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All-In [26968]
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For objectors to the mask guidance, I think the thing I
Jul 29, 2021, 9:52 AM
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disagree with them the most on is the negative consequence of masks.
I've seen people decrying a lack of evidence that masks are needed. That's a fair point, perhaps. But, in the manufacturing/safety world I come from, in the face of uncertainty or a lack of evidence, you do the conservative safe thing until you have evidence that shows it's not needed.
This changes if the measure you are implementing would create a hazard in itself. I'm sorry, but masks don't hurt anyone except maybe their pride, or their convenience. If we think it's possible masks will help prevent another spike, then that has to be what the CDC recommends. Has to be.
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Lot o points [156255]
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*…on which I disagree with them the most…****
Jul 29, 2021, 9:53 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I read somewhere that the rule against
Jul 29, 2021, 9:55 AM
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ending a clause with a preposition was baloney, so I've relaxed my personal stance the which I'm on.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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I've seen people decrying that the rule against ending a
Jul 29, 2021, 10:03 AM
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clause with a preposition was baloney. That's a fair point, perhaps. But, in the manufacturing/safety world I come from, in the face of uncertainty or a lack of evidence, you do the conservative safe thing until you have evidence that shows it's not needed.
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Lot o points [156255]
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Also, I believe that flatulence spreads Covid.
Jul 29, 2021, 9:56 AM
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You need to cork your butt in between restroom visits. It’s a mere inconvenience with no safety implications, and until you can prove it doesn’t help, you need to do the conservative thing.
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All-In [26968]
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Humorous, but of course you realize
Jul 29, 2021, 9:58 AM
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that we have here a real-life situation of increasing transmission, that we need to do something about.
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Lot o points [156255]
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And I’m not joking. Farts spread infectious microbes.
Jul 29, 2021, 10:08 AM
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At what point do you arbitrarily draw the line between “conservative and Non-harmful” and “irrational”?
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All-In [26968]
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I don't arbitrarily draw the line.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:17 AM
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It's a subjective matter. I believe that wearing a mask is not an over-the-top recommendation. I've been wearing one every day for well over a year, because I'm required to. It's a little annoying at times, but my life is not negatively affected.
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All-In [34145]
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Right, but that's only because you're not a snowflake.
Jul 29, 2021, 12:53 PM
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What do we say to the snowflakes who get an owwie from wearing masks?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Right, but that's only because you're not a snowflake.
Jul 29, 2021, 12:59 PM
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All-In [34145]
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Re: Right, but that's only because you're not a snowflake.
Jul 29, 2021, 1:03 PM
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Presumably you are making an argument of some sort, but I fail to see how your post applies to non-race-running snowflakes who complain simply because masks make them sad.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Right, but that's only because you're not a snowflake.
Jul 29, 2021, 1:08 PM
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All-In [34145]
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Re: Right, but that's only because you're not a snowflake.
Jul 29, 2021, 1:14 PM
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Fauci made distinctions between how well they protect you from other people (less) vs. how much they protect other people from you (more).
Other than that I agree with everything you said. Oh except your last sentence: Why should I be nice to snowflakes? Picking on them is a P&R tradition.
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All-In [26968]
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That is, there is actual evidence that
Jul 29, 2021, 10:02 AM
[ in reply to Also, I believe that flatulence spreads Covid. ] |
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the vaccinated can spread and are spreading the Delta variant, even if to a lesser extent than the unvaccinated, and we don't necessarily have data that proves otherwise. So until we know for sure that the vaccinated can't spread it, then let's put a non-harmful measure in place to try to help.
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All-TigerNet [13273]
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Re: That is, there is actual evidence that
Jul 29, 2021, 11:11 AM
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The variants came from other countries. In the time I typed this, 10k more unvaccinated and probably sick people from South America and Mexico came across the border and were shipped to the town of their choice. Until you stop that, your mandates on anyone else if gd fkn retrded. FACT.
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All-In [26968]
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The CDC can't direct immigration policy.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:13 AM
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The CDC can only recommend health measures.
