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Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Replies: 56
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:37 PM
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It is very clear that the direction we are headed is for the SEC and B1G to break away from everyone else and set up their own group for playing big time college football. (Dabo, "We all know how this is going to end up.")
Well, all those outside schools need to be very careful. I'll use FSU as the example because of what happened this year, but next year it could be Clemson or UNC or anyone else.
FSU can't blame the SEC. They can't blast Greg Sankey. They can't talk about Michigan not being punished for cheating. They can't say antying negative about SEC or B1G.
It is clear that those two conferences don't need to expand. They are set, as they are now, for a 12 team playoff. 10 of the 12 teams, if there were 12 teams this year, would be from those two. In a few years, they can set the system so that there are no automatic bids, just pick the 12 best teams. When they do, all 12 can come from those 2 conferences.
FSU desperately needs to get into one of those two conferences. FSU has to "suck up" to those two conferences. They can't do anything to tick either conference off. Somehow, they have to figure out a way that they can convince one of those two conferences to take them immediately, not in 4 or 5 years. They have to figure out a way to convince ESPN to let them out of the GOR or figure out a way to pay for it.
Tough row to hoe. But, the message is clear. If you ain't in the P2, you ain't nowhere.
I'm sure the athletic big guys at FSU (and Clemson and others) can see the handwriting on the wall and are working as I type to find a way to convince one of the P2 to get them into that conference ASAP.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:41 PM
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They expect "style points" by leaving your starters in the whole game while SIMULTANESOULY expecting those starters to now avoid injuries despite the increased targets on their backs. What this committee has done is criminal.
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110%er [7024]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:42 PM
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I agree with this sentiment. This was not just a slight directed at Florida State, it was a death blow to the entire conference and every team that comprises it
That being said, I find it nauseating knowing we would have to suck up to the SEC which is basically the "system" itself . I think I'd rather land in the BIG to fight that dirty ### conference
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Orange Blooded [3005]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:17 PM
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Right there with you. I would like to continue to be the SECs kryptonite in the playoffs.
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Associate AD [840]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 7:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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“… This was not just a slight directed at Florida State, it was a death blow to the entire conference and every team that comprises it”
-> “… This was not just a slight directed at Florida State, it was a death blow to the entire conference and every team that it comprises”
“Comprise” is like “contain,” without a figurative container.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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The two conferences are one.
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Dec 4, 2023, 8:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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They are working together. This is not the old AFL vs. NFL where one conference is trying to destory the other. This is more like the NFL vs. the USFL in the 90s.
SEC and B1G are the American and National conferences of the NFL. The ACC, Big 12 and G5 are the USFL.
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:44 PM
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Yep, the message is clear. It's the Power 2 and everybody else. Clemson, FSU, and any other program that wants to compete at the highest level need to leave this dead conference ASAP. It's mind-boggling that NC State's AD, Boo Corrigan, just help to deliver the death blow to the ACC.
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All-In [25834]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:51 PM
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He is not the first ACC AD to deliver the death blow to the ACC. Every AD who thought that 30 year GOR contract was the greatest thing since sliced bread, killed the conference. No clause in the contract to renegotiate due to inflation and these clowns are supposed to be smart?
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:45 PM
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Clemson and FSU to the Big 10 makes more sense from expanding the recruiting footprint standpoint.
Why would they let us out of the GOR is the issue that I can't seem to find an answer to.
As you said, the two big conferences have more than enough right now to not NEED to expand. And as the $$$ differential continues to widen... well I don't like where this is going for the sport as a whole but especially for those of us that like football and aren't in those two conferences.
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Rock Defender [54]
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It'll be the Big 10 for Clemson.
Dec 5, 2023, 12:01 AM
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As for FSU...who cares. Let FSU figure out FSU.
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Standout [306]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:45 PM
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Exactly, we need to get out and get out now of this mismanaged basketball conference
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All-In [27193]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:46 PM
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I would add that even the Big XII has more clout than the ACC at the moment. Undeniably so.
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:52 PM
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Yeah, it's crazy how mismanaged the ACC has been over the last decade or so.
