|
Replies: 31
| visibility 2,001
|
Editor [∞]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43509
Joined: 12/12/12
|
TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
2
Jan 8, 2024, 7:00 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Freshman [-41]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 592
Joined: 1/24/16
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
1
Jan 8, 2024, 7:13 AM
|
|
Let’s not kid ourselves, depth grade for QB is C? Really? That’s news to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1469]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 811
Joined: 9/28/08
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 7:32 AM
|
|
Our WR corps are C+? That means better than average? maybe I missed something last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
4
Jan 8, 2024, 9:07 AM
|
|
I wasn't an engineer where classes are so hard that C is average. Anything below a B was always unacceptable for me per my parents.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [48374]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14946
Joined: 11/7/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
Jan 8, 2024, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense ] |
|
The WR weren't nearly as bad as they were portrayed. Not grading beaux since he's no longer a part of the team. Stellato made some beautiful catches and there were times he (and Randall) held wonderful inside leverage on slants and digs that Cade either didn't see, or more importantly didn't anticipate. Small window for timing and imo, Cade would wait a second too late to throw it. By that time, it made it look like said receivers couldn't get separated.
It's almost like Cade is so afraid to make a mistake that he freezes. I'm optimistic our freshman WR s will help give Cade the confidence needed to throw. And that Dabo will truly let Vizz push him. Don't sell Ronan short either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17633]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14169
Joined: 10/24/10
|
Cade's "afraid to make mistakes" freeze
1
Jan 8, 2024, 6:57 PM
|
|
The WR weren't nearly as bad as they were portrayed. Not grading beaux since he's no longer a part of the team. Stellato made some beautiful catches and there were times he (and Randall) held wonderful inside leverage on slants and digs that Cade either didn't see, or more importantly didn't anticipate. Small window for timing and imo, Cade would wait a second too late to throw it. By that time, it made it look like said receivers couldn't get separated.
It's almost like Cade is so afraid to make a mistake that he freezes. I'm optimistic our freshman WR s will help give Cade the confidence needed to throw. And that Dabo will truly let Vizz push him. Don't sell Ronan short either.
is something he must overcome and has a lot to do with Dabo and Garrett Riley development of Klubnik. I believe we see significant improvement in 2024.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [66]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 59
Joined: 11/25/22
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 7:32 AM
|
|
No cotton candy this time. It didn’t taste too good after the Duke game last year!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Starter [378]
TigerPulse: 54%
Posts: 505
Joined: 12/25/02
|
Rating changes
1
2
Jan 8, 2024, 7:54 AM
|
|
QB Star Power should be a B- or C+. CK2 has problems reading the defense, puts the ball in harms way too often and has ball security issues
OL Depth should also be more like a D. if the depth is great, why is the OL still bad? a lot of bad doesnt equal good depth unless our OL is allowed to be 10 bodies at a time
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: Rating changes
2
Jan 8, 2024, 9:08 AM
|
|
This is so funny. I was skeptical about this team much of the year and so many on these boards were mad at me even though the team ended up going 9-4. Now, I'm marginally more optimistic for 2024 and folks think I'm being pollyannish and too nice. Can't win!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17633]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14169
Joined: 10/24/10
|
Re: Rating changes
1
Jan 8, 2024, 7:06 PM
|
|
This is so funny. I was skeptical about this team much of the year and so many on these boards were mad at me even though the team ended up going 9-4. Now, I'm marginally more optimistic for 2024 and folks think I'm being pollyannish and too nice. Can't win!
@Ryan_Kantor® ... Appreciate your honest skepticism and grades -- sometimes you have to split the difference.