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All-TigerNet [13273]
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Re: The CDC can't direct immigration policy.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:20 AM
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wouldn't CLOSING THE FKN BORDER be the #! recommendation? (if every decision they made wasn't political)
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know that they can really do that sort of thing
Jul 29, 2021, 11:22 AM
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What I seem from the CDC is usually personal guidance, for individuals.
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [26968]
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Strong social distancing guidance
Jul 29, 2021, 9:57 AM
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would have more significant consequences, as businesses would likely be affected, but mask guidance doesn't really do anything bad to anyone.
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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So wear one.***
Jul 29, 2021, 10:17 AM
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All-In [26968]
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The context is what the CDC should be recommending***
Jul 29, 2021, 11:12 AM
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All-In [47964]
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It was reported by WaPo (who actually did the math, unlike
Jul 29, 2021, 10:04 AM
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the CDC apparently) you have a 0.007% chance of dying by a lightning strike and a 0.005% chance of dying from Covid if you've had the vax.
Do you really believe a mask will reduce that 0.005%?
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All-In [49307]
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it seems like the CDC, like most Americans, gets confused
Jul 29, 2021, 10:13 AM
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about who masks protect. It started out that wearing a mask was to protect others, not the wearer. Now it seems even the official opinion is that it offers some amount of protection to the wearer.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Trainer [27]
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All-In [26968]
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Oculus Spirit [79508]
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I think the argument could be made that in practice most
Jul 29, 2021, 10:07 AM
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masks do not get washed regularly, are reused almost infinitely, and are placed into or on dirty surfaces with such frequency that they could very well be detrimental to the wearer.
If we were talking about one time use N95's for everyone, that would be a different story. But we're not, we're talking about Nana's homemade mask she constructed out of your old Ninja Turtles T-shirt that lives in your vehicles center console when not in use.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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or the one that I grab in the ashtray outside of the
Jul 29, 2021, 10:33 AM
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doctors office because I haven't worn a mask in months.
hypothetically
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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Every word of that supports the idea that each person is
Jul 29, 2021, 10:14 AM
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free to make their own decision, with no holier-than-thou rants from anyone.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Every word of that supports the idea that each person is
Jul 29, 2021, 10:54 AM
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Hall of Famer [24515]
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"Even though you have all the information we have, we
Jul 29, 2021, 11:14 AM
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are not 100% sure about something so we are demanding X action by you."
What could possibly go wrong with that? And from this govt. We have lost our minds and our will. You know the entitled upper class hipsters who play lacrosse at schools with names that include the word "Hall"? The ones we love to hate? We are them.
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All-In [26968]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: The CDC cannot and will not mandate anything.***
Jul 29, 2021, 11:18 AM
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All-In [26968]
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My post was not about whether mask mandates
Jul 29, 2021, 11:19 AM
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are proper. That is a different subject.
My post was about the appropriateness of CDC guidance.
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All-In [26968]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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you know what works even better than masks?
Jul 29, 2021, 10:22 AM
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never leaving your house or getting near a human.
I suggest you follow that guidance.
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All-In [26968]
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The CDC can't and wouldn't recommend that,
Jul 29, 2021, 11:15 AM
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as it would be crippling for the country.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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are you saying you want people to die over the economy?
Jul 29, 2021, 11:20 AM
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thats what it sounds like.
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All-In [26968]
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Many more people would die if no one left the
Jul 29, 2021, 11:21 AM
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house, than would die from COVID. Many, many more. There would be no electricity, no medical care. I mean, this seems fairly obvious.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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no, just essential workers. You need to do your part
Jul 29, 2021, 11:24 AM
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and stay home. Facts are facts. You can't contract or give the virus to others if you don't go near them.
I'm not sure why you are fighting science
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110%er [9086]
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Re: For objectors to the mask guidance, I think the thing I
Jul 29, 2021, 11:21 AM
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CDC flip flopping has caused a lot of distrust
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All-In [26968]
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I strongly dislike this argument.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:23 AM
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CDC guidance MUST change. MUST. To say it's negative that the guidance changes is mind-boggling to me.