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All-In [26044]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 2:56 PM
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It is quite obvious that they are in the back pocket of the SEC.
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:20 PM
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The ACC is in the back pocket of the SEC because it willfully signed an exclusivity deal with ESPN to be the “B” league to the SEC’s “A” league. This has been evident since the start of the deal and all the University presidents have been complicit in it.
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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the conference was... and remains...
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Dec 4, 2023, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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basketball focused.
They should have realized in the early 2000s that football $$$ was driving the bus and made a play for better football schools.
They didn't.
The disastrous GOR to get the ACC network up and running just kind of cements that they couldn't read the tea leaves. But that Clemson signed on is truly disappointing. Thought at that point I'm not sure what choice they really had.
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All-TigerNet [10492]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 3:15 PM
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It’s dangerous everywhere a Tiger goes. Cuz Tigers are dangerous.
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Orange Blooded [3559]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 3:20 PM
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I don’t see why the BIG10 wouldn’t want FSU and or Clemson. Both would generate big money for the conference
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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How?
Dec 4, 2023, 8:46 PM
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The committee just selected two SEC and two B1G teams. Do you really think if the Big 12 winner were Kansas State or Texas Tech, they would have gotten in?
I don't. The top 4 would have been Michigan, Washington, Bama and UGA.
The committee could have rationalized UGA is clearly better than FSU and Bama just beat UGA. (So, even if Bama had lost to the Big 12 champ they still have had 2 SEC and 2 B1G teams.)
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Orange Blooded [4477]
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I hope we join the SEC as soon as we can!***
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:21 PM
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Real simple. STOMP Georgia's AXX to start the season next year!***
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:26 PM
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:35 PM
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I'll try this again, Bret. Half the teams in the playoff are neither SEC nor B1G. FSU isn't in because the committee and everyone reading this posts knows they'd be double digit dogs to every potential playoff team. Conspiracy against the ACC has nothing to do with it.
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Standout [340]
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11 of top 12 teams will be in the big 10 or sec next year
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:37 PM
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The fix is in
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Legend [16160]
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I'll take that bet***
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:46 PM
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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A New Problem
Dec 4, 2023, 8:08 PM
[ in reply to 11 of top 12 teams will be in the big 10 or sec next year ] |
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It seems the ACC has started a practice of teams paying to join a conference with SMU and Stanford. So now to leave the ACC you not only have to pay the huge GOR, but also what the new conference demands.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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It's not a conspiracy AGAINST the ACC. It's a conspiracy FOR the SEC and it's handlers. Those are two different species of apples by friend.
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 5:06 PM
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Then why not put Georgia in over Texas? Georgia lost by 3 in the SEC Championship. Texas lost to a two-loss Oklahoma. Certainly had the committee wanted to they could have conspired to get in a second SEC team. You don't think they could advance the argument that Georgia is better than Texas or Washington?
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Associate AD [840]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 7:39 PM
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Georgia isn’t better than either of those teams, this year. What’s the quality win, Ole Miss?
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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How could they possibly leave UGA ahead of Bama, one day after losing to them?
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Dec 4, 2023, 9:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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And Bama wasn't going ahead of Texas, due to losing to them, AT HOME!
The only logical thing to do, after leaving FSU at #4 for two weeks after Travis' injury, was to leave them in the top four yesterday! But no way were they going to leave the mighty SEC out of the playoff.
Greg McElroy actually said on the broadcast yesterday, "We can't have a playoff without the SEC in it!"
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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All-In [38141]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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In your opinion... No one thought Auburn would be blown out by New Mexico State either. No one thought Alabama would need 2 miracles to beat Auburn a week later.
That's why you play the games instead of fixing the games like the committee did.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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I don't think this is a conspiracy against FSU or the ACC.
Dec 4, 2023, 8:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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I think it is merely a bias in favor of the SEC. If FSU were going to the SEC next year and Texas were not, then Texas would not have gotten the 4th bid, but FSU would have. (The third bid would have been either UGA or Bama, not sure which.)
But, my bigger point is this.
Every school not in the P2 will soon be relegated to the equivalent of today's G5.