IMHO, only the o-line depth grade of "A" is "pollyannish". With your accurate o-line talent level assessment of "F" (and 2023 departures will not be missed), how do you grade depth as as "A" when backups must be an F to backup our "F" rated starters?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [55433]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58433
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
3
Jan 8, 2024, 8:29 AM
|
|
I'm personally going to be optimistic of our O line with Matt Luke as the OL coach. Hopefully with him having a healthy O line group of 4 and 5 star guys with all having what little experience that Thomas Austin was able to coach up in them. If Matt Luke can coach an O L up to being what's been said about him as an O L coach, we should see one of the best O L's as we've seen at Clemson in a long long time bc the talent will be there for him to get the job done with our O L... Go Luke, Go O line, GOOO Tigers 2024!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mascot [24]
TigerPulse: 29%
Posts: 61
Joined: 1/12/14
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
2
Jan 8, 2024, 8:45 AM
|
|
the key appears to be Luke’s ability to recruit/develop talented OL-depth and number of reps are insignicant-you still have marginally talented players with more experience/reps!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [310]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 495
Joined: 11/7/22
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
Jan 8, 2024, 9:05 AM
|
|
Move along coot
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [18306]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7029
Joined: 10/15/21
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense***
1
Jan 8, 2024, 8:48 AM
|
|
It’s over let’s cancel the season already
Message was edited by: Mjc3194®
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9032]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7380
Joined: 4/9/11
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 8:58 AM
|
|
I'm pretty optimistic. I think #7 is going to be a star this season. Pair him with the youngsters and we'll have some legit rushing threats - and I bet CK and the receivers will make a good step forward.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [409]
TigerPulse: 65%
Posts: 601
Joined: 5/18/18
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
2
Jan 8, 2024, 9:08 AM
|
|
Ryan Kantor was extremely generous in his grading. I'd have given the whole offense an
" F ". The only positive thing I see about this offense is the hiring of Coach Luke as the new OLine coach. Wasn't really impressed with Garrett Riley even before the season. His TCU offense looked liked garbage against UGA in the CFB championship game. The Oline play was horrible, pedestrian WRs and inconsistent RB play (not running the ball but pass protection was pathetic). I try being optimistic about Cade but I just don't see it. The lack of arm strength and erratic play is going to take more than one off season to correct to the level needed to win cfb championship. IMO!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
3
Jan 8, 2024, 9:11 AM
|
|
Remember this is 2024 outlook not 2023 grades.
Riley is an elite OC. I'm a believer. WR got a little better and should improve next year even though I was really hoping for an impact WR on the outside. Stellato is open a lot of Cade doesn't see him. Mafah may really thrive as the lead-back. I have no concerns there. TE could improve with experience. OL now has an elite position coach to develop them.
Better luck and more experience should make the offense a little better. Cade is going to have to take the next step for this offense to be a lot better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6968]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4346
Joined: 1/26/10
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 9:12 AM
|
|
So Mafah is definitely staying?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2763]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1981
Joined: 8/23/12
|
Deadline to declare is the 15th
2
Jan 8, 2024, 10:54 AM
|
|
so we'll find out for sure in a week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6968]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4346
Joined: 1/26/10
|
Re: Deadline to declare is the 15th
1
Jan 8, 2024, 11:27 AM
|
|
Okay thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8539]
TigerPulse: 48%
Posts: 11520
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
2
Jan 8, 2024, 9:30 AM
|
|
I don't get the love for the running backs. No way the star power is an A for an inexperienced and unproven group outside of Mahfa. The better way to say it might be star potential is a B but with the condition that the line grades at least a C. Running and passing does not start with the RB or QB, they start with the OL.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Walk-On [130]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 98
Joined: 5/5/19
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 11:35 AM
|
|
Excellent early read on our offense, Ryan. All of us read about these young men, and see them in their video interviews on Tigernet, and we hope they will date our daughters and join our companies after college. But (there’s always a”but”), watch the national championship game tonight and ask yourself if we have ANY players as good as the ones on Washington and Michigan.
In fact, have we had any players that good since we won our last championship? Also, if you followed the news about recruiting and portal signings this winter, you saw teams loading up. But not us.
The college game has changed dramatically in the last three years. Dabo—who is a great head coach—is trying to adjust to that reality without turning Clemson into a soulless, money-comes-first minor league team for the NFL. Not sure that is possible because of the unregulated power of NIL and the blatant tampering in the portal. (Texas is paying $50,000 annual salaries to their offensive line players!)!
But Dabo and the Clemson football program deserve our support. Win or lose, they make us proud in a new era of college football that may one day be described as sleazy.
Go Tigers—forever!
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 1:21 PM
|
|
Is every offensive position group for 2024 worse than every one from 2016? Probably, but are they all improved from 2023, highly likely. Enough to get us into the 12-team playoff, probably.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense ] |
|
Mafah is the star and if you believe in him as much as I do, you gave it an A. He could be a 1,000 yard rusher. In fact, I expect it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4947]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6981
Joined: 10/12/06
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
2
Jan 8, 2024, 11:48 AM
|
|
Overall it is a fair outlook. Interested how your A-F grading would equate to offensive rank or yards/game. From 2015 - 2019 Clemson was one of only two teams to regularly feature in both top 10 in total offense and defense. Typically playoff teams are top 5/10 on one side of the ball and top 30 on the other. This year none of the playoff teams are top 10 in both. If our defense remains top 10 we need to reach a top 20-30 offense to challenge for a national championship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1940]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 2282
Joined: 1/13/18
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 11:54 AM
|
|
Guys, don't give up on Cole Turner. We had our own Shipleys. The eldest was Jordan and he signed out of Burnet, Texas and was instantly injured and missed his first season. He was injured again before his second season and the fan base had given up on him. After that, he was never injured again and played 4 seasons and is our all time leading receiver.
