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Replies: 191
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Legend [19586]
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12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:02 PM
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RIGHT NOW are transfers. 40%.
Clemson has zero.
The WORST of that bunch has a stat line of 17rc 345yds 3td
Our best WR stat line is 17rc 226yds 1td
Let that marinate.
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:08 PM
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Like a rump roast?
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All-Conference [403]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 27, 2023, 5:21 PM
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Like a rump roast?
I was thinking more like a steak tenderloin for maximum flavor.
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Legend [18303]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:09 PM
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We don’t have a true WR1 but one thing Cade does do very well is spread the ball around to everyone
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Legend [19586]
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I don't buy that argument either
Sep 26, 2023, 4:15 PM
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of the WRs in the nation with 17 catches like Beaux Collins, he has the LEAST.
There are 38 WRs with LESS catches that have more yards.
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Legend [18303]
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Re: I don't buy that argument either
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:27 PM
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Mfer I’m not arguing with you I’m stating a fact that we have a lot of people catching the ball, you can go argue with a wall
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Legend [19586]
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Sounded like an excuse to me though. Calm down Francis***
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:32 PM
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Recruit [94]
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: I don't buy that argument either
Sep 26, 2023, 5:10 PM
[ in reply to I don't buy that argument either ] |
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Bubble screens are yardage killers.
We throw the ball sideways too much!
I like our wide receivers. They did not cost us the FSU game....
Turnover and missed FG, like Duke....
Our Defense needs to get the ball on takeaways, and our Offense has to protect the ball.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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that's a lot of team cancers, quitters, & culture killers***
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:12 PM
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Legend [16921]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:13 PM
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Correlation =/= causation
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Legend [19586]
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Who's trying to argue that they're top 30 because they
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:16 PM
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transferred? Simply stating facts of the matter.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Who's trying to argue that they're top 30 because they
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:21 PM
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You asked us to let it sink in as though making a broader point. Sorry if I misinterpreted. At appears that 6 of the top 10 receivers play for unranked teams. So not sure it really means that much. Cade just threw for more yards than DJ threw in all but 1 game in his two full seasons as starter. The stats will come.
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Legend [19586]
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Cade is able to work this offense a lot better than DJ for
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:24 PM
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sure. But the lack of weapons at WR is still a glaring problem and defenses will continue to play 2 high and keep everything in front of them until we're able to make them pay with a speedy elusive WR. Cade won't be able to fix that alone. With a dynamic WR we blow out FSU.
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Orange Blooded [2984]
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Re: Cade is able to work this offense a lot better than DJ for
Sep 26, 2023, 4:36 PM
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This seems just like the “if we didn’t do X then Y would have happened.” Which seems to be an argument you don’t favor regarding turnovers. Odd.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Cade is able to work this offense a lot better than DJ for
Sep 26, 2023, 5:21 PM
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If you’ve read what I said, then you would see that I said that the turnovers lost us the game for FSU and Duke. What I said was a dynamic wide receiver could have won us those games despite the myriad of mistakes.
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Freshman [-79]
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Mere speculation both ways, but we had receivers open in every game
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Sep 26, 2023, 10:21 PM
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including Duke.
The receivers are fine and we’re finding new guys as well. The issue has been turnovers, period.
Case dismissed.
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Legend [19586]
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Yes we have WRs open.....underneath
Sep 27, 2023, 7:57 AM
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not deep because teams play us that way. They keep everything in front of them because we don't have the speed or ability to make them pay in the middle of the field. It requires that we drive the field with long drawn out drives without the ability of big plays. That needs to change to get back to an elite level of play.
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110%er [6139]
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Re: Mere speculation both ways, but we had receivers open in every game
Sep 27, 2023, 8:42 AM
[ in reply to Mere speculation both ways, but we had receivers open in every game ] |
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like Dabo saying we're 3 plays away from being top 5?
And no, our WR group is lacking. We've had multiple pro WRs on team going back to the early-mid 2000s. DO we have any right now?
TOs are an issue b/c we've had to play perfect games to win. And lack of playmakers is a reason.
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Sounds like you speak from experience ****
Sep 27, 2023, 5:18 PM
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Recruit [94]
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Re: Cade is able to work this offense a lot better than DJ for
Sep 27, 2023, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to Cade is able to work this offense a lot better than DJ for ] |
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So you must be reasoning that Travis has #### poor WRs cause he had only 6 more yards than Cade...by accepting and stealing or paying kids who only commit fir money you are promoting the gambling interest grip in college...for a little cash a gambler can get one of these fine `non committed WRs` to drop a ball or two, run some bad routes, come out lame and toss the game! Make shoeless Joe look like a welcher?..stay with our own boys!
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Legend [19586]
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So you're ignoring defense?
Sep 27, 2023, 10:03 AM
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Travis's WRs only had 6 more yards than Cade because our defense is light year's better than theirs.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: So you're ignoring defense?
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Sep 27, 2023, 3:18 PM
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And Travis was starting for his 5th year while Cade was starting his 5th game.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Legend [19586]
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That is just flat out not true.***
Sep 27, 2023, 1:37 PM
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: That is just flat out not true.***
Sep 27, 2023, 2:52 PM
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Yes it is.
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CU Guru [1016]
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How many of top 10 are transfers?***
Sep 26, 2023, 4:15 PM
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Legend [19586]
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3
Sep 26, 2023, 4:17 PM
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30%
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Legend [16921]
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Re: How many of top 10 are transfers?***
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to How many of top 10 are transfers?*** ] |
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I don’t know but I just looked and six of the top 10 receivers play for unranked teams. So how much would it help?
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Legend [19586]
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Them? i'm sure they have a lot more problems than WR
Sep 26, 2023, 4:20 PM
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Us? We'd likely be 4-0. The only thing holding this team back the last 3 years from making game breaking plays in the passing game is a dynamic WR.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: Them? i'm sure they have a lot more problems than WR
Sep 26, 2023, 4:24 PM
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Based on? Receiver play had nothing to do with the loss Saturday. It’s also pure conjecture that any of those top receivers would have come to play for an unproven Clemson qb. If Cade continues to improve that won’t be the case next year / portal period.
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Legend [19586]
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No WR didn't lose us the game but it sure could
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:26 PM
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have won it for us negating costly mistakes. Our margin of error is thin because of it. In years past we could give up a scoop and score and still win by double digits in that game because we had WRs that could get behind the defense or make defenders miss through the middle and accelerate.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:33 PM
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Our WRs had their "A/A+ game" Saturday for their talent level...........in the past when our WRs had their "A/A+ game" it didn't end well for our opponents.........ESPECIALLY at home.
we have a "keon coleman" type WR on our team and we beat FSU by a large margin...........regardless of the turnover/missed FG. Heck.....FSU WRs had their "B/C game" and they still beat us......AT HOME no less.
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Legend [19586]
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This is my point exactly...
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:35 PM
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Our WR corp had a great game simply because they caught the ball and got first downs. That was once routine.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: This is my point exactly...
