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Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 10:57 AM
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Sometimes it is fun to go back and see how good of a prognosticator some of these chuckle-heads in the media really are:
"Clemson. The hire: Swinney, who was recruiting coordinator and wide receivers coach until Tommy Bowden was whacked in midseason. The grade: D-plus.
Swinney was part and parcel of a failed season, but somehow got a promotion out of the deal. Who knew that beating Duke and Virginia could lead to such ample rewards? Clemson fans loved the fact that the Tigers closed the regular season by beating rival South Carolina. But hey, Bowden beat the Gamecocks seven times in nine tries and look where that got him. Swinney has the same thing going for him that Sarkisian has at Washington: the in-conference competition in the ACC isn't that stiff."
In all fairness - Dabo was largely an unknown entity at the time so it is somewhat understandable that many (including some on Tigernet) were very dubious of the hire. I'm just thankful that Terry Don Phillips had the vision to see Dabo's true potential - that "D+" hire sure has worked out well for us!
Full article here: http://www.espn.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&sportCat=ncf&id=3777520
Looking back, I think Forde was somewhat accurate on Mullen (probably a "B" hire instead of "A-"), Sarkisian (who knew he was a drunk?), Marrone, and Chizic. I think he missed the boat on Kiffin (turned out to be an "F" hire for Tennessee), Snyder (not even in 2008 was Snyder ever a "D" hire for K State), and was way off on Dabo (turned out to be an "A+" hire).
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Hall of Famer [20518]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 11:22 AM
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I was totally, utterly, completely against the Dabo hire. I thought at the time it was a stupid move by TDP and the BoT that happened mostly because they made a terrible decision to re-up Tommy Bowden in 2008 after he played the woo-me game with Arkansas...and then fired him six games later, leaving them holding the bag for his $4 million buyout.
Along comes Dabo with his Big Plan: hey, I'm cheap, said Dabo. Instead of paying me a lot of money, why don't we use the savings to hire really good coordinators? (I think he signed for $1.8 million if memory serves, which still was something like a $1.5 million-a-year raise from his salary as WR's coach. I'd be glad take that kind of "cheap" raise myself.)
Well, the cash-strapped Clemson brass went for it. Dabo admittedly did spend a year bumbling and stumbling and finding his footing, especially with Billy Napier - who just plain wasn't ready - as OC, but then he hired Chad Morris, and a couple years later unloaded Kevin Steele and got Brent Venables...and the rest, as they say, is history.
Totally did not see that coming. I'll admit it. And I've never been happier to be dead-wrong.
The thing that's intrigued me ever since was: no matter what face on it they put, that was a desperation hire. But it worked: spectacularly...and I've wondered why ever since. One thing I came up with: usually there's an orderly progression to promotion in football that I'm not sure Dabo was really suited for. Usually coaches start as position coaches, become coordinators, and only THEN become HC's...I've wondered for awhile if that's exactly where the process goes wrong.
Coordinators are film junkies, x's-and-o's guys. I'm not saying Dabo is dumb or ignorant of x's-and-o's - which was actually a common knock many of us made of him when he was a new head coach - but is he really the personality type to lock himself in a film room and relentlessly crunch film for 50 hours a week, like most coordinators do?
Dabo's a do'er. He's a people-person. He's always in motion, always out and about. Clemson turned to Dabo because they were desperate and he was the best natural leader on the staff...but in any sort of objective job search his resume likely never even would have been considered. He just didn't have the on-paper qualifications...and likely never would have had them. I just don't think he's got the engineer mentality most good OC's have.
Which might actually suggest that the generally accepted progression of coaching promotion and hiring might not be the best way to go about things....
It's an interesting thought, whatever. To me, anyhow.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 11:49 AM
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Quozzel, in all honesty, making the more-tested veterans is the correct choice in most instances. I've worked for numerous companies, and some simply would not even consider un-tested candidates, and would only hire the most-qualified and proven candidates. Personally, I was opposed to the Dabo hire, and if given the same choices again, would not have considered Dabo. I have seen that business model work in almost every case, and it would have worked in this situation too probably. Dabo is an exception to the rule IMO. Yes - all of us that opposed the hire were wrong. But that's what makes the world go round.