And, I'm understanding the reality that the P2 has no reason to expand further than they have already.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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Not conspiracy against ACC, but bias toward the SEC. They were NOT going
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Dec 4, 2023, 9:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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to leave the SEC out of the playoff, no matter what! Once Bama beat UGA, they couldn't very well jump them ahead of Texas. Bama and Texas were linked together, and the Travis injury gave the committee the easy way out, in their mind!
I'm not sure they wouldn't have dropped FSU to 5th, even if Travis hadn't been injured. And if his injury was the deciding factor, why weren't they dropped out of the top four two weeks ago?
They would do anything to keep the overrated SEC in the playoff! The mighty SEC, who was 4-6 against the ACC, 0-2 against FSU and 5-7 against all other P5 schools in 2023!
I will say, that if they were going to drop FSU below TX & Bama, why didn't they drop them below UGA also?
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110%er [6099]
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Screw SEC and BIG, let them try and make their own playoff
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Dec 4, 2023, 3:39 PM
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they can kill off the rest of college football only to watch that drag them down as well. Half the teams in SEC/BIG suck, some of them worse than group of 5 schools. Nobody, least of all FSU should go groveling to them
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Screw SEC and BIG, let them try and make their own playoff
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:41 PM
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Last years CFP final drew half of the viewership of the first (17 million versus 34 million), and it’s been trending down. That’s tangible, fairly extreme, evidence that interest in the CFP is being eroded by the direction of the conferences. But there are no adults in the room to correct course.
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Legend [16160]
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Last year's final was a foregone conclusion...It was going to be UGA the second
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Dec 4, 2023, 6:30 PM
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the FG attempt touched earth in the Semis
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Legend [16930]
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Re: Last year's final was a foregone conclusion...It was going to be UGA the second
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Dec 4, 2023, 7:27 PM
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I can see why one might jump to that conclusion but the second worst rated CFP final was Alabama / Ohio State in 2020 at only 18.65 million viewers. Two of supposedly the biggest draws in the game. People are tired of it. 3 of 4 participants in the worst rated finals were SEC/BIG teams. The first three CFPs averaged over 28 million viewers. The next three averaged 26. The last three averaged 19. The average viewership of the single biggest game in college football has fallen below the lowest rated regular season national broadcast in the NFL in 2022. The first CFP beat everything the NFL broadcast that season until the playoffs.
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All-In [38141]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 4:09 PM
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Yep it is a shame. I still can't believe they dropped FSU out of the top 4. Even more importantly I can't believe they put Alabama in the top 4. I thought for sure the Auburn game would be the knife in the back of Alabama. They actually needed 2 miracles in the last seconds to somehow "win" the game. Auburn was just blown out by New Mexico State a week earlier.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Well now that the playoff is 12 teams... the path opened back up.***
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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Very good OP, particularly the part about...
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:18 PM
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the two conferences not needing to expand. Many people just do not understand this.
Per TEAM revenue is what matters. Will the addition of Clemson or FSU cause Fox or ESPN to pay the B1G or SEC more per TEAM revenue? That is a legit question.
As much as I don't like them, Notre Dame is the only school that guarantees it. However, right now, there seems to be a very good chance NBC will pony up enough money to keep them in the fold and out of the B1G.
There is a reason Oregon and Washington agreed to take 50% shares (that escalate annually) for the next few years to join the B1G. If Clemson and FSU escape the ACC early, you better believe they will have to do the same.
"Desperate" is the correct term to describe Clemson and FSU. When these new TV contracts kick in, the revenue disparity will grow so wide their football programs will fall behind. Non-rev sports will suffer even more.
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All-TigerNet [12260]
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The only way people are going to be truly happy is to eventually morph college
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Dec 4, 2023, 4:47 PM
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football system into something akin to the NFL system where only on-field results produces the champion. The problem is that would require dividing the current FBS teams into two leagues (at a minimum).