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:54 PM
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Our starting qb, a true sophomore, has played 4 games as the full time starter. While Tenn was valuable experience he didn’t spend spring and summer working with the 1s last season. WRs are finally able to do what once was routine because, for the first time in over 2 years, we have a qb capable of delivering the ball in a manner that allows it.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 26, 2023, 4:50 PM
[ in reply to yep....you and a few others actually "get it"....... ] |
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Saturday was the third most passing yards we’ve had in our last 31 games (maybe more - didn’t look back any further). Cade has one of the other 2. Twice in the 4 games this season he has thrown for more yards than DJ threw in all but 1 game the last 2 seasons. A) knowing how anemic the offense was, why are you sure a true WR1 would have wanted to come here via portal? B) that receivers would have to replace somebodies. How do you know that substitution would have made an appreciable difference?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Cade is better than DJ.......how does that matter?
We had 3 GLARING problems offensively last year.......that wasn't all the problems, but they were the "on field/playcalling" issues:
-Streeter......problem solved
-DJ............problem solved
-WRs............catching ability/explosiveness/gamechanger/50-50ball getter.........problem NOT SOLVED.
to answer your questions
A) No WR, or anybody for that matter is going to want to come here until Dabo rids the "reality and/or perception" that Dabo holds against the portal...........If they know they're not welcome to begin with then of course we're not going to "get a look".....not a serious one anyway. Dabo needs to play the portal game to change that.
B)If there was a concerted effort and some strategic assessments it's not difficult to "out recruit" our already weak WR room..........a "keon coleman" (i use quotes to illustrate his type/position) would have more than offset the nothingness that Beaux Collins brings to the table.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 26, 2023, 5:11 PM
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Since Keon Coleman is such a subject of consternation what credible evidence is there that:
Keon Coleman was remotely interested in coming to Clemson?
That Dabo wouldn’t have considered bringing him in?
That Clemson didn’t make some inquiry as to the interest of Keon Coleman?
Only if you can definitely answer all of those could I relate to your position. I’m not aware that any of the three are true.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
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Sep 26, 2023, 5:23 PM
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because in Dabo's mind we were full and good at WR......I believe his words were......"we like who we got" that's essentially the same response when asked about ANYTHING portal.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 26, 2023, 5:32 PM
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That statement does not contraindicate my 3 questions. He’s not going to say “we tried to improve but it didn’t work and we hate who we’ve got.”
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 26, 2023, 6:31 PM
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You can glean from that what you will. Otherwise you’ll have to go off his actions in the portal. Which have been non existent with the exception of a couple non impact favor schollies to QBs that never saw the field and never intended on seeing the field.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 26, 2023, 10:08 PM
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I’m not attempting to glean anything. I don’t have enough info. Dabo has stated quite clearly that he expects to use the portal - that all teams will - and that he will use it to fill holes as necessary. I have no reason to doubt him. I can choose to believe that he’s lying and will not entertain its use knowingly to his own and the program’s detriment OR that he was sincere and has not found an available, interested player that fills a position of need.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
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Sep 27, 2023, 7:03 AM
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But we do know we HAVE HAD real weaknesses that have NOT been filled by Dabo. No matter what he says.......we're in the midst of his "worst" stretch since the 2010 season.........we have weaknesses. There's no way to convince people that CLEMSON is the only FBS team in the country that hasn't needed to or couldn't find a single impactful player to enhance their team through the portal.................if they are then Clemson just refuses to use it OR doesn't know how.....EITHER ARE BIG ISSUES.
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Legend [19586]
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This is what I don't understand
Sep 27, 2023, 8:04 AM
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Every single program in the nation (save for Navy maybe?) has used the portal to impact their starting lineup either directly through starts or through competition except Clemson.
And we're still hearing that Clemson doesn't need to? what? That would make sense if we were still better than everyone and at the top. We couldn't beat Duke for crying out loud. How can anyone of any intelligence think that is still a logical argument.
Sure we haven't had any holes at all.....because we just keep filling them with younger inexperienced players.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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It's illogical to assume the issue is the portal...
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Sep 27, 2023, 8:49 AM
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when a coach who has won 8 conference championships and 2 national championships says there has been no one in the portal that fits and would be better than what we have. You can point to stats from players from the portal at their new schools, but that doesn't take into consideration how our current receivers would do at those same programs, or how those receivers would do at Clemson. So we either think Dabo is lying, or has gotten really bad at talent evaluation. And it's hard to argue for the second, considering we were not out classed, talent wise, against the #4 team in the country. In fact, we out performed the #4 team in almost every category without using the portal.
We have a few issues this season...
1) We've had some really, really bad luck.
2) Our (#3 in the country) kicker hit a slump at the beginning of this season.
3) Some confusion on offense in critical situations, which is to be expected with a new coordinator.
I'm not against the portal, but the logic I'm seeing used to support it is really flawed.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: It's illogical to assume the issue is the portal...
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Sep 27, 2023, 9:27 AM
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The lagging effect of the portal took a few years to rear it's ugly head. The portal was "born" on October of 2018. Clemson was at a point b/w 2018-2019 season to where they didn't "need" it, not to mention the amount of players that entered for the 2019/2020 season were miniscule compared to the snowball effect beyond 2020. We've lost more, we've played more competitive games vs more "inferior talented" teams than we did prior to 2021 b/c of that. We are not immune to portal exits. We've averaged 8.4 players/year entering the portal from our team the last 5 years...........12 last year......11 the year before. ONLY to be replaced by EITHER walk-ons OR kicked to the "next freshman class"........ie FOREVER YOUNG.
And of course Dabo is going to say "there's no need", but that's b/c he has a very overly optimistic view OR IMO misguided perception of what the Taylors, Spectors, Collins, Turners, etc... of the world are going to produce............again, even Dabo can't convince an unbiased Clemson fan that since the portals "birth" in 2018 we have not NEEDED and/or could have GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE impactful portal guy to enhance our starting roster.............not when the rest of the FBS (sans a military academy or two) HAVE DONE.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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All we heard a couple years ago was a "portal" player...
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Sep 27, 2023, 9:36 AM
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Burrow (who wasn't even a portal player) beat us. It was used repeatedly as evidence that the portal was beating us.
And I am unbiased. I have no preconceived notions about what the problem is. I don't try and force the problem to fit my predetermined solution. I'm not anti portal, but I don't think the portal would have solved the issues we are seeing this season. Regarding the past two seasons, it's pretty clear that DJ didn't pan out. We also had a ton of WR injury at the same time. This season we have been plagued by bad luck and the #3 kicker in the country hitting a slump week one. The portal wouldn't have solved the issues that cost us the 2 games we lost.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I never said Burrow was a portal player......
Sep 27, 2023, 10:52 AM
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he was actually one of the last ones to transfer "the old fashion way" ..........I believe. However, he was a transfer that helped transform that team and negates the narrative that is also out there that "transfers are culture cancers and bad for team" (not saying that's what you're saying, but there's a strong contingent that say/think that).