BTW: Bama's hire of Saban was probably a great hire and fits my method to perfection. I even think OSU's hire of Meyer was a great choice. I was opposed to MI's hire simply because he had experience, so experience does not guarantee you getting hired IMO. I think UCLA's hire of Kelly is going to be a great hire, but we will have to wait and see. I think FSU's hire of Taggert is not all that great and I would not have selected him. ATM simply paid too much for Jimbo, and will regret that hire. Even though I don't like Kiffen, FAU hit a grad slam getting him. At that level, he is worth every penny for their program. Nebraska desperately needed Frost as their new coach, and I was in total agreement with that choice, even if he does not win the Big 10 anytime soon. They will be a respected program once again. I think Va Tech made a great choice too. They will be good again real soon.
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All-In [40875]
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I was opposed to Dabo until I heard his press conference
Jul 22, 2018, 3:33 PM
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and it was obvious that he was different
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110%er [5912]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire ] |
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This is the best, most accurate post I’ve ever read from you!!! Back in the day of Dabo’s hire and the year or two before and after...I used to read your stuff on TI and I really thought that you were an exceptionally smart person yet a football fraud!!! We actually went back and forth a couple of times and eventually I was kicked out and never returned...it was after you left that site but not too far after!!!
I’ve read your stuff on here for the past several years and it’s been much more accurate and much less controversial but, then again...what do any of us have to complain about these days!!!
Anyway...you are a Clemson football message board icon and I really appreciate your post...they are always worth reading ... no
Matter the opinion or subject matter!!!
Dabo was a D- hire for all the reasons that a college football program who fires their coach mid-season would typically go about things!!! Thank God for someone’s insight or their incompetence ... who cares ... just thank you God!!!
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CU Medallion [50635]
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Orange Blooded [4359]
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Instead of writing a novel to try and justify your position
Jul 22, 2018, 9:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire ] |
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wouldn’t it be easier to just say you were wrong? Many of us thought Fabo was a brilliant hire, but you don’t see us on here trying to convince you we were right.
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110%er [5010]
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I take pride in saying I was FOR Dabo From day 1!
Jul 22, 2018, 11:41 AM
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I had watched interviews with him and read quotes by him well before he was floated as a potential candidate. I even wrote to TDP’s office hoping to get his attention to give Dabo a shot. He as as a phenomenal recruiter because he could relate to people better than most AND he was genuine and passionate! He just had that magical quality about him that just told you he would not be denied his vision.
The rest is history...
??????
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Legend [16646]
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I had no idea who Dabo was
Jul 22, 2018, 12:01 PM
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At the time, but was aware of TDP's track record from his Okie State days (Miles and Gundy). I supported his decision to forgo a bowl after the Scok-fight game. My sense was he views through a different lens than many and, frankly, I AM a fan of the road less traveled. Churning CEO-types hasn't been a style that's been especially attractive to me. People skills, energy, and innovation are traits I admire, so I was good with the selection. I don't discredit Saban and his success at Bama, but let's not kid ourselves...his success is as much the Bama name as his efforts. Likewise with tOSU. All isn't as it generally appears...the truth is several layers down.
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110%er [5434]
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Orange Blooded [4545]
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Re: I take pride in saying I was FOR Dabo From day 1!
Jul 22, 2018, 2:09 PM
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That was a defining moment for me too. Not many people noticed that I thought. Maybe on TV they mentioned it, but I was there for the game and pointed it out to my family.
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CU Medallion [55306]
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Re: I take pride in saying I was FOR Dabo From day 1!
Jul 22, 2018, 7:31 PM
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I do also, but I would never rub it in on the ones that voiced their utter dislike of the hire!!! They are Tiger fans also that only wanted what they believed would have been a better hire, and I'm ok with that. Look where we're at now and have been for several years!!!
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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When Dabo was hired I was tucked away in the hills of...
Jul 22, 2018, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to I take pride in saying I was FOR Dabo From day 1! ] |
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East TN. I only had an SD TV and an antenna to keep up with Clemson football. I believed Dabo would be good for us when I saw his introduction speech. The man wept for joy. From my experience anyone that passionate about a shot to achieve is worthy of my support.
