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All-TigerNet [11068]
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I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:01 PM
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was off the charts at the time. Disclaimer: I am not dumping on the team or the coaches, just want to talk football.
We seem to get burnt a lot by post routes over the middle, usually between 10-20 yard passes. (they sometimes go for much more with YAC)
Anyone have any ideas why this is? Are we just lacking at the safety position or is this a flaw in our coverage or what?
TIA
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Recruit [89]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:05 PM
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Maybe it's bc our defense is staring at the sideline so long they never get set til after the play has already been snapped!!
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All-TigerNet [10531]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:32 PM
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coots have a defense???? What would you offer as proof that the coots have a defense? Would it be the 350 yards rushing you gave up? Or was it the 390 yds passing you gave up? Or was it the 8 touchdowns you gave up? Maybe it was the zero sacks?
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Orange Blooded [2425]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:45 PM
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When we let them score quickly, that just put their tired defense back on the field for another long drive by our offense. Once we were ahead, it was easy for us to stay ahead. I never thought this game was in doubt, like some of our other games. Win and move on. Some games the offense wins the game and sometimes the defense wins the game. Give this one to the offense.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Once I saw they couldn't score from inside the 5 yd line, I
Nov 27, 2018, 12:52 PM
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didn't worry anymore about losing.
Then I saw that we could simply drve on them from anywhere on the field at any time, I really stopped sweating anything other than our poor pass defense execution, which was maddening.
It just became an issue of how much we would win by.
Completely snuffing their run game was the key to making sure that their success with the long pass would never be enough to beat us.
Also hats off to the KO team for keeping Deebo Samuel from doing any damage at all on returns.
I was most worried pre-game about turnovers and special teams scores from SCAR.
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Rock Defender [60]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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All-TigerNet [11305]
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To me it looked like the whole secondary was a bit
Nov 27, 2018, 12:21 PM
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discombobulated. Venables said not getting lined up right was a problem, which leads me to question who is making the calls? If the LB is responsible for relaying the calls to the DBs, they weren't getting in fast enough, we were caught flat footed a lot. I think our DBs get their adjustment calls from the sidelines, though, so something was hanging us up. My guess is we got outschemed pretty good by the chickens drawing up a new chapter in their playbook. Our LBs and DBs were probably where they were supposed to be most of the time but the chickens wasn't.
Can't remember if we played more man in the 2nd half, but that would seem to fix some of it if the coaches schemed it wrong.
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All-Conference [445]
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Their formations contributed to it too
Nov 27, 2018, 12:29 PM
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They kept putting lineman out wide in a bunch set for screens. When the screen wasn't there, they were going down the seam or post routes with the tight end or running back. The big plays from Samuel and Edwards were busted coverages. Everyone has off nights. At least it didn't cost Clemson the game
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All-TigerNet [11068]
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But this is something I've seen all year, not just satdy.
Nov 27, 2018, 12:33 PM
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And again, not dumping here. Not saying the defense sucks. Honestly the defense is my favorite part of our team. They do great most of the time.
But for whatever reason we have a weakness in the middle of the field. I'm thinking maybe our safeties are in the wrong spot or something. Like if we're in cover 2, they are too wide. I really don't know though.
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CU Guru [1043]
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Re: But this is something I've seen all year, not just satdy.
Nov 27, 2018, 12:38 PM
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Saw #19 miss on a couple of plays - either out of position or just missed an opportunity. Sure coaches will use film as a teaching moment and it will make us better.
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All-TigerNet [11068]
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Dude makes some big plays and I think he was going for the
Nov 27, 2018, 12:40 PM
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ball which is hard to fault but yeah, one of them was his bust clearly. It seemed to me he was playing his half too close to the sideline but I don't even know what coverages we run so I'm just assuming.
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All-TigerNet [11305]
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Yep. I seem to remember wondering why we were giving their
Nov 27, 2018, 12:34 PM
[ in reply to Their formations contributed to it too ] |
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receivers so much cushion as well. 3 to 5 yds is fine, but 7+ usually leads to a lot of missed tackles.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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As others have pointed out, we do seem to have trouble with
Nov 27, 2018, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to To me it looked like the whole secondary was a bit ] |
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a fast paced offensive scheme.
A couple of times Saturday our guys were still looking at the sidelines when the ball was snapped.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: To me it looked like the whole secondary was a bit
Nov 28, 2018, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to To me it looked like the whole secondary was a bit ] |
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There seems to be a lot of stress trickling through the team, from the coaches down. Everyone seemed tired and off their game last weekend.
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Letterman [282]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:46 PM
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it was just a bad night, we were out of position, not to mention carolina QB made some great throws through out game, it happens. I do wonder whether Lamar's presence will settle down the coverage
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All-TigerNet [11068]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 12:47 PM
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I was thinking that as well. Maybe Muse was a little eager on the run/short stuff knowing Lamar was out? I dunno
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Clemson missed Tre against the coots
Nov 27, 2018, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt ] |
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The defense was out of position on some plays, went for the ball on some plays, got beat on some plays and just had a bad night in general. I thought Turner did OK when he can in the game. I suppose the chickens have been working on the offensive alignment they used Sat. night all season. I think Tre Lamar was missed because he get players in the correct position (nothing against the Davis kid) .