The reason we've hit this "rough patch" is because we don't have the talent to overcome "mishaps" like before.....Cade is not a DW4/TL16......Shipley is not an Etienne......none of our WRs are a Renfrow, Ross, Higgins, Williams, etc........."back in those days" our talent could OVERCOME the mishaps (ie DW4 being "interception/turnover prone"). Did our WRs "cost us" the FSU or Duke game?.....not directly, but they also didn't/don't create the gamechanging/explosive plays we were used to seeing from 2015-2019.
I'm convinced that having more talent at the WR spot would have offset some of our "issues" relating to execution.............you're not...........we'll just have to agree to disagree.
bottomline IMO is the effects of the "portal" could really be seen starting in 2021 and I don't think it's "happen stance" that it coincides w/ our "struggles" in this current stretch............to an extent it's created some sense of parody across the country, but it's also been to our disadvantage to not USE it to better our starting roster.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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1) I never said you did say that
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:15 AM
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2) There aren’t players like DW or TL available every season, especially in the portal. That’s why they are called “Generational”. Blaming a staff for not having players that don’t exist is flawed.
3) No player in ACC history is ETN. We’ve got two really good ones though. Who were available, that we had a shot at, who would have been better than Shipley/Mafah as a combo at the time?
4) WR is a tricky one. We have been plagued by injury for several years. It’s really hard to predict injury. And unless we are cutting guys who are coming back from injury, how do we fit a portal replacement?
2021 happens to be the same year we had a new QB starting. One that, for many reasons, didn’t pan out. It coincides perfectly. Elliott didn’t suddenly forget how to coach in 2021. A new OC, who improved the offense, was still hamstrung by QB production. A QB who moved on and is having similar to worse results at his new home. And I’m not knocking him, it’s just the way it is.
Our issues this season are not the same as 2021 and 2022. We have a kicker that slumped starting in game 1. We have a new OC, and there are always growing pains when a new system is installed, and more than anything else, we’ve had some really bad luck.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Re: 1) I never said you did say that
Sep 27, 2023, 11:41 AM
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1) Didn't think you did, but also didn't want you to assume I did, just setting that record straight...........so fair enough.
2) I realize DW & TL don't grow on trees, but again..........we are/have been less talented there
3) I realize we have 2 "good backs", neither are "ELITE"........and again I don't think RB is a "problem", but regardless we're still "less talented" than we were in our 2015-2019 run.
4) WR is where I have a big issue.....I get injuries, but there is way more blame to go around than just "we've been injured for 3 years"........OC, QB, WR Talent are the big 3. Dabo has solved TWO of those issues. We're still nowhere near as talented as we were and/or COULD BE............this is where he could've had some forward thinking and dipped in the portal to grab 1-2 guys. Pick any open scholarship you want of the 23 voided schollies the last 2 years from exits to the portal.........throw it to a gamechanging Portal WR instead of either a walkon or kicked to the next freshman class that would keep us "forever young".........this is where my main issue lie with Dabo and portal.
I'm also not a fan of the "learn on the fly" assistants (ie grisham), but I think talent could override that if we had it...........I also think lack of development has lacked in that area honestly since JS left.
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Orange Blooded [2984]
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Re: This is what I don't understand
Sep 27, 2023, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to This is what I don't understand ] |
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Past offseason, Georgia lost 15 players to the portal last year. Added 4. Only one is a starter, and he’ll be gone after this year.
Prior to their repeat, Georgia lost 13 players to the portal. Added 1. Didn’t start and is not on the team any more.
First year of championship, Georgia lost 14 players to the portal. Added 2. Derion Kendrick was the only starter.
Not sure what to make of this information—maybe it’s about recruiting better. But UGA loses more than they get a year in terms of portal and seem to be doing just fine.
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Legend [16921]
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Re: This is what I don't understand
Sep 27, 2023, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to This is what I don't understand ] |
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You literally are not hearing “we don’t need to”. He has explicitly acknowledged he will just the portal and expects all teams will.
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Legend [16921]
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110%er [6139]
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Legend [19586]
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Correct
Sep 27, 2023, 10:06 AM
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There were 50 or more 4 and 5* WRs in the portal this past cycle.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Correct
Sep 27, 2023, 2:56 PM
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Most of the guys we have on the team already are 4 and 5 stars.
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Legend [19586]
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We've also had some leave for the portal
Sep 27, 2023, 3:05 PM
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what's your point?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: We've also had some leave for the portal
Sep 27, 2023, 3:12 PM
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The point is, you can't just say that grabbing a random 4 star guy put of the portal will fix the problem. We already have a team full of 4 star guys who aren't solving the problem as it is.
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Legend [19586]
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You can when that guy you grab out of the portal has already
1
Sep 27, 2023, 3:26 PM
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proven them selves at the college level.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: umm...Coleman wasn't the only quality WR in the portal
Sep 27, 2023, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to umm...Coleman wasn't the only quality WR in the portal ] |
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The issue is, Keon Coleman is not good enough to solve the problem. We need Sammy Watkins good. Or Tee Higgins good. Or Mike Williams good. Keon Coleman good won't solve the problem.
Plus, just one guy won't solve the problem. You need a whole team full of guys.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: umm...Coleman wasn't the only quality WR in the portal
Sep 27, 2023, 3:27 PM
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I disagree. If we had Keon Coleman we are undefeated right now despite any miscues. We already have an elite team. We just have Group of 5 WR talent. Bunch of busts at WR.
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110%er [6139]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 27, 2023, 8:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it"....... ] |
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wonder how many yards we'd have had if we had someone like Coleman on our team? You don't think we improve if we replace anyone not named Brown with Coleman? Then we might not have to play a perfect game to win.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: yep....you and a few others actually "get it".......
Sep 27, 2023, 3:13 PM
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Nope. He's not good enough to solve the problem.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: No WR didn't lose us the game but it sure could
Sep 27, 2023, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to No WR didn't lose us the game but it sure could ] |
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The problem is that you have to have more than one dynamic receiver. Otherwise the one guy just gets double teamed and the other guys still have to beat their man one on one.
The reason we were good in the past is because we had 4 or 5 dynamic receivers on the field at one time, and you couldn't cover all of them.
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Legend [19586]
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I don't agree with this
Sep 27, 2023, 12:57 PM
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Our WRs can certainly beat 1 on 1 man coverage and have done so through this season. Man coverage isn't the issue. The issue is 2 high safeties and defenses keeping everything in front of them. A speedy elusive WR would put a stop to that quick like.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I don't agree with this
Sep 27, 2023, 3:14 PM
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You can disagree all you want, but it's the truth.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I don't agree with this
Sep 27, 2023, 3:21 PM
[ in reply to I don't agree with this ] |
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That still wouldn't solve the problem. It's similar to the issue at running back. Take Phil Mafah's big run. Yeah it was a good play, but Mafah wasn't fast enough to go all the way, so we still end up with 30 odd yards to go, which means more opportunity for a turnover or missed field goal.
Same thing with the receivers. If Beaux Collins gets one step on the defender and gets 20 yards, ok great, but we still have 30/40 yards left to go. We still have to have 10-12 play drives without mistakes to score, which obviously isn't our forte.