Something like this perhaps:
The top 64 programs from the current Power 5 are put into a Premiere College Football League. The Premiere League is further divided into two conferences - Red Conference and Blue Conference. These Conferences will be further sub-divided into 4 divisions; Red Conference North, South, East and West and a Blue Conference North, South, East, and West. From there the Red and Blue Conferences have a schedule and playoff system that mirrors the NFL structure (NFC and AFC Divisions) with the two Conference champions (Red and Blue) meeting in the Premiere College Championship for the Premiere League Champion.
The remaining FBS college teams not in the Premiere College Football League will form The Senior College Football League with their own Red/Blue conferences and mirror the same conference structure, rules, and playoffs as the Premiere College Football League. They have their own title game and crown their own Senior College Football League Champion.
The twist I would add is that any team in the Premiere league who suffers 2 continuous losing seasons (or whatever metric we want) can be sent down to the Senior League and be replaced by the top winning teams from the Senior league - starting with the most recent Senior League Champion.
If you want to do away with the eye test, rankings or any of that other garbage about the only way to do it is to reduce the top league of college football and institute a system similar to the NFL where there are no committees or anything other than on field results providing the champions...
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Legend [17645]
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Well said
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Dec 4, 2023, 8:10 PM
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bretfsu® ... Your post outlines a financial case for FSU (and Clemson) being willing to accept a stepped financial entry to the SEC (or B1G) if deemed worthy to join such esteemed Tier 1 conferences. Networks and conferences remain in leverage/negotiation mode. Nailed it.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 4, 2023, 8:26 PM
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FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC, NCSt, and Virginia Tech should go to the Big 12 and the super 2 would instantly become the super 3.
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Head Coach [788]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
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Dec 4, 2023, 9:08 PM
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Ya’ll smoking bad stuff.
The selection committee‘s decision was not based on conferences or ESPN or conspiracy or money. It’s based on the committee’s subjective opinion that Alabama is a better team than FSU. Period.
The committee was formed to make subjective opinions. Five conference winners to fill four spots. Committee has to make a subjective decision.
It would be nice if college football had an objective process like the NFL purely based on win loss records. But we do not.
Quit the crying. FSU was not screwed.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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I understand your argument.
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Dec 4, 2023, 9:36 PM
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Couple of serious questions.
Is Bama better than UGA?
Before they played last Saturday, did you think UGA is better than Bama?
Is FSU better than UGA? Apparently, the committee thinks so; they ranked FSU above UGA.
My point is not that FSU was snubbed. My point is FSU, Clemson and everyone else can see that when it comes to the playoffs there are 2 Tier One conferences now. And, the ACC (and Big 12) are not among those 2.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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You are wrong..the committee was determined to get the SEC champ in, no matter
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Dec 4, 2023, 10:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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what. The committee would not stand for leaving the SEC out of the playoff! If UGA had beaten Bama, FSU would likely have stayed at #4!
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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The committee has not had to deal with the 5/4
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Dec 4, 2023, 10:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk. ] |
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Issue since the first CFP in 2014. And this year. 3 unbeaten P5 conf champions and 2 1-loss conf champions. No serious non P5 contender (sorry Liberty). Yet the committee has an atrocious track record with their subjective selections of the “best” teams. They must have missed on 2 “best” teams last year since TCU lost 65-7 after beating another “best” team in Michigan. There have been more blowouts than good games in CFP history. Maybe they should start trusting on field results more.
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Orange Blooded [4820]
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Im gonna stand in front of the tank here
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Dec 4, 2023, 10:20 PM
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…and disagree with ya Brett. I pretty much agree with all your posts except this one. Sure the ACC doesn’t get respect like the SEC does, but outside of our two schools, the conference hasn’t proven much to get respect.
Now, to the issue at hand, had FSU looked been even halfway as strong as they did with JT on Sat night they would have been in. But a 3-0 halftime score and not much more to see in th 2nd half sealed the deal for Bama in the playoff. Why? Because this is big business and the committee could not afford to put a team that couldn’t score points in front of a national audience that could easily turn the game off if it gets lopsided.
Forget that the 2nd string guy, who’s a lot better would be back under center, the damage was done for the “drive by” viewers. That group includes advertisers who want guaranteed returns. To please that crowd the committee had no choice.
