|
Replies: 27
| visibility 351
|
Orange Blooded [4071]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4388
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Did democrats commit a strategic unforced error?
2
Oct 5, 2023, 9:26 AM
|
|
Conventional wisdom says to let the Republicans fall into disarray. Also, I’m sure it feels good for them to watch the Republicans squirm.
I submit that it’s a case of choosing instant gratification over long term gain.
McCarthy was never going to be a strong speaker because of the dissension in his ranks and the Democrats were in relatively good spot for a Minority Party. A republican speaker from California who can’t amass any power - not bad, right?
Now they run the risk of the Republicans selecting a speaker that wields a hammer and consolidates the party and the potential power in the speakership.
I think the Democrats will ultimately regret their decision. They just couldn’t help themselves. I think the real durable chaos would have been letting Gaetz and his crew undercut and undermine McCarthy and the house leadership for another year.
The next speaker is going to deliver a knockout blow to Gaetz - guaranteed
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [12309]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5418
Joined: 9/12/04
|
A couple of good OPEDS on this...
1
Oct 5, 2023, 9:39 AM
|
|
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/the-reckless-alliance-that-deposed-mccarthy The reckless alliance that deposed McCarthy Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) is a bombastic attention seeker who has put his name into national headlines by leading a rebellion that toppled Rep. Kevin McCarthy's (R-CA) speakership. It was he who filed the motion to vacate the chair, and regrettably, a few Republicans and every Democrat followed his lead. That seven other Republicans allied with him to throw the House into chaos at a time when it should be, and was, passing appropriations bills was reckless.
and I'm sure Newt Gingrich's thoughts towards Gaetz are indicative of how others in the House Republican caucus feel. Would not be surprised to see Gaetz getting a lashing sometime down the road by his Republican peers:
Washington Post Opinion
Newt Gingrich: Republicans must expel Matt Gaetz
By Newt Gingrich
Updated October 3, 2023 at 4:52 p.m. EDT|Published October 3, 2023 at 12:23 p.m. EDT
Newt Gingrich, a Republican from Georgia, was speaker of the House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999.
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) is an anti-Republican who has become actively destructive to the conservative movement.
Drama has filled the halls of Congress for 234 years. Bringing together a group of 435 strong-willed personalities guarantees conflict, and it has always been a tumultuous body. But some behavior crosses the line — and when it does, there has to be consequences.
Gaetz obviously hates House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) — and that’s fine. If Gaetz were simply a loudmouthed junior member who attacked McCarthy every day, that would be fine, too. He would just be isolated with a small group of lawmakers who can’t figure out how to get things done. They’d huddle together seeking warmth and reassurance from their fellow incompetents.
But Gaetz has gone beyond regular drama. He is destroying the House GOP’s ability to govern and draw a sharp contrast with the policy disasters of the Biden administration.
Former House speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.), a liberal Democrat with whom I disagree on almost everything, perfectly captured Gaetz’s childish behavior in an interview with CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday. Gaetz “has no sway” or influence in Congress, Pelosi said, “except to get on TV and to raise money on the internet.” Pelosi told Tapper he was “wasting [his] time on that guy.”
This week, McCarthy and House Republicans should be focused on cutting spending in appropriations bills. Republicans should be focused on advancing their impeachment inquiry into President Biden. They should be pursuing and amplifying immigration policy changes to address the wildly out-of-control southern border.
Instead of taking these positive steps — which would help move the conservative agenda forward — Gaetz has been egocentrically going from TV show to TV show and attacking his own party by repeatedly threatening to bring a motion to oust McCarthy as speaker, which he did late Monday.
Furthermore, Gaetz is violating the House Republican Conference rule that states the motion to vacate “should only be available with the agreement of the Republican Conference so as to not allow Democrats to choose the Speaker.” The agreement made when McCarthy became speaker doesn’t supersede the conference rules. Gaetz still needs a majority of the conference.
Gaetz knows he can’t possibly get a majority of the House GOP conference to his side. He is simply violating the rules in the pursuit of personal attention and fundraising — just like Pelosi said.
I served 20 years in the House, including four as speaker. On occasion, I fought against the GOP establishment. I led the fight against President George H.W. Bush’s 1990 tax increase after he had broken his word about “no new taxes.” I felt bound to stay with my commitment to the American voters.