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Legend [19586]
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Yeah but that's my point
Sep 27, 2023, 3:28 PM
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We need the speed at WR to break the 2 high. They're giving us the middle intermediate field because DC's know our WRs can't beat them in space. They're not fast enough and not elusive enough. A WR that can take it the house if they get the ball in space and make defenders miss will force those safety's up to contest the ball.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Yeah but that's my point
Sep 27, 2023, 3:41 PM
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And Keon Colenan won't solve that problem.
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Legend [19586]
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a Keon Coleman would def help
Sep 27, 2023, 3:47 PM
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and there were much better WRs in the portal than Coleman.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 26, 2023, 4:34 PM
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Our best wr was out last game. Brown is looking like a stud. I feel like Collins can be good but idk why we don't throw to him more. Kicker and fumbling the ball is our issue. Not wr.
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Legend [19586]
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Kicking and Fumbling are why we lost 2 games.
3
Sep 26, 2023, 4:36 PM
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WR is why we didn't win despite the kicking and fumbling.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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our best WR is Brown....
Sep 26, 2023, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation ] |
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you feel like Collins can be good??
How many years have you "felt that"??.........I don't care what he did Saturday, he's been a MASSIVE disappointment and never developed further. (the latter points to coaching)
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All-In [44054]
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Our transfer portal is right there in our locker room.***
1
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Sep 26, 2023, 4:50 PM
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Orange Blooded [4685]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 26, 2023, 4:54 PM
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I don't usually go looking through other people's garbage for something to put in my house.
But then again, maybe on occassion I would consider picking up something that looked nice if it had a free sign on it, and I had a need for it.
Maybe Dabo hasn't seen any 'coffee tables' better than the one we have. Or maybe they want to charge us a bunch of NIL bucks to PROTAL over. I'm not sold on the sustainability of the NIL PROTAL mercenary format.
But I will admit, Keon Coleman does seem to be a decent 'coffee table.'
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Legend [19586]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
2
Sep 26, 2023, 5:25 PM
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The fact that you think the entire portal is someone’s garbage says a lot about what you know about the portal.
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110%er [6474]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 26, 2023, 6:04 PM
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We don't need no junk from the portal. Only junk in the portal. Well... that's what I heard from Dabo anyway.
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Orange Blooded [4306]
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when the top recruits hit the portal
Sep 26, 2023, 6:33 PM
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Clemson will be there
right now
nobody has been as good as our WRs . except a few that go between Ohio State and Alabama
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Legend [19586]
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Re: when the top recruits hit the portal
1
Sep 26, 2023, 8:48 PM
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I can name 30 or more WRs that have hit the portal in the last 3 years better than our entire wr corps.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: when the top recruits hit the portal
Sep 27, 2023, 3:25 PM
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Ok let's have the list.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: when the top recruits hit the portal
1
Sep 27, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Wan'Dale Robinson
Puka Nacua
Jameson Williams
Charleston Rambo
Jordan Addison
Mario Williams
Jermaine Burton
Jacob Cowing
Kobe Hudson
Brendan Rice
Antwane Wells
Bru McCoy
Tayvion Robinson
Adonai Mitchell
Tez Walker
Dominic Lovette
Keon Coleman
J Michael Sturdivant
Jordan Hudson
Dorian Singer
Ali Jennings
Dante Cephas
Jamari Thrash
Dont'e Thornton
De'Zhaun Stribling
Zakhari Franklin
Tre Harris
Tyrin Smith
Xzavier Henderson
Lorenzo Styles
And theres alot more. I just stopped at 30
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: when the top recruits hit the portal
1
Sep 27, 2023, 3:43 PM
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Now prove how those guys are better than what we have now, and also prove hiw those guys are good enough to fix the problem.
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Legend [19586]
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I'm sure you can google their stats and/or highlights***
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Sep 27, 2023, 3:47 PM
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Legend [16158]
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The Biletnikoff award winner from 21 was in the portal the
Sep 27, 2023, 5:04 PM
[ in reply to when the top recruits hit the portal ] |
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year after he won it...He was better than anybody we had
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Legend [19586]
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Injuries happen. He had a leg injury that he played with
Sep 29, 2023, 9:43 AM
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for 3/4 of the season.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Sounds like we are cutting the USC staff some slack
Sep 29, 2023, 12:19 PM
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because of WR injury. Interesting.
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Varsity [238]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 27, 2023, 12:45 AM
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Boring!
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Standout [340]
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who gives a sheatt? we're not losing games right now because
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Sep 27, 2023, 1:03 AM
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can't pass the ball. That was last year, and the year before.
Stop looking for the easy, coercive, collusive, Democrat-approved answer...
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Legend [19586]
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Re: who gives a sheatt? we're not losing games right now because
Sep 27, 2023, 8:09 AM
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Cade is a good QB right now and is going to be a great QB. In his starts against power 5 programs we have scored 14, 7 and 24
He's not the problem for that. Even if you negated the costly unexplained turnovers in those games it would be 14,24,27.
I think we should be putting up 30-40 points easily and we can't because of our WR corp. That's my evaluation.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: who gives a sheatt? we're not losing games right now because
Sep 27, 2023, 3:28 PM
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And there aren't enough players in the portal goid enough to solve that problem.
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Legend [19586]
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I take it you've never seen the portal or just don't follow
Sep 27, 2023, 3:37 PM
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CFB?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I take it you've never seen the portal or just don't follow
Sep 27, 2023, 3:44 PM
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No I've seen it.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Dabo has won 79.9% of his games as a head coach...
1
Sep 27, 2023, 8:36 AM
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Dabo has won 81% of his games since the advent of the portal.
That's the dry rub.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Dabo has won 79.9% of his games as a head coach...
Sep 27, 2023, 10:20 AM
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So you use his rebuilding years to give us fuzzy math....come on FM
2008 .571
2009 .643
2010 .462
2011 .714
2012 .846
2013 .846
2014 .769
2015 .933
2016 .933
2017 .857
2018 1.000
Portal Starts
2019 .933
2020 .833
2021 .769
2022 .786
2023 .500
2008 bowl
2009 ACCCG L/bowl
2010 bowl
2011 ACCG W/Orange
2013 ACCG W/Orange
2014 bowl
2015 ACCG W/NC L
2016 ACCG W/NC W
2017 ACCG W/Semi L
2018 ACCG W/NC W
Portal Starts
2019 ACCG W/ NC L
2020 ACCG W/Semi L
2021 bowl
2022 ACCG W/bowl
2023 ? (likely bowl)
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Im using every year
1
Sep 27, 2023, 10:32 AM
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But so far I’ve been told, by more posters than just you, that we can only use the very best years Dabo had before the advent of the portal and the very worst years after the advent of the portal. Odd.
There also appears to be a direct correlation between the slump and one key component of our offense…
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Im using every year
Sep 27, 2023, 10:38 AM
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What component would that be?
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Im beginning to see why you
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Sep 27, 2023, 10:57 AM
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are putting all the blame on the portal. No one has guided you towards other areas to evaluate.
