he can handle that pressure.
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All-American [593]
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CU Medallion [64591]
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He's still throws into double coverage A LOT...
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:51 AM
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and the play that nearly resulted in a pick 6, he looked to me like he panicked due to the low snap and forced a ball that he should have simply thrown away.
He still needs to be smarter and make better decisions with the ball.
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All-In [29036]
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He did throw some that were quite dangerous
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:53 AM
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Oddly, the one that was intercepted was a great pass right to the receiver's hands.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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Well, Cade is what we got
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:59 AM
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and he’s 1000% better than ME ~> or YOUSE!
LOL~
He’s gonna be a polished QB by this time 2024.
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All-In [29036]
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I ain't knocking him
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Nov 6, 2023, 12:10 PM
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Not sure if that was the impression I gave.
But, there's no denying he is making some dangerous throws. I think it's likely true that with the receivers we have (or at least their current ability to get separation) and the occasionally spotty protection, if we're going to have any passing game then he is going to have to make some dangerous throws. I also think there are timing-pass play calls that he is (rightly or wrongly) almost throwing blind. It looks sometimes like he is throwing to a spot at a time, and it's worked well ons ome tight passes, and bitten us on others.
With that said, he has a bunch of upside, and I look forward to seeing his future development.
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110%er [9611]
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Re: Well, Cade is what we got
Nov 6, 2023, 1:00 PM
[ in reply to Well, Cade is what we got ] |
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Speak for yourself Bill. Back in high school I could throw a ball over a quarter mile.
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Orange Blooded [3663]
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Re: Well, Cade is what we got
Nov 7, 2023, 10:35 AM
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yea but where was the receiver?
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Scout Team [152]
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Asst Coach [719]
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Re: He's still throws into double coverage A LOT...
Nov 6, 2023, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to He's still throws into double coverage A LOT... ] |
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To be fair, he has to throw into double coverage if he’s going to throw at all. You’d think with double coverage SOMEONE would get open, but that just isn’t the case for this receiver group. Right or wrong, Cade is willing to gunsling it.
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Head Coach [752]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 11:59 AM
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No. In spite of it being a big win, there was nothing special about Cade’s performance, statistically or otherwise. That game offensively was won on the backs of the often maligned OL and the legs of Mafah. The defense obviously did quite well too.
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Legend [19586]
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Nope
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Nov 6, 2023, 12:03 PM
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He's going to end up being a great QB for Clemson and that was the case then, now and in the future. He isn't the problem with this offense.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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Cade is going to be great.
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Nov 6, 2023, 12:57 PM
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This was his best game yet. There's more to a game than stats.
ND came for him and he shot off short passes to a crossing receiver for significant gains rather than running wild, as he's done so often in the past, and throwing the ball out of bounds. He kept drives alive which kept our defense off the field and ND's on it.
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110%er [7155]
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Re: Cade is going to be great.
Nov 6, 2023, 1:31 PM
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As with you, I was very glad that the coaching staff toned down the offense for ND game so that CK2’s job was to be a game manager instead of the ‘must-be-the-hero-of-the-offense’ player.
In this toned down role as game manager, CK2 can get needed experience, learn to trust the coaches by keeping it simple instead of free-lancing plays which lead to big mistakes. His confidence and maturity will be the beneficiaries; an improved W - L record will benefit everyone.
CK2 looks to be on a good track for becoming very good on all of the mental and psychological aspects of being a QB.
My only remaining longer term concern is whether his passing accuracy will improve enough for him to truly excel as a QB. He is still far too inconsistent with his accuracy … I’m talking about situations when he isn’t scrambling for his life … to be much more than an average QB.
I’m optimistic enough about our coaching (both G.Riley + analyst Chad Morris … the QB footwork guru) to get a lot of improvement out of CK2’s accuracy.
Keep It Simple game plans for the rest of this year, along with more of the same early in 2024 season, should yield results for the team overall and for CK2 that will please everyone. Will CK2’s skills be refined enough by 2nd half of 2024 to trust opening up the playbook?
I’m confident that CK2 will truly be ready for a start-to-finish great year in 2025. Our OL will have several current starters that will be SR’s at that point. Our WR Corp should be both talented and mature by then; same with TE’s. RB’s? Who knows? In summary, there is reason to be optimistic that our offense and CK2 will be ready for the bright lights in 2025.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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His first checkdown is to crossing receivers when he's under pressure.