I hate it for FSU and the ACC, but EVERYTHING in CFB is driven by the big money now.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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The comittee should not be listening to "drive-by" viewers! I am not convinced
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Dec 4, 2023, 10:38 PM
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that the SEC would have been left out of the playoff, even if FSU had beaten L'ville 40-7. Or even if Travis hadn't gotten hurt!
At soon as Bama beat UGA, the committee was scrambling to keep an SEC team in the playoff! As Greg McElroy said Sunday, "We can't have a playoff without the SEC!"
There was no way they could keep UGA ahead of Bama, and no way to put Bama ahead of Texas, so their way out was to screw FSU!
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Im gonna stand in front of the tank here
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Dec 4, 2023, 10:48 PM
[ in reply to Im gonna stand in front of the tank here ] |
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Imho I don’t think FSU is a likely candidate to get blown out in the sense of a majority of CFP games since inception. Teams with great defenses are less susceptible to getting run out of the game early.
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All-TigerNet [10906]
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You are correct! Instead of harping on FSU's offensive shortcomings...
Dec 5, 2023, 6:31 AM
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the committee should having been praising their amazing defensive effort. Even in this day of prolific offenses, defense can still win championships!
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Interesting perspective.
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Dec 4, 2023, 11:53 PM
[ in reply to Im gonna stand in front of the tank here ] |
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********
Forget that the 2nd string guy, who’s a lot better would be back under center, the damage was done for the “drive by” viewers. That group includes advertisers who want guaranteed returns. To please that crowd the committee had no choice.
*******
So, the committee makes the decision based on advertising dollars, not on football performance. I was not aware that was in the criteria they listed.
And, if you are right, that proves my point. The SEC and B1G get the big bucks from ESPN. Far more than any other conference gets. So, it makes sense that the the committee would pick teams from those conferences.
Why don't we just let the businesses who buy the most advertising pick the 4 teams?
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All-In [48402]
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New esecpn TV ad rollout
Dec 5, 2023, 12:13 AM
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I guess by now everyone has seen the new esecpn advertising roll-out for 2024. If you haven't, that's all you need to know and see about what's going on, and as you stated, will continue to go on. I knew it as soon as Gary Daniel etc ended the broadcast and said their good-bye.
I've seen it probably 2 dozen times streaming a bball game on espn+. All money. No way that's as an impactful roll-out without an sec in the playoffs.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Del Conte leans back in his leather chair
Dec 4, 2023, 11:59 PM
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pops his Lucchese's up on his big ol' partner's desk, fires up a Magnum and says
"It's gooooood to be Texas, boys."
And no, this one never gets old:
https://youtu.be/xcU3_Cok3CI
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Starter [376]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 5, 2023, 8:33 AM
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I agree with the original post. But I read this as not SEC and Big10. This is a scramble between ESPN and Fox. The SEC is a definitive market that reliably tunes in for college football. It currently expands from Texas to South Carolina. And for the Kool-Aid drinkers, this the best conference to follow regardless of who is playing. Like they're so fond of saying, "any given Saturday...".
The Big10 is similar in that they have a devoted fan based. But I don't believe it extends throughout the conference. Buckeyes will watch Buckeyes, Wolverines will watch Wolverines. But I don't think their fans really care what happens in an Iowa-Minnesota came the way an SEC fan would.
Does Clemson expand the SEC market. Not really. They already have the state. They would gain us as viewers. But personally, I could care less what happens in an Arkansas-Ole Miss game and more to the point, don't really care whose acronym is painted on the field.
FSU, ditto. SEC gains nothing here. Maybe add viewers as FSU fans. but that's about it.
The odd man out here is NBC. but they're laughing their collective behinds off because of their contract with Notre Dame. I see no reason for ND not to continue that relationship.
Does it really matter which conference we are in? Yes, but only in terms of revenue. We can pine away about the old days. But that train left the station years ago.
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Orange Blooded [3728]
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Re: Dangerous tightrope of FSU, Clemson, et. al. to walk.
Dec 5, 2023, 8:40 AM
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The ACC needs a serious commissioner. A real CEO.
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