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Legend [19586]
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No, I'm waiting for you to say what I think you're going to
Sep 27, 2023, 11:09 AM
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say so that I can rip it apart.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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DJ hamstrung our offense.
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:16 AM
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DJ was an issue for us.
WR injury was also an issue, but our major issue was QB.
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Legend [19586]
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Is Kelly Bryant a better QB than Cade Klubnik?***
Sep 27, 2023, 11:23 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I dont think so
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:25 AM
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But I’ve only seen a really small sample size of Cade so far. It appears Cade has a much higher ceiling. So if we are picking a team on the spot, I’d certainly pick Cade.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 11:34 AM
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So let's back track this.
Kelly Bryant, who you admit is not as good as Cade, threw deep much more often than we have 2021-present and had much more big passing plays than we do 2021-present. Won the ACC and took us to the playoffs.
DJ was a 67% passer in 2020 but he then goes on to "hamstring" our offense. Non-existent big play passing game for 2 straight years.
Cade, 66% passer thus far this year and you admit he's better than Kelly Bryant but still very few deep passes and almost non-existent big passing plays.
Wonder why a better QB than Kelly Bryant is still struggling to create ANY big passing plays if it's not a WR issue? But Kelly, who is no where near the passer that Cade is, was capable?
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 11:41 AM
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You also have to understand that other teams have gotten better as well and no not just because of the portal but because of NIL.
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Legend [19586]
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Better at what exactly?***
Sep 27, 2023, 12:59 PM
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: Better at what exactly?***
Sep 27, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Getting better players. What do you think makes teams better?
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Legend [19586]
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So you think our lack of big passing ability
Sep 27, 2023, 1:13 PM
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for 3 years is due to every team on the schedule getting better but us?
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: So you think our lack of big passing ability
Sep 27, 2023, 3:23 PM
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We were the top of the mountain. Only one way to go from there.
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Freshman [-79]
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You mean two years. And this year is more ball control but will eventually
Sep 27, 2023, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to So you think our lack of big passing ability ] |
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break one. Cade also needs to do a better job standing in and waiting on guys to get downfield. He’s getting better by the week though.
Again, we’re not lacking for receiver talent. DJ has been the issue that is causing you to miss whats really going on in the 2nd and 3rd levels. There are guys open every play. They’re not giving up on routes like they did with DJ, and you’re trying too hard to lump this year into tge DJ era.
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Legend [19586]
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3 years
Sep 27, 2023, 3:37 PM
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this is the 3rd year.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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You keep saying that, but
Sep 27, 2023, 9:32 PM
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Passing yards per game…
2014: 261.8
2015: 291.9
2016: 333.9
2017: 235.5
2018: 278.7
2019: 288.3
2020: 348.5
2021: 191.2
2022: 232.4 (DJ: 221.2/Cade: 299.5)
2023: 275.3
Average: 273.8
Passing is clearly back on track, we are above our 10 year average which includes Watson and Lawrence and all the great wide outs. Want to guess where our worst two years in the last 10 fell?
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I agree, let's track it back...
Sep 27, 2023, 1:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: I dont think so ] |
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First...
If we are picking a team: Watson/Lawrence > Cade > Bryant > DJ
Watson was 67.9, 67.8, 67.0, for a career average of 67.4.
Lawrence had a completion percentages of 65.2, 65.8, 69.2, for a career average of 66.6.
Cade has less than a one season sample size, but he's 61.0 and 66.2 for a career average of 64.1.
Bryant was 77.8, 66.7, 65.8, 66.7, and 62.0 (Missouri) for a career average of 66.2 at Clemson.
DJ was 66.7, 55.6, 61.9, 57.8 (Oregon St) for a career average of 59.8 at Clemson.
Which one does not belong...
67.4, 66.6, 64.1, 66.2, 59.8
For reference, Max Duggan at TCU completed 63.7% in 2022.
Interesting that the QB with a 59.8 career completion percentage happened to be at Clemson in 2021 and 2022. So yes, DJ absolutely hamstrung our offense. To the point we couldn't even operate our playbook effectively.
Secondly...
This is a testament to our coaching. Coaches changed the game plan to suit the QB strengths within the system, because clearly, Bryant is not on the same level as Lawrence, yet the completion percentages are similar. It has been well documented that our offense got progressively more basic the longer DJ was here.
Thirdly...
You are comparing Cade's deep attempts to the others, assuming the difference is WR talent. There is another difference... we have a completely new offensive coordinator and scheme. How many downfield shots is he being asked to take due to system? I'll try to research Clemson vs Dirt Raid deep pass attempts over the past few years. Also, the issues we have experienced this season leading to 2 losses are not the same issues we had the prior two seasons.
Lastly...
I acknowledged we had injuries at WR. But the portal doesn't change that. Our injured WRs are still the guys we recruited. That's not a missed evaluation. It's not a matter of not coaching them up. You aren't going to cut them because they had an injury. You are going to get them better and get them on the field. It's something that couldn't even be addressed with the portal until after the season was over. And then if you went to the portal then, you'd be fixing an injury problem that existed 6 months ago, not an issue you have today. Again, WR injury was a contributing factor, but it's clear what the major difference was is production.
So we can say it's the portal, because if we look at the 2021 and 2022 seasons we had a drop off in production and assume that's because the portal came about in 2019 and it takes two years for these things to pan out and once they did, we fell behind and our coaches didn't adjust... Or we can look at the data and see if there are any outliers that just happen to coincide exactly with the drop off. I bet (actually I know, because I just typed it all out) that we will find a common denominator.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I agree, let's track it back...
Sep 27, 2023, 1:46 PM
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If you've followed Garret Riley's career then you know he isn't truly air raid and has respectable run game BUT throws a lot of deep passes. His QBs (other than Duggan because Morris got hurt in the first game and Duggan is a run first QB) normally average more than 300 yards per game passing (both Buechelle and Mordecai did). We aren't close to that with Cade right now and should be. Is it Cade? I don't believe so. It's WR, the same issue that plagued DJ 2021-2022 who managed to throw for 342 and 439 yards in his 2020 starts. DJ wasn't a great passer but he was good enough to meet the same production as Kelly Bryant. We just didn't have the dudes at WR and still don't.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Lol
Sep 27, 2023, 2:02 PM
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Ok, let’s ignore the stats and assume WR is the weak link…
How does the portal help that starting in 2021? Which injured player do you cut?
Regarding DJ, and Bryant, they are actually both examples of how good our coaches were. Both fell off when they left.
The bottom line is you are determined to make this a portal issue, when it’s, at best, an injury issue (WR) or a QB who didn’t live up to expectations issue. Both are resolved.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Lol
Sep 27, 2023, 2:17 PM
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How does the portal help that starting in 2021? Which injured player do you cut?
None.
2021
- We don't offer Will Taylor a football scholarship and go portal. Let baseball recruit him.