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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I’m no DC
Nov 27, 2018, 1:02 PM
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But I think we’re asking our safeties to cover speedy slot receivers with no help over the top which was a recipe for disaster against the coots who had the guys that could take advantage of that mismatch.
I think the answer is to play more true nickel with a CB (Fields probably) instead of Simmons to be able to match up better when teams go 11 personnel against us. Or leave Simmons in and take out Joseph.
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All-Conference [410]
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Bingo
Nov 27, 2018, 1:08 PM
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Speed kills - and we have our fastest player sitting on the bench watching Muse and JD Davis try to cover Deebo. BV knows they can't match up so we played almost all zone, and our zone D was swiss cheese. We either need to tighten up that zone or get more speed on the field.
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Orange Blooded [4762]
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Re: I’m no DC
Nov 28, 2018, 8:13 AM
[ in reply to I’m no DC ] |
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Simmons is great at covering a tide end. Struggles a little with a speedy slot guy. Really tough kid and freak athlete though.
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All-Conference [410]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 27, 2018, 1:03 PM
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When Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle, and Irv Smith are on the field who are we going to have to cover them?
Terrell v Ruggs Mullen v Jeudy Simmons v Smith
If we use our base 4-3 D that leaves us Joseph/Wallace/Muse covering Waddle in the slot. I'm not hating on these guys, and I think parts of their game are just fine, but it's not fair for any of them to be tasked with trying to keep up with a Deebo or a Jaylen Waddle 1v1 - that's not their game. Mark Fields playing in the slot like we used to us Ryan Carter would make sense to me, but I'm not sure if BV will ever go down that route.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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We have to get pressure on the QB
Nov 27, 2018, 1:12 PM
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Nobodies secondary can cover receivers for ever and you have to pressure the QB. We had a few sacks against the chickens but they receivers were running free without the pressure the defense usually puts on the QB. You can try and put a lot of pressure on a QB or play coverage. Clemson plays better putting pressure on the QB.
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All-Conference [410]
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Agree
Nov 27, 2018, 1:18 PM
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... but getting pressure goes both ways. Have to cover for long enough to get pressure. A lot of the passes that beat us weren't long developing routes, our guys couldn't stay with them long enough for the front 4 to get there.
Playing more press could help this too. We were giving them free releases all night long.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Agree
Nov 28, 2018, 12:52 AM
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I agree too. Press would have given the front 4 more time. I still think we missed Tre a lot
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All-TigerNet [12943]
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you said "a lot".... I don't think you know what that phrase
Nov 27, 2018, 1:04 PM
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means
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All-TigerNet [10427]
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Read this article for the answer
Nov 27, 2018, 1:23 PM
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It only takes one person being out of position to blow a zone coverage. It's not always the safety who's out of position either. A linebacker underneath being in the wrong position can make the safety look bad.
https://clemsonpaws.com/five-but-what-happened/
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All-Conference [410]
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Great Article
Nov 27, 2018, 1:43 PM
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Combination of being out of position and lacking the speed to make up for those mistakes.
Better eye discipline and being in the correct position is a must. My concern in matching up with Bama when they go 3 wide - with the speed we're putting on the field we have minimal room for error. Put more speed on the field and your room for error grows. If we're going to be out of position, might as well be out of position with Shaq and Fields who can make up that ground. Just my 2 pennies.
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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Re: Great Article
Nov 28, 2018, 6:41 AM
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The Chickens used an innovative offense with the lineman split out and various ways to get Deebo into play more than usual. He's good in case we didn't already know.
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110%er [6882]
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All-TigerNet [11068]
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Rock Defender [60]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 28, 2018, 6:35 AM
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Good question especially Saturday. I’m the farthest thing from a DC, but from what I could tell from coaches comments it was a mix of getting the call, being confused by the formations they were running and therefore covering the wrong guy, and one guy just doing the wrong thing. Several of their big plays were inches from being good plays from our defense though. At this point we aren’t going to see remarkably different play in the secondary especially with everyone attacking the same issues, but I do think we get the benefit of some of those plays we almost made going our way which on paper could look like huge improvement.
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All-TigerNet [11657]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 28, 2018, 8:03 AM
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There is no simple answer. It depends on the coverage called, blitz call, or defensive personnel package based on the skill personnel of the offense . Sometimes it's players not being in the right place or it's the wrong defense call for the play. It's a chess match and sometimes wrong decisions are made.
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110%er [8134]
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Re: I tried asking this the other day, but the level of butthurt
Nov 28, 2018, 9:18 AM
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We blitz a lot and play man behind it. The blitzing is designed to either get to the quarterback or force a quick throw (shorten the time we have to cover). When we don’t get to the quarterback it is tough to cover tight for a long time and thus the completions and YAC. If we were playing more zone you wouldn’t see that.
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