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Orange Blooded [2613]
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Hufferbilly, I was pulling hard for Dabo as well for all the
Jul 23, 2018, 5:56 AM
[ in reply to I take pride in saying I was FOR Dabo From day 1! ] |
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same reasons you mentioned but I also read an article about his childhood, the problems with an acoholic father, having to live with his mom while walking on to Alabama football team and working to help pay their bills and tuition. I figured if anyone had the drive to survive that he would be able to relate to young men very well and I think that and his great personality is why he is such a great recruiter! Sorry for rambling but I was one of his biggest fans after he got the interim tag and was able to learn more about him.
We are blessed as Clemson alumni and fans, no doubt!....Go Tigers!
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Astoundingly, there is STILL a stupid dialogue
Jul 22, 2018, 12:01 PM
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continuous amongst a large segment of chickenfans who claim Coach Swinney isn't a great coach.....and national titles, national COY awards, ACC COY awards, ACC titles, apparently just aren't convincing enough. Perhaps Swinney has re-defined the head coach position......perhaps a large segment of chickenfans are just stupid and green with envy.
Whatever he's doing---he's sure doing it right and it looks to be continuing for a good while to come.
Must've been gratifying for our HC to prove so many people wrong.
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CU Medallion [56756]
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“...perhaps a large segment of chickenfans are just stupid...”
Jul 22, 2018, 1:16 PM
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LOL.
Perhaps indeed.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Is Pat Forde still alive.***
Jul 22, 2018, 12:08 PM
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Lots of people felt that way, including many tiger fans, and including myself.
Jul 22, 2018, 12:10 PM
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Dabo proved many, many people wrong but how often does that kind of hire work out. Do you think Matt Luke is about to build a powerhouse at Ole Miss? That's about what the Dabo hire was like 10 years ago. He's like the one example everyone can point to of a guy within the program (who wasn't even a coordinator) becoming the interim coach, keeping the job, and then becoming super successful. History says it shouldn't have worked but it did.
I'm so thankful it played out the way that it did but I surely never saw this coming.
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Lots of people felt that way, including many tiger fans, and including myself.
Jul 22, 2018, 12:10 PM
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Dabo proved many, many people wrong but how often does that kind of hire work out. Do you think Matt Luke is about to build a powerhouse at Ole Miss? That's about what the Dabo hire was like 10 years ago. He's like the one example everyone can point to of a guy within the program (who wasn't even a coordinator) becoming the interim coach, keeping the job, and then becoming super successful. History says it shouldn't have worked but it did.
I'm so thankful it played out the way that it did but I surely never saw this coming.
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All-In [38422]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 12:14 PM
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How couldn't you have thought that he was a stop-gap hire ? Bowden's choice from a position coach to the HC ? At the time , if I am being honest … I thought he would be gone in about two to three years .
I was wrong , and he hasn't just exceeded the expectations he has completely restructured the expectations at Clemson for our head coaching position. Imagine following CDS … imagine being Hatfield 2.0 ?
I was wrong in 2008 about Dabo Swinney , and I am so glad to be in that majority today .
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1st Rounder [621]
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I wonder if Pat has ever addressed this missed
Jul 22, 2018, 12:22 PM
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prediction.
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CU Medallion [53716]
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Probably not. Remember when Obama said,"My administration
Jul 22, 2018, 3:33 PM
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will be the most transparent in history".....That is all you heard from the media.....Have THEY ever once pointed out how unstransparent it was.....
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CU Medallion [55306]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 12:23 PM
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It proves if nothing else, that you never know what someones talents really are until they have been tested. Dabo told everyone close enough to hear him that day, even the ones listening from TV and radio what his vision was for our Tigers, and 85% or more just laughed at him at the same time making up their jokes about the new Clemson Head FB Coach. Most of those not connected to Clemson that were laughing and joking about Dabo, they are the ones that are crying the loudest, and they are the ones that are the fullest of envy for what Dabo has brought to Clemson. If those same folks would have been told back then that Dabo would win a NC at Clemson in less than 10 years as Clemson's HC, they would have called you an idiot stating that Dabo wouldn't last past 3 years at Clemson, and that Danny Ford was the first and last NCG win that Clemson would ever have... Most of us heard during those times how the FB land scape had drastically changed, and that it would be near impossible for a small school like a Clemson to ever win a NC. The coots even stated that with ESECPN money, that they would move so far ahead of Clemson in recruiting that we would maybe only beat them once every 10 years. They had claimed back then that it had already happen. They also stated that they would even catch and pass us in wins and loses. My My what idiots they have continued to be!!!