Unlike Gaetz, though, when I rebelled, I represented the majority view of the caucus at the time.
Gaetz’s motion to remove McCarthy should have been swiftly defeated, but it wasn’t; he should still be expelled from the House Republican Conference. House Republicans have far more important things to do than entertain one member’s ego.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7302]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9837
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: A couple of good OPEDS on this...
Oct 6, 2023, 12:25 AM
|
|
From what I’ve observed about Matt Gaetz, he is a political opportunist.
M.Gaetz was a big supporter of the quintessential establishment / RINO Republican candidate Jeb Bush in 2015 FL POTUS primary (naturally enough, I suppose, since he was in FL legislature back then).
When ‘low energy Jeb’ got swept away by the populist Trump, M.Gaetz made a convenient philosophical ‘transition’ to become a vociferous Trump supporter.
Gaetz’s back and forth political philosophy differences with Ron DeSantis seems to me to be more about Gaetz’s front-running; when DeSantis looked strong in his battle with Disney, Gaetz (who by this time was in USA HoR) was supportive. When Disney started whooping DeSantis’ rear end, Gaetz drifted away with while launching shots at DeSantis.
To summarize, I view M.Gaetz more as a political careerist than a political philosophical thought leaders. I’d love to see him get primaried out of office in 2024, but I can’t imagine this actually happening. He’d be fine staying in the US HoR as long as he was tied and gagged. OK if he votes on bills, but nothing else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7279]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9511
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Lol
2
Oct 5, 2023, 10:33 AM
|
|
The chances of a republican speaker herding these 200 cats is about the same as winning the powerball. So far, nobody has even thrown their name in the ring who stands a chance. Who we got so far? Gym Jordan and Scalise? Good luck with that.
Instead of laughably making this about dems, maybe concentrate on the fact that McCarthy made a deal that let somebody like Gaetz call the vote. Knowing this, maybe he should have made the smallest effort to win some dem votes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20571]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11714
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: Lol
Oct 5, 2023, 10:52 AM
|
|
I agree, mostly because I just do not see the GOP remaining united in the face of MAGA insanity. The problem with the lunatics is, they're lunatics. They haven't shown the slightest indication they're interested in governing. They haven't even shown the slightest interest in politics per se. What they seem entirely, 100% aboutt is the spectacle, the show, of getting cameras pointed at them and being the stars of their own narcissistic fantasies. Their lives seem to be one giant social media thread.
Performative populism was sort of made for a clickbait-hungry Internet, but performative populism also has one move and only one: throw bombs for no reason other than because it makes a loud bang and makes people look.
How do you cut a deal with that? Chaos for its own sake isn't a political party. It isn't even a movement. There's no deal possible that will stop the lunatics from being bomb-throwing lunatics. That's what they're there to do: burn it all down.
The GOP would seem to have two choices now and only two: recognize there's no deal possible and cut a deal with enough Dems they can cobble together a governing coalition, or descend into squabbling lunacy that will stretch to the '24 elections...at which point they'll likely lose 50+ seats.
Unless we're betting the likes of Gaetz and Boebert and the other bomb-throwers are suddenly going to come to their senses. Does anybody see that happening?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [46925]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30804
Joined: 8/11/15
|
You had me up until where pubs lose 50+ seats
Oct 5, 2023, 11:01 AM
|
|
you obviously don't live amongst these mouth breathers. The cult process is fully complete. They know they can do insane #### because they WILL NOT LOSE A SINGLE VOTE.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20571]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11714
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: You had me up until where pubs lose 50+ seats
Oct 5, 2023, 11:11 AM
|
|
The ones on the far right can't, certainly. In a deep-red district, the far right runs things and right-leaning MAGA populists get sent to Washington to burn everything down. The crazier you act, the better your voters like you.
The ones in the purpler districts have a very different problem - crazy doesn't play where there's enough non-crazy voters they won't go for the lunatic. I'm living in Ohio 9 at the moment - Northeast Ohio, which was represented by Marcy Kaptur, who is up there with Nancy Pelosi for one of the longest-serving members of Congress. But the GOP gerrymandered the crap out of this district, which should have put it about R+7, and a Republican should have walked off with the win. But the GOP nominated this wingnut, who openly advocated for the secession of red states, lied about his military record and claimed to have served in Afghanistan when he hadn't, and painted his yard up so garishly you could literally see it from outer space. I do not kid.