Nov 6, 2023, 1:43 PM
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Time those passes. He had no time in the pocket yet hit those guys on the fly. Any good rifleman can hit the bulleye at the shooting range. That doesn't mean they are good rabbit hunters.
Cade was hunting wabbits with a 22cal rifle when he hit those passes. I'm not sure people can remember that being DJ's downfall and a great portion of why we had so many 3s and outs this season. DJ could hit maybe one per game. Cade has always hit one or two but Saturday he threw many and missed few.
That is the key to him being great. He had turned that corner.
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Orange Blooded [3049]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 12:03 PM
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Not really for me. I think CK is a young player with good intelligence, physical talent and great enthusiasm. I think he can be an above average D1 QB but needs more experience and coaching.
Go Cade! Go Tigers!
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MVP [508]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
Nov 6, 2023, 12:07 PM
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No - He has been and will be our future - No Change!
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110%er [8578]
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I haven't made up my mind about Cade yet
Nov 6, 2023, 12:24 PM
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He's talented but has zero poise right now. I hope he grows a lot over the next off season.
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Oculus Spirit [93674]
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No, Cade turned the corner but he's not there yet.
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Nov 6, 2023, 12:53 PM
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I believed in the boy all along and noticed times when he was able to do things we remember TL doing. IDK how many more snaps it will take but he will be one of the better QBs in the nation sooner than later.
Dabo doesn't give up on a player until that player gives up. DJ is proof of that. Cade ain't giving up.
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110%er [7155]
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2025 season could be a big year for us
Nov 6, 2023, 1:10 PM
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CK2 is reputed to be smart, competitive, studious, and to possess fine leadership qualities, according to our coaches.
I have every reason to believe this.
It also appears that he is pretty tough; his raw speed is obvious.
With all of these characteristics, he brought them with him upon arrival in Clemson.
Coaching has greatly improved his pocket presence and poise; he was, to be blunt, simply awful in these areas last year. He is not yet where he needs to be as of late 2023, though.
Decision making has improved, clearly an outcome from good coaching. He still makes far too many bad decisions, though.
Ego management has been very slow in coming; it appears that the coaches had read him the riot act and also changed (greatly simplified) the offensive game plan. Including scrapping the RPO. Called QB runs have been minimized, which is good because CK2 isn’t strong enough to keep from fumbling if he gets hit hard. Instead of free lancing in hopes of being the hero (but ending up as the goat), he appears to be doing what he’s been told he should do.
All of the above is really good and partial reason for optimism.
Known: He doesn’t have exceptional arm strength. Therefore, really stretching the field in order to keep the opposing D-backfield from feeling comfortable playing close to the LB’s will not be something available for our offense. That isn’t a killer for our offense, however. Instead, that is something to which our coaching staff needs to (or already has) made the adjustment.
Unknown:
Accuracy. He’s only average here. Some great throws mixed in with some bad throws. Kind of like a baseball pitcher with control problems. Even pitchers who don’t have great control hit the corners on plenty of their pitches. Unfortunately, those ‘control problem’ pitchers miss the corners quite often; either walks or fat pitches are the consequence. Will he improve his control before the end of 2024? Maybe yes, maybe not. Baseball HoF’ers Greg Maddox and John Smoltz were not especially good with their control early on. They both learned, with superior pitching coaches helping them -&- experience giving them the opportunity to put that coaching into their art. Is G.Riley a good coach as far as teaching QB footwork? We know that Chad Morris (analyst) is very good witching QB’s the footwork fundamentals (refer to Taj Boyd’s tremendous improvement from 2010 to his first year under Chad Morris in 2011.
If CK2’s accuracy doesn’t improve a lot, then we won’t be winning anything big during his time here.
I think that the accuracy issue will be resolved successfully by second half of 2024 at the latest. 2025 could be a big year for us.
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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Not really. He made a few good throws but
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Nov 6, 2023, 2:10 PM
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Mafah and the defense won us the game. Cade was 13/26 for 109 yards. That's rarely going to be good enough to beat a decent team. It was today because Mafah had a big game and we finished drives with points (at least in the 1st half).