- We don put 8 walk-ons on scholarship and go portal
2022
- We don't offer Cole Turner and go portal
- We don't put billy wiles and helms on scholarship and go portal
2023
- had we not put guys on scholarship in prior seasons we'd have open spots to portal
- we don't panic sign late 3 stars and go portal
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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So Clemson is in the playoffs the past two seasons...
Sep 27, 2023, 2:20 PM
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if we do those things? Even with DJ as the QB? Everything else, was good, just needed to get more WRs on the roster from the portal. Do you think DJ’s issue at Oregon State are due to receivers as well? DJ just can’t catch a break.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Legend [19586]
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Re: So Clemson has is in the playoffs the past two seasons...
Sep 27, 2023, 2:29 PM
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Well let's break it down by game.
2021
UGA 10-3.....do I think that game goes a different way if we have more talent at WR to help DJ? Abosolutely.
NC State 27-21 in OT. do I think that game goes a different way if we have more talent at WR to help DJ? Abosolutely.
Pitt 27-17 do I think that game goes a different way if we have more talent at WR to help DJ? Eh, Pickett was really really good. Not sure that game changes.
We def make the ACCCG for a rematch with Pitt IMO. Win and make the playoffs. Lose and go to a bowl.
2022
ND 35-14....game is 14-0 going into the 4th quarter including blocked punt for TD early....do I think that game goes a different way if we have more talent at WR to help DJ? Possibly. Won't say we def win.
SC 31-30...do I think we win this game if we have more talent at WR to help DJ? Abosolutely. I also think we win if we start Cade.
Worse Case I believe is 11-1 and headed to the ACCG where we already beat UNC. Playoff time.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Sounds like DJ is the common denominator.,,
Sep 27, 2023, 2:47 PM
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Which is exactly my point. But even then, the portal would not have solved that problem.
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Legend [19586]
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How is DJ the common denominator in anything I said above?
Sep 27, 2023, 3:08 PM
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lol
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Freshman [-79]
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Because DJ made WRs look bad. It was obvious with the increased performance
Sep 27, 2023, 3:19 PM
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once Cade came in, including this year.
We could have had (5) Jerry Rices, and DJ still wouldn’t have been able to get the ball to them.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Legend [19586]
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And I also said we'd have won despite DJ***
Sep 29, 2023, 9:46 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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DJ is the common denominator
Sep 29, 2023, 10:16 AM
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I’m not sure how you don’t see this. You also mention DJ needs “help’ in every scenario. Telling, especially considering no QB before, or after, has needed so much “help”. And saying we would have won “despite” DJ is acknowledging he was the issue, so I’m not sure why you are faulting other positions (WR) for not making up for his deficiencies.
Passing yards per game…
2014: 261.8
2015: 291.9
2016: 333.9
2017: 235.5
2018: 278.7
2019: 288.3
2020: 348.5
2021: 191.2
2022: 232.4 (DJ: 221.2/Cade: 299.5)
2023: 275.3
Average: 273.8
So we’ve established DJ’s completion percentage issues and yards per game passing issues. And even though Cade had the exact same team, he didn’t need “help” against tougher competition.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: DJ is the common denominator
Sep 29, 2023, 10:27 AM
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Lack of WR speed and dynamic ability is a much larger common denominator. DJ had no problem throwing the ball in 2020 when we had Rodgers, Powell and Etienne out of the back field. What's the difference in 2021 and 2022, 2023? WR.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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He had no problem in a two game sample size?
Sep 29, 2023, 10:36 AM
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And we don’t have a passing game deficiency this season. Look at the stats. We have a turnover problem this year which is primarily bad luck. I edited my previous post to include the prior stats. They are irrefutable.
Our production dip coincides perfectly with DJ’s time as the starter. The similar thing is happening at OSU. This is not difficult to identity, and it has been corrected.
You have a personal issue with the way Dabo awards scholarships and are trying really hard to feel justified, to the point you are ignoring facts. So we can blame Dabo for not going to the portal to get better WRs to make up for poor QB play, or maybe we can just get better QB play?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: He had no problem in a two game sample size?
Sep 29, 2023, 10:51 AM
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You're trying to equate passing games by comparing yards per game and it just doesn't equate that way. We most certainly still have an issue in the passing game with big play capability and it's glaring. Sure we can throw for similar yards, albeit still lower than most of our playoff teams, but those yards are grinding the field with intermediate throws which explains the YPA vs that of Watson, Boyd and Lawrence and yes, even Kelly Bryant.
Your stats are cherry picked and aren't telling the whole story.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Completion percentage and yards per game.,,
1
Sep 29, 2023, 11:02 AM
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aren’t cherry picked. Those are the two most frequently used metrics. In fact, you led with completion percentage, but abandoned that stat when it didn’t work in your favor, opting for YPA. That’s the definition of cherry picking.
None of this changes the fact you wanted Dabo to win “despite” DJ, which ignores accountability.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Completion percentage and yards per game.,,
Sep 29, 2023, 11:08 AM
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I didn't lead anything with completion percentage in a way to describe an entire passing attack. I used completion percentage to describe a QB being capable of passing the ball. There's a difference.
When you are describing a teams passing attack all the metrics tell the story not just one like you're trying to insinuate.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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1) I used two metrics.,,
1
Sep 29, 2023, 11:19 AM
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completion percentage and yards per game, not one, like you are attempting to do, which again, is you cherry picking.
2) “I used completion percentage to describe a QB being capable of passing the ball” Agree, we had a QB in DJ who was not as capable passing the ball as those who came before, or after, him. That was our problem.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: So Clemson has is in the playoffs the past two seasons...
Sep 27, 2023, 2:31 PM
[ in reply to So Clemson is in the playoffs the past two seasons... ] |
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Do you think DJ’s issue at Oregon State are due to receivers as well? DJ just can’t catch a break.
DJ is performing better at Oregon State than he did with his time at Clemson. Oregon St doesn't exactly have loaded talent at WR either though.
I'd also like your clarification on WR injuries. Are you saying the issues at WR for 3 solid years is all injuries?
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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DJ is not doing better at Oregon State
Sep 27, 2023, 2:53 PM
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He is completing 57.8% of his passes at OSU, he completed 61.9% last season at Clemson and had a career average of 59.8% here.
I’ll be away from my phone for a few hours, will try to repost WR injury stuff from 21-22.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Legend [19586]
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Re: DJ is not doing better at Oregon State
Sep 27, 2023, 3:17 PM
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Completion percentage isn't everything. As we well know, drops and WR play affect % highly.
DJ at Clemson in 2021 and 2022 had 6.0 and 6.8 YPA. At Oregon State he is currently at 8.1, nearly a yard higher than Cade Klubnik.
In 2021 he had 13 passing and rushing tds. 2022 he had 29. He is currently on a rate to achieve 39tds this season.
In 2021 he passed for 2,246 yards and 2,521 in 2022. He is currently on a rate to achieve 2,691.