Kaptur kept her seat and put an absolute beatdown on the loon. She won by eight points...in a gerrymandered R+7 district.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7302]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9837
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: You had me up until where pubs lose 50+ seats
Oct 5, 2023, 11:21 PM
|
|
Here is where your premise about ‘far right’ voters being committed to ‘wingnut’ showboat Republican congressional candidates falls apart.
You cite the 2022 midterm as a kind of proof that new candidate Republicans who reject the establishment Republican lapdogs are incapable of making adjustments.
B.S. Quite the contrary, the MAGA voters so desperately reviled by the small minority of people who economically benefit from an increasingly ‘entitled’ taxpayer funded public service sector are the voters who actually make adjustments according to the performance of incumbent politicians.
When that performance is bad, the MAGA voter will vote out (via the primary) of the incumbent or ‘establishment’ candidate.
In the case of OH-9, the MAGA candidate lost. Later, he, like George Santos, was revealed as a phony. Guess what? The MAGA voters will make the adjustment. Other contenders in the 2022 primary for the Republican candidacy will get consideration with more knowledge about each candidate in 2024 than the info that was available in 2022. New contenders from the Republican side will also enter the competition via the primary process. The MAGA voters will still have their same ideals, but will have learned better about how to identify phonies and how to vet the other candidates.
This represents mental agility and, in complete opposition to your thesis, a departure from the ‘cult of personality’ which has attracted sheep-like voters to re-elect their incumbent congressional representatives again and again and again.
Democrat voters are infamous for their unceasing fealty to HoR and Senate members because they ‘act nice’ and regurgitate tried & true sound bites. Lazy and comfortable Republican voters? They do the same with their typically self-serving Senator and HoR incumbent candidates.
Yes, sadly, many Republican voters are sheep … same specie as the Democrat sheep, but with different grade of wool.
It was absolutely worthwhile for the Republicans voters to purge their party of many useless establishment do-nothing incumbents. The general election process eliminated nearly all of the ‘wingnut’ Republican candidates from reaching office. Republicans took the HoR in a close margin. Americans are far better off with a close margin of victory in the HoR with the Republican contingent being earnest elected representatives instead of Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger phonies.
For the 2024 election, the improved quality of MAGA candidates will be much stronger and more refined overall. The proof of this statement will be revealed when the Republicans capture another ~ 20 additional seats in the HoR and another ~ 5 seats in the Senate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7279]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9511
Joined: 12/18/13
|
It wouldn't take much.
1
Oct 5, 2023, 11:19 AM
[ in reply to Re: Lol ] |
|
Given the alternatives, I think all that it would take is a credible candidate who promises to fund the government and back aid to Ukraine, and they'd get some dem votes. Does any such house republican exist though? So far only in theory. Also, I think there are like 11 legitimately vulnerable pubs in 2024 which would still easily flip the house.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20571]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11714
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: It wouldn't take much.
Oct 5, 2023, 11:28 AM
|
|
So there's 221 serving Republicans in the house, 212 serving Dems. In theory, all it would take is one Nancy Mace type to convince four of her fellow centrists to back her, and she can cut a deal with the Dems to make herself Speaker. And she'd win 217-216.
I am morally certain that has occurred to more than one of the Pubs in purple districts. The longer the squabble goes on, you'd think it's almost inevitable at least one of them will go for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7279]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9511
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Did you just call Nancy Mace a centrist?***
Oct 5, 2023, 12:08 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20571]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11714
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: Did you just call Nancy Mace a centrist?***
Oct 5, 2023, 2:14 PM
|
|
LOL. It's relative.
Our perspective has definitely changed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42472]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38506
Joined: 11/30/98
|
First, have you figured out how the SOTH election works yet?***
Oct 5, 2023, 10:57 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4071]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4388
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: First, have you figured out how the SOTH election works yet?***
1
Oct 5, 2023, 11:15 AM
|
|
No.
Since you’re a liberal and you are smarter than everyone else, why don’t you explain it to the rest of us idiots?
And here is a challenge - do it in your own words without a reference to Wikipedia!
