Replies: 44
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110%er [7979]
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Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 17, 2024, 2:37 PM
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2014: Started 13-4, finished 10-9 2015: Started 8-4, finished 5-8 2016: Started 12-6, finished 10-9 2017: Started 11-2, finished 6-14 2018: Started 14-1, finished 11-9 2019: Started 10-3, finished 10-11 2021: Started 9-1, finished 7-7 2022: Started 9-4, finished 8-12 2023: Started 15-3, finished 8-8 2024: Started 11-1, since: 1-4
Nothing in this trend suggests much better than 0.500 closing the season.
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All-TigerNet [13959]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 17, 2024, 2:40 PM
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UNC Wilmington Seahawks (Colonial Athletic Association) (2002–2006) 2002–03 UNC Wilmington 24–7 15–3 1st NCAA Division I Round of 64 2003–04 UNC Wilmington 15–15 9–9 7th 2004–05 UNC Wilmington 19–10 13–5 T–2nd 2005–06 UNC Wilmington 25–8 15–3 T–1st NCAA Division I Round of 64 UNC Wilmington: 83–40 (.675) 52–20 (.722) Wright State Raiders (Horizon League) (2006–2010) 2006–07 Wright State 23–10 13–3 T–1st NCAA Division I Round of 64 2007–08 Wright State 21–10 12–6 3rd 2008–09 Wright State 20–13 12–6 3rd 2009–10 Wright State 20–12 12–6 2nd Wright State: 84–45 (.651) 49–21 (.700)
Clemson Tigers (Atlantic Coast Conference) (2010–present) 2010–11 Clemson 22–12 9–7 T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 64 2011–12 Clemson 16–15 8–8 7th 2012–13 Clemson 13–18 5–13 11th 2013–14 Clemson 23–13 10–8 6th NIT Semifinal 2014–15 Clemson 16–15 8–10 T–9th 2015–16 Clemson 17–14 10–8 T–7th 2016–17 Clemson 17–16 6–12 12th NIT First Round 2017–18 Clemson 25–10 11–7 T–3rd NCAA Division I Sweet 16 2018–19 Clemson 20–14 9–9 T–8th NIT Second Round 2019–20 Clemson 16–15 9–11 9th Postseason Cancelled 2020–21 Clemson 16–8 10–6 T–5th NCAA Division I Round of 64 2021–22 Clemson 17–16 8–12 10th 2022–23 Clemson 23–11 14–6 T–3rd NIT First Round 2023–24 Clemson 12–5 2–4 Clemson: 253–182 (.582) 119–121 (.496)
Total: 420–267 (.611)
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CU Guru [1256]
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Should have stayed at UNC Wilmington.***
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Jan 17, 2024, 2:44 PM
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 17, 2024, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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What you won't see here in these stats from his prior stints is Brad's winning % in one-score games (3 points or less). At UNCW and Wright State, he won those at a clip very close to this overall win %. Since elevating to ACC-level coaching opponents, he has been in the low 40's there - nearly 20 points off his record otherwise.
It doesn't just seem like Brad loses more of the close games here - it's verified, and strikingly worse against the better coaching in the ACC than what he faced in the Horizon and whatever UNCW is.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 17, 2024, 4:15 PM
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This is going to absolutely blow your mind.
In the last 6 years (not including this year), we are 16-19 in games decided by 3 points or less. Speaking strictly of in conference games we have been 13-15. Of the 15 games we lost, the team that beat us finished ahead of us in acc play in 12 of them. Of the 13 games we won, we finished higher in conference standings in 10 of them.
So you are telling me that in 3 point or less games, the team that is better typically wins? Wow! This is groundbreaking stuff.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 17, 2024, 7:57 PM
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I already schooled you on this several seasons ago when you were claiming Brad was on the plus side there and it just seemed like it. I'm not lazy though so I checked it out.
The win %'s you're stating are all losing %'s to start. Winner winner. And the last 6 years you're now on also reflect a higher overall win % with the Bradster considering the $65 Mil and NIL fund. He's still trending 20 points below his overall, like he has since he started here. Tenured and winning coaches in the ACC fare far better. Look it up La-Z-Boy.
Brad fared far better in closing out Wins when he was coaching within his league. His prior minor leagues. Here in the ACC he has been at or near the bottom regularly. The trophy cabinet reflects this.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 9:15 AM
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Wait a tick, whem uncw was a top team in their league 3 out of the 4 years he was there, they won close games against inferior opponents? Likewise at wright state?
Wow, you seem to be proving my point.
We typically win close games when we are the better team, and lose the close games when we are not. Again, groundbreaking stuff.
Message was edited by: Clemson mountaineers®
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
Jan 18, 2024, 9:32 AM
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Let me help you out with this, junior.