Are you saying the CDC or any other body must always stay with the very first thing they ever say, no matter what happens? You can't believe that.
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CU Medallion [64837]
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No, but you'd expect them to get their ducks in a row
Jul 29, 2021, 11:33 AM
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before spouting off the first thing that comes to mind.
Have you ever worked with someone that would jump to conclusions and fire off knee jerk reaction emails calling for action? The CDC is like this person, X 100000000.
It seems like at the top of the CDC they're saying, "it doesn't matter if it's the right thing to do, just do SOMETHING!"
I realize that virology is WAY over my head, but simple things like "is the virus passed through droplet?" "is the virus passed through aerosol?" "is it passed through flatulence?" should be pretty dang easy to answer.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't presume to think anything is easy to determine
Jul 29, 2021, 11:34 AM
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including the things in your last paragraph.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I don't presume to think anything is easy to determine
Jul 29, 2021, 11:45 AM
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All-In [26968]
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I didn't say they can't. I said I don't presume
Jul 29, 2021, 12:37 PM
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to think it's easy, or should be done very quickly.
I think in reference to "is it spread in droplets", etc., that has been figured out. But I don't think it was known immediately last year. It took some time to figure out.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I didn't say they can't. I said I don't presume
Jul 29, 2021, 12:42 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I don't have anything to counter that statement.***
Jul 29, 2021, 12:47 PM
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110%er [9086]
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Re: I strongly dislike this argument.
Jul 29, 2021, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to I strongly dislike this argument. ] |
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changing (improvements) are different than flip flopping
masks give a little protection, so just stick with that
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All-In [26968]
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Far as I can tell, the usual difference between
Jul 29, 2021, 11:36 AM
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"changing" and "flip-flopping", whether in the context of the CDC or politicians, is whether I like the change (flip) or not. That's been my general observation over a long period of time.
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110%er [9086]
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Re: Far as I can tell, the usual difference between
Jul 29, 2021, 11:39 AM
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whale, flip flopping causes distrust and you lose credibility
next thing you know, folks are hesitant about wearing a mask or taking a vaccine
look what it did to T3
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All-In [31938]
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It certainly does for people willing to form strong....
Jul 29, 2021, 11:41 AM
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opinions from 15 second snippets versus spending time to look to details behind changes in guidance.
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110%er [9086]
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Re: It certainly does for people willing to form strong....
Jul 29, 2021, 11:46 AM
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in other words, most humans
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All-In [31938]
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unfortunately...far too many***
Jul 29, 2021, 11:56 AM
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CU Medallion [64837]
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yep.
Jul 29, 2021, 12:17 PM
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I think we all agree on that (shocking, I know).
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Trainer [27]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Stanford is obviously a right wing school tho***
Jul 29, 2021, 11:50 AM
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Trainer [27]
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Re: Stanford is obviously a right wing school tho***
Jul 29, 2021, 11:59 AM
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Interesting. If you click the link to read the study you will find it has been removed. It was on there at one time. I read it. Wonder why? Something about narratives not aligning. But nothing to see here. Back to masks and more fear ####.
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All-In [40970]
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they got twittered***
Jul 29, 2021, 1:09 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I can't see the study,
Jul 29, 2021, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Masks don't work, here, science for you! ] |
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nor can I speak to the legitimacy of every individual study. But I believe the scientific and medical consensus is that masks are beneficial for reducing the spread of COVID. Else the CDC wouldn't be recommending it.
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Trainer [27]
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All-In [34145]
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#sensorship***
Jul 29, 2021, 1:14 PM
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All-In [40970]
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Re: I can't see the study,
Jul 29, 2021, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to I can't see the study, ] |
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Conclusion
The existing scientific evidences challenge the safety and efficacy of
wearing facemask as preventive intervention for COVID-19. The data
suggest that both medical and non-medical facemasks are ineffective to
block human-to-human transmission of viral and infectious disease such
SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19, supporting against the usage of facemasks.