Who knows, maybe Cole Turner comes on and has a great career at Clemson. One can hope, for his sake and yours.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6397]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3906
Joined: 12/4/18
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
2
Jan 8, 2024, 11:57 AM
|
|
Pretty much agree with everything.
Every offensive position group should be improved in 2024 compared to 2023.
Unless Cade makes really significant strides, this won't be a top 10 offense next year. It likely won't be good enough to make up for the dip that the defense will take. The season rests entirely on his shoulders.
I'm cautiously optimistic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [513]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 158
Joined: 7/12/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 2:13 PM
|
|
LeonTrotsky
A lot of truth to that. If QB play remains the same, the offense still gets better, but not enough to overcome potential defense regression.
Clemson has some tough/potentially tough games next year:
Georgia (Atlanta)
at VT
at FSU
at Pitt
Louisville
NC State
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [302]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 168
Joined: 5/29/20
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 12:44 PM
|
|
Pretty much agree with this assessment. However, I would also throw in a rating on our play-calling...which in my humble opinion has been a major weakness. Not sure who is calling the plays... the OC? The head coach? A combination of the two? Who knows! However it has become far too predictable. For example, you can count on a bunched WR screen at least once each possession. Need a yard...RB run between tackles. Ever notice how successful we were on our rare deep passes downfield? That was because the defense wasn't expecting it. Remember the games in the past that the opening play was a deep shot downfield? Even if they weren't successful, at least they let our opponent know we were willing to do so! I miss those days!
As I write this, I have the advantage of having seen TJ Moore excel in the All America Bowl. He was awesome and will surely give us a much-needed weapon to take the top off most defenses. We just need our play-calling to give him the opportunity to do so! Go Tigers!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [707]
TigerPulse: 77%
Posts: 1266
Joined: 11/25/22
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 1:10 PM
|
|
Honestly, I laughed out loud about the line grades. F star power but A depth. So we suck, but all our guys suck about the same. It is true that we have 10-11 guys who could run out there and it be about the same.
Wide receiver at C+ seems a stretch. I get you're saying that slightly below average, but not having a single guy who can take the top off of a defense, so you never throw the ball 10+ yards downfield is rough. I'd say a D there.
I think QB is underrated for both. Cade's had growing pains without talent surrounding him, but the kid was the #1 QB out of high school and the winner of the Elite 11. He didn't vanish. If the offensive line and receiver play improves, he'll get a lot better. And while I don't think Vizzina is capable of being a starting QB, he did go to the Elite 11 and was a high-ranked 4 star. I think he's in the upper tier of backup QBs. No team can win with a 3rd string QB, but we could do worse than Pearman. I'd say A- Star power and B+ depth.
I agree with you on running back. Mafah was our best player this year (Brown was good too). If UGA or Alabama had him, everyone would know his name. I personally like Haynes, but think your depth grade is fair.
I could nit pick your TE ratings, but I agree Briningstool is not the star we've had in the past and losing Sage hurts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3336]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2847
Joined: 7/10/11
|
Re: TNET: Early 2024 Clemson roster analysis: Offense
1
Jan 8, 2024, 1:36 PM
|
|
I'm cautiously optimistic for next year. I do think we will much improved. But does that mean we will be great? I don't know. I'm confident the o-line will be much better under Luke. I mean, how couldn't they be? They were abysmal at many points this year. I think the line improves to probably an average unit under year 1 of Luke. I just keep looking at this WR unit and I'm just wondering who is going to take that step and be The Guy? The receivers are where I'm pessimistic until proven otherwise.
If we can get into the top 30 offenses, that'll be a victory and step into the right direction in my book.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7238]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3468
Joined: 7/27/13
|
I DISAGREE
Jan 9, 2024, 6:12 AM
|
|
The Defense will not take a step back. Many of the younger players who saw action this year played extremely well for their first couple of appearances. The Defensive Backs and Line Backer Corps will be deep with talent and the line has a bunch of big violent bodies to create chaos upfront. We will be fine on Defense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 31
| visibility 2,001
|
|
|
50