You've been pumping quite often on here how any given team can show up strong and win in hoops against superior competition. It's the nature of the game. Upsets happen. What close game scores represent are those games where BOTH teams are in it late on that given night - BOTH teams showed up and kept it tight. Brad's failings are losing those games where both teams have shown up to play, at a much higher clip than his peers. He gets out end-gamed - regularly. At prior stops versus inferior coaching than the ACC produces, he fared much better in closing out games. Against higher quality coaching, he, and subsequently our Tigers, falter.
I wish it weren't the case, but herein lies a killer underperformance metric that goes a long way toward explaining our more frequent heartbreak over the years (happens), along with coming up just those one or two games short throughout a season that tank our post-season chances.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 10:57 AM
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The facts show that when we are the better team, we have a winning record in close games. When we are the lesser team, we have a losing record against teams better than us.
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Orange Blooded [4059]
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Didnt you just use Beamer logic?
Jan 18, 2024, 11:02 AM
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We play better when our opponent is so far ahead in the 4th that they put their scrubs in.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Didnt you just use Beamer logic?
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:06 AM
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Somebody doesnt watch basketball!
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All-In [31315]
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Re: Didnt you just use Beamer logic?
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:50 PM
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Apparently you do not. If you go to the games you must be sleeping. No way any sane human being could keep witnessing the train wreck we see every January and February and say we are in a good spot coaching wise.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Didnt you just use Beamer logic?
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:08 PM
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Were we a train wreck last january since you say it happens every single year?
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Hall of Famer [22741]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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This is hilarious. Of course the team that wins more close games is going to end up with a better record and in hindsight, be the better team when you look at records after the season. And wow, the team that loses more close games ends up with a worse (lesser) record. Who’d a thunk it?
Y’all just keep spinning so much that you’ve made yourselves dizzy.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:34 AM
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Not what i was saying.
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All-In [32656]
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Uhhhh - yeah - yeah it was. In part, using your BS and smoke & mirrors,
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:38 AM
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the reason the team that just beat us by 2, will be the better team because they won that close game.
If we had a coach AT ALL in the last 1 to 2 minutes of a game, and that person could COACH our guys to win the close one - you know, like foul a dude in the backcourt before he jacks a 3 to send it to overtime - then we would win more close games & WE would be the better team.
But we aren't - because we are dragging a cinder block along with us at the end of the games that usually provides very little assistance in helping us win games.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Uhhhh - yeah - yeah it was. In part, using your BS and smoke & mirrors,
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:10 PM
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So did gt "not habe a coach at all" because they didnt foul either when basically in the same situation.
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All-In [32656]
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I'm worried about Clemson and OUR basketball leadership - not what GT
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:19 PM
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is doing. Hope this helps.
And GT won - and I'm not the guy that stresses and wrings hands and critiques wins.
Win the next 18 games we have, in a row, with half-court shots at the buzzer - I'm good with that.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I'm worried about Clemson and OUR basketball leadership - not what GT
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:25 PM
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Oh so you said it was undeniably bad coaching that we didn't foul.
What you dont realize, because you are not very knowledgeable about basketball is that many coaches around the country do not foul in that same situation. Maybe these many coaches know a little more about basketball than you do.
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All-In [32656]
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We lose as an 11.5pt favorite - at home - to a .500 team - that is
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:37 PM
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on a 5 game losing skid - With us being a really good team that has a terrible head coach.
That is ALL that matters . . . . everything else is you cult guys trying to convince the rest of us that the Kool-Aid tastes good - we're just too stupid to know that arsenic in purple Kool-Aid is a delicacy.
Have a nice day - G O T I G E R S ! !
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: We lose as an 11.5pt favorite - at home - to a .500 team - that is
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Jan 18, 2024, 3:36 PM
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Ok, well then move goal posts instead of defending what you said. Par for the course.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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You have proven to be lazy and careless when stating anything as a 'fact' on here so I'm going to go with simply not believing you, at all, with that statement. Odds are you just made that up.
What is a fact, proven and undeniable, is that Brad Brownell is one of the worst coaches in the ACC when it comes to putting his team in the Win column in a close, one-score game. He was much better in this category when he coached against less savvy coaches of the Horizon and Colonial leagues, where his close game record was much closer to his overall. Against a better crop of peers, his record in close games is way off his overall mark, painfully so. This is an actual fact, Jack.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:12 PM
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He was much better because he had a top team in the conference.
Thank you for continuing to prove my point, jack.
This is getting really embarrassing for you. Just stop while you are behind.
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All-In [32656]
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Don't forget wildblulou - the cult has said - if we had Mike K or
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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other GOOD coaches - the most they would have added was a win or 2 a year.
