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Replies: 15
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Hall of Famer [22948]
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Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 5:57 PM
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Different perspective. FSU has arguably been the most successful team in the country for the past two years combined. General consensus in FSU will probably start the season as a top 10 team and the over/under will be 10.5.
I'm listening to a Tallahassee radio station now. It is hosted by two guys who are employees of warchant.com, the most popular independent website for FSU sports - by far.
These two guys are talking about how Norvell used the portal to build the program. But for the past hour they keep making these observations:
1. This is not sustainable year after year.
2. HS recruiting has to improve drastically. Maybe not a top 3 class, but clearly has to get into top 10 class, and do it next year.
3. Things looks great for 2023. But, they don't look great for 2024 and 2025.
4. FSU has 2 outstanding recruiters on staff. Norvell and Alex Atkins. All of the other coaches are average at best.
5. Don't be surprised if there are coaching changes on the staff this winter, not because they can't coach but because they can't recruit.
I find it interesting. Clemson fans are concerned that Dabo isn't using the portal enough to remain competitive. FSU fans are concerned that Norvell isn't doing a good enough job with high school recruiting to remain competitive.
Is this "The grass is always greener" syndrome?
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110%er [7037]
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If FSU were the most successful program for the past two years, they would have at least one Natty!***
Dec 27, 2022, 6:04 PM
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Hall of Famer [22948]
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Most successful in terms of portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 6:10 PM
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Clearly UGA has been the most successful program overall.
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All-TigerNet [10833]
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Re: Most successful in terms of portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 7:46 PM
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Interesting stuff you posted. I think it is a bit early to tell how much of an impact the portal is having. I still think good recruiting has to be the bedrock of any successful program, especially over the long haul. Development and coaching also key.
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110%er [6162]
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The portal will help plug holes for teams that have
Dec 27, 2022, 7:56 PM
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consistently good recruiting classes. There will be misses or slow development. I think it will take both to be at the top year in and year out.
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Orange Blooded [2146]
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Re: The portal will help plug holes for teams that have
Dec 28, 2022, 6:46 AM
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I disagree. The portal feels a lot like juco recruiting was back in the 90s. You may hit on one or two but in the end your program moves backward because it screws up recruiting and team chemistry.
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All-In [49555]
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Re: The portal will help plug holes for teams that have
Dec 28, 2022, 6:56 AM
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Nope. Disagree. It's just another form of recruiting. Back when juco was used a lot, kids didn't leave. They waited their turn and very few freshman ever played. That's what screwed up the chemistry, a team would bring in a juco that'd jump a developmental guy. That's no longer the landscape of cfp.
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All-In [31620]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 8:02 PM
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Long term program sustainability equals good to great high school kids that can be counted on to stay at least 3 years. Everyone has their own take but this is the only thing that makes any sense.
Also it will be harder to get the good recruits if the coach is known to hit the portal for the next big thing. The next portaled player maybe taking the spot I’m being recruited for.
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Orange Blooded [4484]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 8:17 PM
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As usual a very honest post from you. I wish some of these tiger posters would do as well. Without injuries FSU is going to be a top 10 program next season. As you say they will fall off big time the next year at least and maybe the following year. If that happens the Adm may look to Deion to come back home.
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Orange Blooded [4484]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 8:20 PM
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FSU looking for more than a 1 year and done approach. Norvell used this approach to save his job but may in the long run lose it.
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All-In [49555]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 8:33 PM
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Not the grass is greener at all. Like op said. Got to have both. Just like Saban taking the Maryland TE. It sure hasn't destroyed his recruiting has it?
Even with DJ, what could we have been the past two years if we'd plugged some holes. Don't know... nobody does.
You can play with stats and make them what you want. Recruiting rankings Clemson is pretty consistent rankings wise until you dig into it. We'll see, but we have a couple good recruiters on our staff. The trenches. The other coaches aren't too good.
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Oculus Spirit [94334]
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ESPiN is not going to allow FSU and Clemson in the top 10...