Wearing facemasks has been demonstrated to have substantial adverse
physiological and psychological effects. These include hypoxia, hypercapnia,
shortness of breath, increased acidity and toxicity, activation of
fear and stress response, rise in stress hormones, immunosuppression,
fatigue, headaches, decline in cognitive performance, predisposition for
viral and infectious illnesses, chronic stress, anxiety and depression.
Long-term consequences of wearing facemask can cause health deterioration,
developing and progression of chronic diseases and premature
death. Governments, policy makers and health organizations should
utilize prosper and scientific evidence-based approach with respect to
wearing facemasks, when the latter is considered as preventive intervention
for public health.
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All-In [34145]
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Trainer [27]
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Re: I can't see the study,
Jul 29, 2021, 1:24 PM
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There is a reason to attack and discredit those with an alternate view. I wonder how much grant money Stanford gets for now towing the desired message or stood to lose by standing behind such a controversial study. It's just information. I say information that should be available. But big tech, big pharma and their henchmen like Dr. Fraud can't have that getting out. So suppress free speech and suppress any alternate view. Never saw this coming, ha!
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All-In [31938]
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All-TigerNet [10994]
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Masks don't stop airborne viruses.***
Jul 29, 2021, 1:45 PM
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All-In [26968]
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I'd caution against the use of absolutes.
Jul 29, 2021, 1:47 PM
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Masks *help reduce transmission*. Just saying "they don't stop the virus" is a strawman.
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Trainer [27]
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Just for ##### and giggles
Jul 29, 2021, 1:59 PM
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duckduckgo Sweden and how they are fairing during all this. You know, the country that didn't do #### about Covid. No masks, no lock downs, no mandatory vaccines. They must be decimated! But in REALITY they are doing rather well. But continue with the misninfo that masks curb the spread and these experimental shots are necessary without a real trial of their efficacy which some say is as low as 39%. Sorry friend, hard pass on masks and jabs.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know what "duckduckgo" means.
Jul 29, 2021, 2:22 PM
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I have read in some places about Sweden's situation. I'm glad if they are doing well right now. Among countries with over a million people, they have had 6th most COVID cases (more than the US) per capita, and the 34th most deaths (fewer than the US), according to the site below:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily charts, graphs, news and updates
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Trainer [27]
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Re: So a neglibile difference
Jul 29, 2021, 2:29 PM
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to the draconiam Orwellian states? Interesting, and I wonder what thoughts that peculates in your mind? Mine wonders if the supposed antidotes were worse then the actual disease. Just food for thought.
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All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
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I was just providing some numbers for context
Jul 29, 2021, 2:30 PM
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Not really making any statements about them.
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Trainer [27]
TigerPulse: 38%
Posts: 27
Joined: 3/3/06
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haha
Jul 29, 2021, 2:47 PM
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No thoughts? Not surprised. When faced with real facts that don't fit one's ideology those real facts are easily dismissed or ignored. Man, that is some mental gymnastics. Fact, Sweden endured no more or no less hardship than the orwellian states who enacted these draconian mandates. That is a fact. Now try and wrangle that into your narrative. At least open your eyes to the possibility that we have grossly mismanaged this whole situation. I say we because we all just let it happen with no thought that maybe our oversized govt and all the lifetime bureaucrats got it wrong.
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All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
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"That is a fact"
Jul 29, 2021, 2:51 PM
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The preceding statement is definitely not fact. It is an opinion. "Endured no more or less hardship..." is not an objective statement. It may be correct, but it's not a fact.
What happened or is happening in Sweden is not germane to this topic, to me. This is about the United States.
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Trainer [27]
TigerPulse: 38%
Posts: 27
Joined: 3/3/06
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I have to disengage as
Jul 29, 2021, 2:56 PM
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you can't seem to follow along but good luck with your mask and jab. Me, I happily ignore your narrative and dismiss it as junk science.
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All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
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OK.
Jul 29, 2021, 3:06 PM
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You are doing an interesting job of ignoring my narrative with your dozen posts in this thread, but I'm happy to re-engage whenever you are ready.
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All-In [31938]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 37222
Joined: 11/22/03
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This is a lot of irony to try to ignore***
Jul 29, 2021, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to haha ] |
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