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Orange Blooded [2695]
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In defense of the Great American City
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Feb 18, 2024, 6:17 PM
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Wherein Fareeed Zakaria makes a strong rebuttal against Tucker Carlsons latest bold claims that American Cities can’t compare to places like Moscow, lol.
I’ve never completely understood the far right’s obsession with American cities, and their unusually hostile critiques. It is possible that most people who hold these opinions likely don’t have much city experience and just parrot whatever their favorite talking head has to say about the matter because it conforms to a very simplistic, uninformed worldview.
The problem here is what the talking heads want them to believe and why.
https://x.com/fareedzakaria/status/1759298230859239434?s=61
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All-In [27184]
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It's guys who have never left Gaffney talking about how much big cities suck.***
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Feb 18, 2024, 6:32 PM
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Legend [17324]
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Nice but they might have been to Greenville when malls were a thing !***
Feb 18, 2024, 7:16 PM
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Lot o points [156045]
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If you knew pre-BMW Greenville, SC, then you
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:23 PM
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Got a glimpse of paradise.
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Legend [17324]
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: In defense of the Great American City
Feb 18, 2024, 6:42 PM
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Never been to Moscow, but most European cities are safer than most of the American cities I've lived in and been to. Now, I don't know if they're 'better'. Have you been to Moscow?
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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America's cities are more dynamic than most of the world....
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:02 PM
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Our cities are great engines of economic prosperity, entrepreneurial capitalism, and social dynamism. They employ a lot of people, and generate a lot of wealth. And our cities aren't as unsafe as some make it out to be. For instance, it's probably safer to live in NYC or SF than in many parts of Red America.
Thank God for our cities and for the people in them. Many great Americans are in our cities.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: America's cities are more dynamic than most of the world....
Feb 18, 2024, 7:14 PM
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Most cities in the world are economic engines. The more people you have in one area, the more commerce you are going to have. I've lived in cities for most of my life and almost entirely my adult life, and most of the crime happens in pockets. But, European cities are generally safer than American cities.
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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Europe has less guns than the US....
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:41 PM
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So, it's likely that you're correct about Europe having safer cities.
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All-TigerNet [13174]
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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What I said is true....
Feb 18, 2024, 7:42 PM
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I don't know what that has to do with GT. But you're free to hate whatever I said, if it bothers you.
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Lot o points [156045]
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Its not really the veracity of it as much as how easy
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:45 PM
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It is to imagine you holding a white wine glass palm up and sniffing your own farts while typing it.
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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LOL. I was eating a ham sandwich while typing it.***
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:57 PM
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CU Guru [1382]
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110%er [5699]
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Re: What I said is true....
Feb 18, 2024, 9:44 PM
[ in reply to What I said is true.... ] |
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Head in sand take.
Our cities suck. The people in them suck because they are generally democrats or commies. The cities are run by incompetent democrats for the most part. Defund the police and let them riot. That's the American big city.
The only reason they have not imploded is the greatness of the free market, which the idiot leftists are attempting to shut down as quick as they can.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: What I said is true....
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:05 PM
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You suck
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: What I said is true....
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:53 PM
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Sorry, that was mean; but, that's a really silly generalization.
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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Your take is exactly what I talked about below....
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: What I said is true.... ] |
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You not only don't like the cities in America, but you also dislike the people themselves. This is a perfect example of why the GOP & conservatives in general lose in cities. You don't respect the economic activity & jobs created in cities. You don't respect the people who lives in cities, who work jobs, who have families, who go to churches, who do all the things the rest of America does.
And then you guys wonder why you can't get more votes in these areas.
The problem is with you, not the cities.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Your take is exactly what I talked about below....
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:30 PM
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The funny part is, there a generally a boat load of conservatives in most cities. They are just generally outnumbered in most cities that I'm familiar.
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All-In [27184]
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Wall St. is a notorious hotbed of Communist thought.***
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:33 PM
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Wall St. is a notorious hotbed of Communist thought.***
Feb 18, 2024, 10:40 PM
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Wait, you're telling me I can make a living from moving money from pot A to pot B? Sweet, I can stop digging these ditches.
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All-In [44067]
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Take Atlanta for example.
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Feb 18, 2024, 10:49 PM
[ in reply to Your take is exactly what I talked about below.... ] |
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It’s an incredible city, with loads of successful companies, tons of diversity, and a high quality of life. But if you ask a lot of hard core Republicans, it’s a horrible place. They can’t see all the good there because they are too scared of urban development and people who aren’t just like them. It’s sad.
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Lot o points [156045]
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Early contender for straw man of the year.***
Feb 19, 2024, 8:08 AM
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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Good example....