In 2021 he had 2.9 YPC and 3.8 in 2022. He is currently at 4.5 YPC and has nearly matched his rushing tds in 4 games that he had in all of last year.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I went with completion percentage because thats the
Sep 27, 2023, 6:53 PM
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metric you established to differentiate the QBs in your post above. I think it’s safe to say that DJ underwhelmed at Clemson, his predecessors all had completion percentages in the mid 60s while his was in the 50s. His successor is in the mid 60s again. He is doing about the same at OSU, their QBs having a 62.4% completion rate in 2022 compared to his 57.8% now. Even if he is better in some other metrics, my point stands. Regarding WRs, you think they are the primary issue. I agree they have been an issue (injury), but not the primary issue. It sounds like your issue is not portal vs high school, rather your issue is with who Dabo elected to reward with a scholarship.
And I’m not trying to criticize DJ, I wish him the best at OSU, but it’s clear our issues, at least on paper, coincided with his tenure as a starter, and a similar drop is now being seen at OSU.
Clemson completion percentage pre DJ: mid 60s
Clemson completion percentage during DJ: high 50s
Clemson completion percentage post DJ: mid 60s
OSU completion percentage pre DJ: mid 60s
OSO completion percentage during DJ: mid 50s
OSU completion percentage post DJ: ???
I hate it for DJ, but those are the numbers.
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Freshman [-79]
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If you followed Rileys career .. come on man, stop pretending
Sep 27, 2023, 3:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree, let's track it back... ] |
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You watched a couple TCU games at most, same as everyone.
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Legend [19586]
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hahahahaha
Sep 27, 2023, 3:39 PM
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you have no idea....
When you bet on CFB DFS you follow everything and watch a lot of games. Have been for years.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Is this why you ran away from our conversation 3 weeks ago?
1
Sep 27, 2023, 4:34 PM
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Because you were wrong? I even gave you the keys to the answers, PPG at 50/50 = Passes /game.
SMU did not drive the ball down field, they ran screens and short timing routes as did TCU and now Clemson, but what they did do is run more plays per game, some tempo, thus more passing plays as a balanced O.
Here...
Max Duggans numbers are mo better than the other two from SMU, Y/A and Adj.Y/A.
It's always best to take care in understanding the drivers.
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/going-by-tcus-passing-ranking-last-season-is-33306096#33306096
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Legend [19586]
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Didn't run away. Never saw your response
Sep 27, 2023, 4:57 PM
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But I will respond here.
My assertion on that post you linked was that TCU's passing rank last year isn't an indicator of how often Riley throws the ball and to look instead at SMU's while he was there and that still holds true.
He threw the ball a lot more.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Because they ran more plays, he's a 50/50 guy. Period.
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Sep 27, 2023, 4:59 PM
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Max Duggan's numbers make you look even sillier for suggesting you followed Riley's career and SMU threw the ball down field more. That's not the case.
One of us followed/researched it and it wasn't you.
And I'm sorry, you don't have a lot of integrity as far as I'm concerned after reading some of your nonsense. You were wrong then and seemingly doubling down now, wrong still.
Stick to your emotional portal pleas, you're comfortable there, because the game itself doesn't seem to be your thing.
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Legend [19586]
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You're strawmanning. In the link above I never said anything
Sep 29, 2023, 9:49 AM
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about "down field". I simply said that Riley threw the ball more at SMU than he did at TCU and that is a fact due to Duggan's skill set.
You're trying to have an argument that no one else is having which is typical of where you go with things.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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No, you're just out of your element. His passing numbers
Sep 29, 2023, 9:53 AM
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were better than the other two, which I provided. Whether it was Y/A or AdjY/A or passer rating.
They only threw more as a 50/50 offense because they ran more plays, because TCU was more explosive.
You continue to run out your emotional tripe in spite of all the information against, which is typical you and yours. It's pathetic, really.
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Legend [19586]
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You can cherry pick stats and numbers all you want
Sep 29, 2023, 10:00 AM
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and spew out your typical condescension but you'll still be wrong.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Of all that's been run out as stats, yours seem the only...
Sep 29, 2023, 10:06 AM
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cherry picking supported by whimsical nonsense, which I don't blame you for at all, because the mountain of evidence proves you not just wrong, but football daft.
You're an emotional knee-jerk that logged on Wednesday night and again yesterday with no response, so it took you two days to come back with nothing, save personal attacks.
That's you all over.
If you're lashing out because you look stupid, then blame yourself for making it so, I simply point it out.
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Legend [19586]
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Some of us have lives outside of tigernet dot com
Sep 29, 2023, 10:13 AM
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But you do you DSP
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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That's why you're here again, with nothing save personal...
Sep 29, 2023, 10:20 AM
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attacks.
I didn't ask for a response in the last two days, just pointed out you were here and all you came back with after all that time was more nonsense now laced with nothing, but venom.
It's pathetic and leads all the way back to our exchange you ran from weeks ago.
You've no integrity here.
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Legend [19586]
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You have no self awareness.
Sep 29, 2023, 10:22 AM
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"Stick to your emotional portal pleas, you're comfortable there, because the game itself doesn't seem to be your thing."
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Absolutely, and nothing you've done has changed it.***
Sep 29, 2023, 10:22 AM
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 3:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: I dont think so ] |
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Ok and again, Kelly Bryant had Ray Ray McCloud, Deon Cain, Hunter Renfrow, Tee Higgins, Amari Rodgers, all on the same, just to name a few. He had a TON of talent to throw to.
And no, Keon Coleman is not better than any of those guys.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 3:42 PM
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Kelly Bryant's leading WR in receptions was Hunter Renfrow and Cain in yards. While Renfrow was excellent at route running and consistency let's not pretend that either of those players were WR1 level.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 3:49 PM
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And neither is Keon Coleman, or most of the other players in the portal.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: I dont think so
Sep 27, 2023, 3:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: I dont think so ] |
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And the other thing you CONSISTENTLY ignore is that you can't just have one guys. You have to have a room full of guys.
You also rely on stats WAYYYYYY to much. You have at physical skill. There are certain skills that we need, and you can't determine that just by looking at stats.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Legend [19586]
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Re: KB2 was a manager and treated with kid gloves as was DJU...
Sep 27, 2023, 4:33 PM
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the 2016 team had a lot more games with backups coming into the game early which can account for Ray Ray's 49 catches as a second string WR.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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The 49 catches after 49 in 2016 is pathetic, don't lose
1
Sep 27, 2023, 4:37 PM
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track of the issue, the QB.
KB2 was the main issue as was DJU in 2021, 2022. All of the issue, never, but the main one, absolutely as the O staff had to reel the O in, play close to the vest and keep TOs down to protect the defense.
Art Scott, the 2.
Yeah, KB2 was the issue, not that he was bad, he did great for what he was "allowed" to do, but make no mistake, the Offense played with a pulled hammy because of him. Same as with DJ.
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Legend [19586]
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Well sure I'm not arguing that Kb was great by any means
Sep 27, 2023, 4:56 PM
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But we still had a down field passing attack that year in spite of not having first round WRs as starters.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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No we didn't, we had a close to the vest, managed passing...
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Sep 27, 2023, 5:06 PM
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game.
Did they take long shots? Most spread offenses do on the plus side of the 50 because of their issue in the red zone.