Dec 27, 2022, 9:39 PM
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preseason. That would up the ACC's SOS way to high and prevent one SEC team a spot in the top 10. That could lead to them returning to the wheel:
The extra work of spinning their rhetoric would be exhausting.
We had four really good programs in the ACC this season and look where they are ranked now.
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 27, 2022, 10:30 PM
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Good post Bret, interesting perspective. Any color on why FSU fans are so concerned about the portal success? Is the idea that if a school has success in the portal, it’s harder to keep HS recruits there? Seems like Dabo is trying the opposite, he uses the portal only when absolutely necessary, and he tries to use that as a recruiting tool with HS recruits.
Agree w/ clemgal, there’s value in being able to do both. I think Bama has generally done this well and time will tell with other top programs. I do think the importance of running a program that’s a true meritocracy will be even more important than ever before with the portal. If you’re a program that consistently plays the best players, HS recruits and portal players will go all out for playing time. Personally, I think some of the effort issues we’ve had at WR the past 2 seasons were because there was no one coming in behind them.
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All-In [49555]
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Re: Building a program and portal recruiting.
Dec 28, 2022, 7:02 AM
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^^^ said much better than I did ^^^
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Hall of Famer [22948]
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Thanks for all the replies. A few answers.
Dec 28, 2022, 6:03 AM
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I think FSU fans are concerned because most of us understand that you can't count on bringing in 5 or more immediate starters who are also at the all-conference level every year. Our HS recruiting has to get better.
As the HS recruiting gets better, you will be less and less dependent on the portal. We were hoping our HS recruiting would be better this year. Our hope is that now that we have established ourself as a solid program it will be significantly better next year. WE love the way Norvell has used the portal; we just want to increase the quality of HS kids so that the portal is not as vital every year.
Now, the one thing that FSU has in common with Clemson is culture. Neither school has to worry about starters jumping ship and looking for another school. The guys who are leaving FSU and entering the portal are doing so because of lack of playing time. They can't break into the two deep depth chart. Kids seem to love playing at FSU. Our retention efforts are mainly focused on getting kids to stay for one more year rather than head to the NFL. The secondary retention focus is to look at the young kids who are showing great potential and convincing them to stay here and playing time will follow.
But, the bottom line is for FSU to compete with Clemson and other top 10 teams on a regular basis our HS recruiting has to improve. I think it will. Norvell seems to be a guy who understnads the big picture. He has built an infrastructure that focuses on every aspect of the football team. He has a staff that is solely responsible for looking at the portal. They literally monitor the portal 24/7. Many kids have said, "FSU was the first school that contacted me." Norvell and his staff seem to do a great job evaluating talent. They aren't looking for big name players who are leaving big name schools. They are looking for guys who "fit." (Just like I've heard Dabo say.)
Norvell has proven he can develop players. He has shown the players improve while at FSU. He has shown his offensive scheme is effective. It is fun to watch. It is explosive. It uses every position, not concentrating on one or two guys.
Now, he just has to show he can bring in a top 5-10 HS class in order to be looking at 10 wins as "expected" not just hoped for.
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All-In [49555]
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Re: Thanks for all the replies. A few answers.
Dec 28, 2022, 7:27 AM
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Thanks Bret. I've followed your posts. I did a bad job of explaining above. I think FSU is a chicken and egg situation now. Norvell understood this. As you've stated before, the internal support hasn't been there until now. So Norvell is/has been battling uphill. He knows what he's doing.
Imho, he's got to get FSU back into the national conversation, and needs to quickly. That will bring the recruiting wins back. Your player rating per recruit has been on par with Clemson the last 2 years. Just the HS classes have been small. Again, imo he's bringing in the right players to develop while at the same time, bringing in players for experience to help develop the young recruits.
Winning brings success. I see your lsu win this year and your closer pays huge dividends in the next 2 years. I think it'll be like our lsu win in 13. Recruits kinda waiting to see if FSU is back and will it stick... kinda waiting to see if things are permanent change and the support is there. 23 will be a big season for you. Continued success will bring the recruiting back.
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