Feb 19, 2024, 8:36 AM
[ in reply to Take Atlanta for example. ] |
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If you took Atlanta out of Georgia, you'd have Mississippi.
Atlanta is a great town, with a lot to offer. But alot of rural people that I talk to (I live in Rural Georgia) hate Atlanta. They despise the diversity.
I'll admit that Atlanta traffic sucks. Also, I hate it when Clemson & UGA take over our stadium every other year. 
But seriously, conservatives need to think more about the whole "I hate the big city" thing. It's an insult to half of America.
Dems need to do better in rural America. But I don't sense that Democrats hate the people who live in rural America nearly as much as Republicans detest people who live in urban American.
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CU Guru [1382]
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All-In [27184]
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This is false.***
Feb 19, 2024, 10:08 AM
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Hall of Famer [24832]
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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No, I'm not AI. I'm human....
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Feb 18, 2024, 9:57 PM
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And that post was my view on cities.
Alot of right-wingers seem to hate our cities and the people in them. They have a narrow view of what it means to be American.
If I lived in, say, NYC or LA or Chicago or some other large city, I would feel insulted by alot of conservatives who pretend that my city is a hell-hole and that I'm less American than them. Our cities create the jobs and pay the bills in this country. Our cities are populated by hard-working people, with families, with children, who go to church, who get up and make a living every #### day, just like the rest of America. The right wing should respect our cities - and the people in them - more than they do.
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Hall of Famer [24832]
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I don't hate anybody. I hate the traffic and scheduling around it. That simple.***
Feb 18, 2024, 10:33 PM
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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Well, you've got a point on traffic, especially in Atlanta & LA. LOL.
Feb 19, 2024, 8:49 AM
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CU Guru [1382]
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Orange Blooded [2695]
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No, never been to Moscow but I have a theory
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: In defense of the Great American City ] |
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It’s called…follow the money.
The amount of capital that has been invested into cities in the United States has been pretty impressive over the last several decades. People still want to invest there for SOME reason. Otherwise, real estate markets there will have tanked long ago.
This firm Resonance actually has developed a ranking system which goes into much greater detail. Not a single Russian city made the list, which I guess means something.
https://www.atlasandboots.com/remote-work/best-cities-in-the-world-ranking/
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: No, never been to Moscow but I have a theory
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:18 PM
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So, you're kind of doing what you are saying others do.
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Orange Blooded [2695]
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Not guilty of the same
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:58 PM
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I’ve spent the majority of my living and working in big American cities and understand what they actually are within our cultural milieu.
Which American talking head am I parroting do you think?
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Not guilty of the same
Feb 18, 2024, 8:04 PM
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You were referring to people's lack of experience of living in cities and critiquing cities. You don't have experience with Moscow.
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Orange Blooded [2695]
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Did I make a claim pro or con about Moscow.
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Feb 18, 2024, 8:14 PM
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I am just here defending American cities from an informed, first hand point of view.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Did I make a claim pro or con about Moscow.
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Feb 18, 2024, 8:26 PM
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"Wherein Fareeed Zakaria makes a strong rebuttal against Tucker Carlsons latest bold claims that American Cities can’t compare to places like Moscow, lol."
The 'lol' makes it appear you are discounting the statement 'American cities can't compare to Moscow.' You don't have any experience with Moscow. You then went on to talk about how you think that most people who think this way probably have no experience with cities.
I mean, it doesn't really matter.
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Orange Blooded [2695]
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Yes, the LOL was because Tuckers claim seemed preposterous
Feb 18, 2024, 9:32 PM
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to make after having spent three days there. I honestly don’t know how he could form such an expert impression in those 72 hours.
But that’s 72 hours more than you or I, so he can claim whatever he wants, as authoritatively as he wants. He has the audience, that’s for sure.
I’m not sold, lol.
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Hall of Famer [24832]
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If you want to see an absolutely clean city, go to Leichtenstein.***
Feb 18, 2024, 10:09 PM
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: If you want to see an absolutely clean city, go to Leichtenstein.***
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Feb 18, 2024, 11:46 PM
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On that end, I was pretty impressed by Vienna. Probably my favorite big city. Nice people, pristine city, especially for its size, surrounded by mountains. I think I heard two people honk their car horns the whole time I was there, and those were very necessary horns.
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All-In [27184]
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This issue is so funny to break down.
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: In defense of the Great American City ] |
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Most of what makes European cities more attractive is their density, walkability, and public transportation -- things Right Populists are traditionally against, at least in terms of where they want spending to be directed (e.g. roads over rail). There is also the romanticism of European architecture, which is mostly a byproduct of their age, and is also somewhat subjective; the marvel of engineering that goes into building a high rise on a postage stamp parcel is just as impressive as any gothic cathedral. It is just that the latter is more rare in our culture, so we find it more captivating.