It was a long shot developing on the plus side against FSU that gave up the scoop 6. It's a spread thing, I don't expect it to go away. It's good for business even if as with KB2 you don't hit it. Still, you don't throw deep into 2 & 3 High as the shot was against Duke. That's no bueno.
Deon Cain got better and faster, yet avg. 12.7 yards, which is horrendous from that kid.
Again, an absolutely fantastic job by the staff working with KB2, their best until 2021 and the head case DJU became.
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All-In [27193]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 27, 2023, 9:39 AM
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I don't see how this has any correlation whatsoever to the issues the team is facing right now. None, as a matter of fact.
While I agree we need to use the portal "selectively", I do not believe the portal is in and of itself, the magic answer as to what ills us.
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Legend [19586]
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It most certainly is the answer to our weakness at WR***
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Sep 27, 2023, 10:20 AM
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: It most certainly is the answer to our weakness at WR***
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:43 AM
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You have to pony up the money for portal players. Do you not think these guys are in the portal for a reason? It's not just for a change of scenery despite what they say. The players have to have a reason to come to Clemson and that reason is money.
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Legend [19586]
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That isn't true for every player in the portal, only the top
Sep 27, 2023, 1:01 PM
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of the top.
We also have and NIL assistance program. We have the money to shell out. Our program just refuses to use NIL to recruit HS or the portal which is going to be a huge problem.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: That isn't true for every player in the portal, only the top
Sep 27, 2023, 3:54 PM
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The top of the top is the only thing that will solve our problem.
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All-In [27193]
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Re: That isn't true for every player in the portal, only the top
Sep 28, 2023, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to That isn't true for every player in the portal, only the top ] |
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What in the hayll are you talking about? A lot of these portal transfers already have a NIL deal baked in. This just further illustrates that you have no idea of how any of this works.
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Legend [19586]
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You ask me wth I'm talking about then go on to say exactly
Sep 29, 2023, 9:52 AM
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what I said.
I said it's not true for all of them.
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All-In [44054]
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Dabo's unwillingness to use the portal to address needs
Sep 27, 2023, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation ] |
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is absolutely part of the problem.
But I don't feel that it's the main problem.
The main problem is that our coaches do not develop talent well. This is the problem with hiring inexperienced coaches who are not qualified for their respective jobs.
The transfer portal would help, because it would allow us to bring in players who have experience playing at the college level, who have had some level of success. This could help overcome the talented but underdeveloped players we already have on our team.
I do believe that a good receiver or two from the transfer portal, as well as a talented offensive lineman or two, could have made a notable difference against Duke as well as Florida State. We don't know if they would've made enough of a difference for us to win those games, but I don't think they would've hurt.
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: Dabo's unwillingness to use the portal to address needs
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:44 AM
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Yeah that portal has really worked for Brown L huh?
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All-In [44054]
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Criticize Brownell all you want, but he could teach Dabo
Sep 27, 2023, 1:39 PM
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a lot about using the transfer portal to address needs and improve the team.
There is no denying that Brownell's use of the portal has helped. And it didn't hurt our team culture either! Imagine that.
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Freshman [-79]
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Can you please list w/ps and accomplishments
Sep 27, 2023, 2:56 PM
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Seems the magic portal hasn’t been kind to lameduck Brad
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CU Guru [1045]
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:37 AM
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More than likely graduate transfers with lots of experience. This portal crap has nothing to do with executing plays and doing your job as a blocker. We should have beaten FSU period and Duke. Clemson beat Clemson not the portal.
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All-In [44054]
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With better players, maybe that wouldn't have happened.***
Sep 27, 2023, 1:40 PM
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Re: With better players, maybe that wouldn't have happened.***
Sep 27, 2023, 3:24 PM
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Yeah just like if the basketball team had better players we might make the tourney once a decade. That the kind of players you talking about Willis?
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CU Guru [1045]
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Legend [19586]
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But they are....many***
Sep 29, 2023, 9:53 AM
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All-In [31315]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 27, 2023, 11:46 AM
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Who cares they don’t play for Clemson but would if we needed them. Dabo has done stated his stance regarding this and beating a dead horse will not change anything. If you love and believe transfers is the answer go pull for FSU or Colorado. It’s rarely going to happen here unless we don’t fill our numbers with recruits.
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Legend [19586]
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We clearly do need them.***
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Sep 27, 2023, 1:01 PM
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All-In [44054]
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That's not working out too well for us, is it?
Sep 27, 2023, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation ] |
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We have underachieved three years in a row, losing to teams who don't recruit as well as we do.
You can defend Dabo all you want, but that defense seems foolish when we've regressed considerably since the transfer portal became a thing.
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Freshman [-79]
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CU Guru [1750]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 27, 2023, 12:38 PM
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Does that make up for the fumbles and blown blocking assignments by a RB?
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Legend [19586]
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Better WRs could absolutely make up for critical mistakes
Sep 27, 2023, 1:02 PM
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as it did for many years 2011 to 2019.
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CU Guru [1045]
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Re: Better WRs could absolutely make up for critical mistakes
Sep 27, 2023, 3:58 PM
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And again, those level of receivers aren't in the portal. You may gave one guy a year.
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Legend [19586]
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Not true. See the OP.***
Sep 27, 2023, 4:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [4267]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 27, 2023, 12:44 PM
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I've never worried about ANYTHING in my entire life as much as you worry about the stupid portal.
Give it a rest already...or better yet, why don't you just send all of your research on this topic to Dabo. He's the only one that could do anything about it anyway.
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Legend [19586]
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You are very capable of scrolling....***
Sep 27, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Orange Blooded [3227]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 27, 2023, 2:07 PM
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Are they all udefeated?
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Freshman [-100]
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We had a WR or 2 in mind but we didn't land them.
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Sep 27, 2023, 2:16 PM
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Ship happens.
The thought that we're losing b/c of the portal is a lazy man's analysis. It's low hanging fruit but like most low hanging fruit, it's beyond ripe and near rotting.
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Legend [19586]
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I don't think anyone has stated that that is why we lost any
Sep 27, 2023, 3:50 PM
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of those 2 games. The point is weakness at WR leaves the margin for error thin.
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Orange Blooded [4462]
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Excellent stat! Thank you for posting!***
Sep 27, 2023, 5:25 PM
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
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Sep 28, 2023, 9:32 AM
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You are Spot On CU!
I’ve watched it for four weeks and it is Frustrating.
Any point EVEN IF ACCURATE AND TRUE matters not to many here. There won’t even have an adult dialogue.
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CU Guru [1656]
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Re: 12 of the top 30 WRs in receiving yards in the nation
Sep 28, 2023, 12:47 PM
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too simplistic of a stat... out of the top 25 WR's from last year which ones would be a fit for Clemson and which ones would actually come to Clemson? We are not for everyone...
Hint... only four would be a fit... and that does not factor in NIL deals handed out before the players before they enter the portal. Coleman was one of those players that were "a fit" he left MSU where his NIL value was negligible and went to FSU where his NIL value is close to $1 million... nothing to see here right?
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