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All-In [27367]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 12:31 PM
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Good thing Forde isn’t our chief recruiter or we would miss out on some no star recruits like Renfro and others.
Dabo is able to recognize talent. Mr. Forde isn’t,
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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Mullen was probably better than a B for Miss St
Jul 22, 2018, 12:34 PM
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That wasn't a very good when he took over. He averaged close to 8 wins a year and made 8 bowls in 9 seasons. That's pretty good for Miss St, especially considering how loaded Bama and LSU were for most of his tenure.
Kiffin is hard to grade since he walked out on them after 1 year. I guess you have to rate it pretty poorly given the way it ended. The Dooley hire was worse though. That was truly an F.
Chizik.. well he will probably go down as the worst coach to ever win a national title. It's hard to give a coach that won a title an F but he literally did two things right during his entire tenure at Auburn and that was win the bidding war for Cam Newton and hire Gus Malzahn. Once they were both gone he was totally clueless.
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Hall of Famer [22287]
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Nobody will admit it now, of course... but Dabo's hire was
Jul 22, 2018, 12:36 PM
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underwhelming at the very least. There were a few people who said - oh well, we could probably do worse, let's give him a shot. But nobody could've predicted it would turn out this well. NOBODY.
In hindsight, a lot of folks will now claim they were all for it. Bullchit. It's like the old joke about Woodstock... if everybody was there who later claimed they were, the earth would've tilted on it axis.
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110%er [5010]
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I still remember sitting in my office at work and telling my
Jul 22, 2018, 12:54 PM
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2 Auburn and Florida buddies that I was hoping they gave Dabo a shot and they said I was delusional, but hope I was right because Clemson would not be a threat If they did. Now when we talk football they shake their heads and just cannot believe how right I was.
Fast forward to the last 3 years and I have since acquired two Bama alumni as friends. They tried to tell me we would never beat Bama. I just laughed at them and once we did, their tune has changed. ??????
I keep telling them (and the obligatory UGA fans here in Atlanta where I live) that Clemson is here to stay so get used to it boys!
Message was edited by: hufferbilly®
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All-TigerNet [10487]
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Dabo is exhibit “A” for
Jul 22, 2018, 1:43 PM
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don’t hire a resume, hire the person. Dabo is also exhibit “A” for the boat Captain type of leader. On a big boat, the boat Captain doesn’t actually have their hands on any of the controls, others do that. The Captain directs the mission, takes input from subordinates and makes sure that the boat and crew are functioning as a cohesive unit, but he’s not touching the controls. That’s Dabo.
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CU Medallion [55306]
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Re: Nobody will admit it now, of course... but Dabo's hire was
Jul 22, 2018, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Nobody will admit it now, of course... but Dabo's hire was ] |
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Go back and look at the post at the time, myself and quite a few other T-Netters approved of the hire Of Dabo as our HC. I approved bc I had read everything I could find about Dabo. And what I learned was that he was a very smart man that had been in and around FB most of his life, and he had been surrounded by good college coaches and successful head coaches that became his close friends that he was plenty smart enough to learn from, and they were friends of some of the best people and coaches in the Business of college FB during that time. I honestly believed that if given a fair and long enough chance that Dabo with the advice of his most trusted friends in college FB would help steer him in the right direction if he ask, and I believe they would've helped Dabo if needed, to become a successful HC. I hope that I'm alive to read his book when his coaching days are over. I would love to know who gave him the best advice when his Head Coaching career began. If I had to guess, I would say that it was Gene Stallings if it was anybody.
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All-In [40875]
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110%er [8008]
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I was all for the hire and predicted Dabo would do great
Jul 22, 2018, 10:03 PM
[ in reply to Nobody will admit it now, of course... but Dabo's hire was ] |
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things at Clemson. Just search my post history if you don't believe me.