Right now Cade is on pace to put up one of the worst seasons in terms of yards per attempt in the post-option era of Clemson football. He's been statistically worse than DJ. And he hasn't added anything in the run game which is surprising to me because that looked like one of his strengths prior to this season.
I know we have alot of issues outside of Cade that are hampering him, but you can't blame everything on the OL and the WRs.
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: Not really. He made a few good throws but
Nov 6, 2023, 2:42 PM
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1. Look at the passing stats of Notre Dame's other opponents. Cade's numbers weren't that bad. There's a reason Caleb Williams completed 50% of his passes and had 3 picks against them, despite having much better weapons. Notre Dame has a top 5 passing defense. Cade played bad, but no one has played well, and McCord and Plummer are the only two who were average against that defense.
2. He has not been statistically worse than DJ. Cade is averaging 6.4 ypa. In 2020, DJ averaged 6.0. In 2021, DJ averaged 5.7 after the first four games.
Cade hasn't been particularly good, but you're factually wrong. And yes, you can absolutely put blame on a bad offensive line and receiving corp. A QB can't do anything without a good line/receivers. Look at Russel Wilson's stats this year. They're bad, because he doesn't have weapons around him. Tua and Sam Howell are currently blowing both Burrow and Trevor out of the water in every statistic. Do you really think Howell is better, or could it be the talent their teams brought in?
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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DJ was 7.8 - 6.0 - 6.8 in his 3 years here. 6.6 average at Clemson
Nov 6, 2023, 4:19 PM
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Cade is at 6.4 this year and 6.6 overall as well. Passing numbers are obviously close but DJ, shockingly, added more in the running game than Cade has.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Not really. He made a few good throws but
Nov 7, 2023, 11:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Not really. He made a few good throws but ] |
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That's a good point about ND's pass defense.
OTOH, Cade has yet to have a really good game this year
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 2:25 PM
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No. I think Cade is a good QB. He's not DW or TL, but he could be someone we speak of highly like Tajh Boyd if he gets talent around him. Cade was pretty bad. 50% completions for 109 yards, 1 TD, a 1 pick. But Notre Dame's passing defense is absurdly good. His numbers look remarkably similar to Caleb Williams' or Riley Leonard's. Only McCord did much better than him, but McCord has about 7 or 8 receivers who would start for us. If Cade gets that one great receiver to take the top off the defense and draw double teams, I think he'll still be great.
What I changed my mind about was the offensive line. I gave a prediction of the game in another thread. I was right about pretty much everything, but I said Notre Dame's defensive weakness were C gap and off-tackle runs, but that I didn't think our offensive line would open holes or that our backs would be able to capitalize on them. Our offensive line played with grit I hadn't seen since 2019. It showed me there is something there, and that's the real key to how successful we'll be the rest of the year and next year.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
Nov 7, 2023, 11:15 AM
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Cade is nowhere near as good as Tahj Boyd - yet
He may grow into that comparison - but he certainly may not as well.
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All-In [27190]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 3:54 PM
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Nope. He still has the "high school hero" impulse that is proving very costly. That sack he took on 3rd down was completely unnecessary. Instead of simply throwing it out of bounds, he tried to scramble.
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Orange Blooded [4660]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
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Nov 6, 2023, 4:14 PM
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On Cade? Nope. Another 47 QBR game, another interception, still averaging 4.2 yards per pass and completing half his throws.
On Mafah? Absolutely. Dude’s stock went so far up. He was running fast and making great cuts when opportunities arose.
And whomever was substituting in for hurt OL across the board - they should be starting because we haven’t seen push back in the trenches like that all year.
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Athletic Dir [884]
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Re: Did the ND game change anyones mind
Nov 6, 2023, 4:00 AM
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For those knocking his accuracy, hear me out.
We don't know how long he's been nursing that "lower leg injury". It's killing his footwork. What I do know is he has dropped some absolute dimes down the field and into crazy tight windows. That throw throw in the endzone to Briningstool that he couldn't hang on to Saturday was one. Once he gets healthy, his footwork will get better and he needs to really work on that in the offseason. He also needs every in-game rep he can get so the game slows down. It's still really fast for him. You can tell b/c he forces throws on the 2nd read if #1 is covered and he can't even get to #3. More reps and better footwork and he'll be fine.
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