This is the level of competency we are "discussing" things with.
wildblulou®
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Don't forget wildblulou - the cult has said - if we had Mike K or
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:45 PM
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LOL.
One single additional win last year would have had us in the NCAA instead of the NIT.
Being on the plus side of the Va Tech game the year before in the ACCT would have placed us in a very favorable semi-final spot - and been the first time Brad would ever have won 2 games in the ACCT.
The year before that, not allowing a 7-man rostered Miami team that had played a game the night before edge us in the ACCT could well have put us in a position to win the whole thing. Ga Tech would have been next and the final was canceled due to Covid.
One or two games here and there through the course of a season make a HUGE difference. That's what's been so frustrating about all these Brownell years and squandered opportunities.
If the cult actually had any basketball sense they would realize how critical these nuances are in terms of program success and program failure.
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All-In [32656]
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BUT - according to the cult - THEY are the Omniscient Basketball
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Jan 18, 2024, 2:16 PM
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Knowledge Authoritarians . . . . and we are, on our BEST days, only able to slobber on the pages of the Basketball Book of Knowledge.
Great points you make - but the premise that Mike K, et al, would MAYBE win us another game or 2 a year is beyond comedy and gets down to mental illness depths.
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All-In [31315]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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Mountie you seem a little slow on learning from the past. Nothing you come up with makes any sense in defending the status quo. If you feel the coach is doing well then everyone is entitled to their opinion, but don’t keep telling us how good everything is. It’s just not, no matter how you want to spin it. Expect better!
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Hall of Famer [22741]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:30 PM
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IDK, his logic that when you win a close game you will finish higher and are better than the team you beat seems pretty profound to me. 😂😜😜
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All-In [31315]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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Basically what he has said and apparently you fail to understand is that Brownell is not very good in close games.
Have you seen where we currently are in the conference? We heard this was one of Brownell’s best teams but yet he has figured out how to score that up.
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110%er [5683]
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Why did we hire a mid-major coach
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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That missed the tournament 3 years in a row?
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Why did we hire a mid-major coach
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:18 AM
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Because Rick Stansbury pulled a Bobby Cremins on us. Everyone forgets the Brownell was a desperation save face hire after Stansbury accepted then changed his mind. He would have been terrible too. But he wouldn’t be here 14 years later.
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All-American [556]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: Clemson Basketball trend ] |
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60% was a D grade when I went to school. Unacceptable for most I think. More mediocrity. At some point with practice aren’t you supposed to improve?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
Jan 17, 2024, 3:50 PM
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Non conference where you only play a few good teams vs. acc games. makes sense
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Scout Team [158]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
Jan 17, 2024, 4:01 PM
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Great Post! I agree 100%
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Athletic Dir [892]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
Jan 17, 2024, 7:38 PM
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Eye opening stats
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
Jan 18, 2024, 8:58 AM
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Cicada Brad schedules more cupcakes than most other P5 coaches - thus - our record early is gaudy and misleading. Where other schools play in tournaments with highly ranked opposition around Christmas - we play Davidson and UAB and then claim they are good wins because about 20 years ago, those schools went to the dance. If you remove the “excess cupcakes” - and add in a couple of truly good schools - the pre and post records would probably be similar.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 9:12 AM
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We played one of the best ooc schedules this year.
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All-In [28417]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 9:40 AM
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butt lost to 8-8 gt at home.
BRAD SUX
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All-In [32656]
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That we should have won - with competent coaching.***
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:07 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Our basketball program has received over $103,000,000.00
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Jan 18, 2024, 11:02 AM
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in facility upgrades and new building commitments since 2016. That's a lot of money for very little change in return.
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Legend [16263]
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Re: Our basketball program has received over $103,000,000.00
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:17 PM
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If the 'bottom line' is actually a factor Neff is using to gauge coaching success and ROI, then he has a lot of explaining to do here.
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All-In [31315]
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Re: Our basketball program has received over $103,000,000.00
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Jan 18, 2024, 12:53 PM
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And if he intends on keeping Brownell then I hope we scratch the plans for the new facility and put it somewhere else.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Oculus Spirit [80443]
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losing the closer***
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Jan 18, 2024, 2:14 PM
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Starter [376]
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Re: Clemson Basketball trend
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Jan 18, 2024, 2:21 PM
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Never really been on the "Brad-wagon". But let's not forget. When Oliver Purnell left, he and TDP weren't even talking to each other. His sin? Asking for too much for the basketball program. Brad was hired for a purpose. Put a respectable team on the floor, stay out of trouble and keep your mouth shut. Mission accomplished. Just my take. Time to move on. That is up, if we really really want to take it to another level.
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Replies: 44
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