Most were hung up on getting a "name" hire. I had hired and promoted enough professionals that I knew Dabo had the leadership qualities to be great.
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CU Guru [1906]
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“What do they say, now?”***
Jul 22, 2018, 1:35 PM
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All-TigerNet [10487]
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I give Forde an
Jul 22, 2018, 1:48 PM
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“M” for his ability to evaluate new hires. I woulda given him an “F”, but he wasn’t that good.
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Oculus Spirit [90753]
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^^ Great Analogy Gumby!
Jul 22, 2018, 1:56 PM
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Exactly right about boat captain’s way of leading the ship & staff..and wonder if Dug uses this tactic on his tug in NY Harbor?
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All-TigerNet [13036]
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In his defense, ADs don't usually do much better
Jul 22, 2018, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to I give Forde an ] |
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You could probably label at least half of all CFB hires failures.
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CU Medallion [55306]
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Re: “What do they say, now?”***
Jul 22, 2018, 7:27 PM
[ in reply to “What do they say, now?”*** ] |
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THEY are still crying without much to say!!!
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Legend [17522]
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Not a Forde fan
Jul 22, 2018, 1:50 PM
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But I considered the Dabo hire an economic interim decision as most of us probably did deep down. And maybe TDP did as well despite the postscript current spin. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But after the initial misfire on coaching hires (and let's be real, what proven coordinator would want to work for a young unproven commodity after Tommy West & Tommy Bowden regimes), Coach Swinney proved us all wrong. He had something special -- an appreciation for the opportunity and the university, a passion, an authenticity, a sincerity that resonated with both fans, players and recruits. Clemson did not know what it had; we got lucky. No complaints. Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1154]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 2:09 PM
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Seems like I remember an article from Mackey P supporting Dabo for the job before it was announced. I remember thinking he was part of the reason for the choice. Whatever the cause, I'm so happy to have Dabo as the face for Clemson.
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CU Guru [1046]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 2:49 PM
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Finding someone who worked their way up through the ranks to division 1 head coach is usually promoting someone from a level where they were competent to their incompetent level.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Sports media news is just like all other news.
Jul 22, 2018, 3:52 PM
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Nobody expect it to exceed being a temporary source of entertainment. During the action of any particular sports season they report scores and other data pertaining to a sport but their opinions are no more or less valid and accurate as anyone who watches and studies sports.
Don't tell me they don't consider how many people will read their tripe when they are writing it.
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 4:37 PM
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I was among those in favor of Dabo from the beginning for the following reasons-
1) Very very few exceptions to the rule that all coaching hires are crapshoots. We weren't going to lure one of the guaranteed Saban/Meyer types to take a big step down in class which is what we were at the time.
2) We had demonstrated we could get a few star players and several good players but failed to do much with them. Dabo was our best recruiter so good players should keep coming in with him as HC.
3) Two of the reasons we were failing- Bowden's excessive loyalty to failed personnel and Bowden's nail-biting lack of confidence on the sideline. We needed a culture change and without interrupting recruiting, Dabo seemed to be the right medicine for that.
4) Back to the crapshoot- The only way we were going to get a great coach was to find him before anyone else knew he was great. To be honest, I thought the odds were extremely long against the kind of success Dabo has had, but I also thought that if we had taken the best experienced coach we could reasonably hire at the time, the odds of mega-success would have been zero.
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Orange Blooded [4247]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 4:44 PM
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I remember Paul Finebomb at the end of the 1st season pontificating .... "Clemson cannot win with Dabo... The thing they need to do is fire Dabo and pay RICH RODRIGUEZ anything he asks."...
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Orange Blooded [3348]
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Re: Pat Forde artcile from 2008 - Dabo Swinney was a "D+" hire
Jul 22, 2018, 9:29 PM
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At the time, I thought the hire made since. Anybody who watched the sidelines during the game could see Dabo was the man the offensive players looked to for leadership. They huddled around him during timeouts while Bowden paced the sideline talking on his headset. It appeared Bowden was grooming Dabo for future opportunities, but he probably had no idea that opportunity would be to replace him.
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