But that's about where European cities have their dominance. Air conditioning and functioning laundry machines are luxuries. And your average (non lux) accommodations aren't nearly as nice. I would argue that even the food is better in America given the breadth of variety available in any major metro neighborhood.
And, this is even before getting into the freedom aspect. The people making the claims that Moscow is better wouldn't last a week if they spoke the same way against the Kremlin as they do the Biden White House. It's not just Russia. Europe as a whole does not value free speech the way America does.
Then, you have the poverty, and second/third world conditions, outside of city centers. Even Pyongyang has a nice city center, but you wouldn't say NK is doing better than the U.S. Only 77% of Russia has indoor plumbing. It's 99% in the U.S. And, as far as crime goes, I wonder how much of that is a function of firearm policy and its impact on gang activity. If you isolate gang violence, I wonder how safety compares between U.S. and European cities.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: This issue is so funny to break down.
Feb 18, 2024, 7:28 PM
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That's why I said 'I don't know about better.'
Well yeah, if you take out violent criminals, then violent crime numbers would be better. And yes, overall, standard of living is better here.
We may be moving towards European appliances... Hopefully not, I like to be able to dry my clothes in less than 4 hours.
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All-In [27184]
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Yeah. And I think there is something to not ever first world country being
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Feb 18, 2024, 7:52 PM
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identical. It's what makes traveling the cultural experience that it is. But Tucker and his fanbois trying to say "Moscow is better than Democrat-controlled cities" by pointing to 1970s grocery store tech is quite literally shamelessly dishonest since they no longer possess the self-awareness for shame.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Yeah. And I think there is something to not ever first world country being
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Feb 18, 2024, 8:00 PM
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I don't really know anything about Moscow, but I would love to visit. Not right now and probably not in Putin's life - certainly wouldn't want to live there. And, you know I have railed against European and Canadian speech laws, and I would imagine the speech situation is much worse in Moscow.
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All-In [27184]
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I think I've lost my appetite to see Russia, even if it embraced democracy.
Feb 18, 2024, 8:26 PM
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It's going to take a couple of generations to wash the criminal caste culture out of the population. But, as you said, Russia is definitely out under Putin, and for some time thereafter as long as the regime is still in place. I do not understand why people travel to places with unpredictable regimes.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: I think I've lost my appetite to see Russia, even if it embraced democracy.
Feb 18, 2024, 8:37 PM
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I would love to visit the rural mountains. The pictures look cool. Not sure how I would like the people. I have had experience with a handful of Russians in my life, and only one was tolerable to be around.
I don't know. I have a friend that goes to some pretty sketchy places. He just likes to check things out, and has a tolerance for that kind of risk.
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All-In [27184]
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Any potential for a stay in Russian prison would kill any sense of adventure
Feb 18, 2024, 8:43 PM
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I could muster. However, one of the "off limits" places I'd love to visit is Iran. And not just because Persian women are my #1s. It's a heavily Western-inclined population trapped under a theocratic regime. As soon as it falls, that place is going to be wild.
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Hall of Famer [24160]
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Re: Any potential for a stay in Russian prison would kill any sense of adventure
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Feb 18, 2024, 8:48 PM
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Yeah - I would like to hit that up too. Tehran looks like a beautiful city. Who knows, maybe things will change there.
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All-In [27184]
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We forget Tehran was a world cultural hub not that long ago.***
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Feb 18, 2024, 8:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [13174]
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Who cares***
Feb 18, 2024, 6:56 PM
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Orange Blooded [2103]
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The far right attacks cities because of voting patterns....
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Feb 18, 2024, 6:57 PM
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Urban areas tend to vote with Democrats. Suburban areas have oscillated, but lately have gone to the Democrats. Republicans have done the best in Rural areas.
And all of the above is why the Right attacks urban areas and pretends that "Real America" is rural. And they are pretending, by the way. Many of these right-wing provocateurs live in Urban areas. They're opportunists.
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All-In [44067]
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To them, big cities are all crime-ridden, liberal cesspools
Feb 18, 2024, 10:45 PM
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full of bad people.
And if we don’t do something, the entire country will end up like that, even their charming small town where there is no crime and everyone is nice.
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Lot o points [156045]
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I know here in middle TN, there are hundreds of
Feb 19, 2024, 8:41 AM
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City loving, hyper-tolerant liberals relocating from LA and the Bay Area daily.
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All-In [31520]
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Re: In defense of the Great American City
Feb 19, 2024, 10:11 AM
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I once watched a homeless man take a giant messy dump on the Chicago blue line about 4 stops beyond OHare. He circled a couple times first, like a pensive labrador.
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