I’d recommend a going to a trendy over priced coffee shop and a tall glass of hard kombucha juice to get those liberal brain waves clicking on all cylinders (or whatever your the Chevy volt you traded in for your Tesla uses to get up to speed)
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31950]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37224
Joined: 11/22/03
|
Why would you think he's a liberal?***
Oct 5, 2023, 11:17 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42472]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38506
Joined: 11/30/98
|
No, no, no, Flow
Oct 5, 2023, 11:19 AM
|
|
According to him, I'm a "libtard".
Because I don't agree with him. And I guess cause I know things.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42472]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38506
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Yeah, it seems like a difficult concept for you
Oct 5, 2023, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: First, have you figured out how the SOTH election works yet?*** ] |
|
Being able to look up and understand information, and also having a good knowledge of how our government works, doesn't make one a liberal.
And here is a challenge - do it in your own words without a reference to Wikipedia!
Sure. Here you go. Ready?
Anyone in the House can run for SOTH. Anyone. It's an open election. You claimed it wasn't.
I’d recommend a going to a trendy over priced coffee shop and a tall glass of hard kombucha juice to get those liberal brain waves clicking on all cylinders (or whatever your the Chevy volt you traded in for your Tesla uses to get up to speed)
Oh, no, being smarter than you just comes naturally. No extra effort. I see why you start with your threads with "hey libtards"... you're overcompensating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4071]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4388
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: Yeah, it seems like a difficult concept for you
1
Oct 5, 2023, 12:36 PM
|
|
Candidly, I’m unimpressed…
I was expecting lots of big words & stuff. Maybe your not as liberal as I thought…
Does your neck hurt sometimes? Holding up that big ole brain and all?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42472]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38506
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Yeah, it seems like a difficult concept for you
Oct 5, 2023, 12:38 PM
|
|
Does your neck hurt sometimes? Holding up that big ole brain and all?
Only when I have to use "you're" properly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4071]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4388
Joined: 10/6/03
|
Re: Yeah, it seems like a difficult concept for you
1
Oct 5, 2023, 12:44 PM
|
|
You are definitely that type of person and you wear it well
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4024]
TigerPulse: 68%
Posts: 8104
Joined: 12/9/01
|
Re: Yeah, it seems like a difficult concept for you
Oct 5, 2023, 2:31 PM
|
|
You've gotten pimp slapped 2 days in a row by Cat. I'm looking 4ward to see if that streak gets extended to 3.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [25000]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42880
Joined: 7/31/10
|
You got the "pimp" part right... Are you in his stable?***
1
Oct 5, 2023, 2:41 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [42472]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38506
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Did I just get called a pimp on this board?!
1
Oct 5, 2023, 2:45 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7279]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9511
Joined: 12/18/13
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [25000]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42880
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Good pic... Never knew what he looked like.***
1
Oct 5, 2023, 2:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4071]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4388
Joined: 10/6/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [31950]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37224
Joined: 11/22/03
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7302]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9837
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: First, have you figured out how the SOTH election works yet?***
Oct 5, 2023, 11:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: First, have you figured out how the SOTH election works yet?*** ] |
|
The US HoR got a lesson in how the minority party can wield influence over who the majority party picks as they’re SOTH from the State of Texas legislature.
In TX, the Democrat Party is totally outgunned; Democrats in the TX House are far far from being in the majority.
The TX House Republicans, on the other hand, are split between the Bush family loyalists and the ascendant MAGA newbies. The Bush family Republican loyalists far outnumber the MAGA Republican House members … for now.
When electing the Speaker of the House, the Bush Republicans … predictably enough … enlist support from the TX Democrats in the House in order to get a Bush Republican into the role as Speaker of the House.
FWIW, very recently the TX House speaker (a Bush Republican) was booted out for being smashed while presiding over the TX House. These establishment Republicans in TX are same as establishment Republicans everywhere: Useless.
How does this get fixed? State of TX voters, who now understand that their cliche laden Bush Republicans have not been serving the best interests of TX voters, are mobilizing to boot out a bunch of Bush Republicans in the 2024 primaries.
When this is accomplished, then the TX House Democrats will see their influence in TX policy initiatives descend to where it belongs.
(*). THIS is why the USA’s voters must purge the Republican Party of the cliche riddled Uniparty incumbents in the primaries and choose new blood to represent the voters best interests. Utah has sent this message to M.Romney. TX is likely to have a strong challenger to oppose J.Cornyn in the 2026 primary. SC senator L.Graham is very likely to face a serious challenger in 2026 primary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 351
|
|
|
50
