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Orange Blooded [4537]
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110%er [6825]
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110%er [9587]
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This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But...
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Mar 19, 2019, 1:25 PM
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I think we totally had our man with Purnell. And it apparently ended because of personal problems. Just our luck. That dude was going to do big things here, and his teams were so much fun to watch.
Not saying we can’t ever have that situation again. But they don’t just come along all the time.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But...
Mar 19, 2019, 1:40 PM
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He was a great coach for us but he also hit his ceiling too. I remember some folks getting frustrated at his lack of NCAA success. I don't think that OP would have made the Tourney after Booker left. I think Brad did more OP's players than OP after the departure. Still, he was a great rebuilder but I don't think he could challenge the top ACC programs.
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Commissioner [981]
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Re: This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But...
Mar 19, 2019, 1:45 PM
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Not many can challenge the top ACC teams.But we can be competitive and make the tournament.Once there with a strong roster you never know anything can happen.
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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to say OP had hit his ceiling & wouldn't successful anymore
Mar 19, 2019, 5:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But... ] |
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is just ludicrous.
There is absolutely NOTHING to base that on. The only year we were not in the postseason under OP was his first.
Not to mention... during his last 4 years, he won more ACC games than anyone not named Duke or UNC
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All-In [43550]
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You must’ve missed his recruiting failures
Mar 19, 2019, 5:30 PM
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and the fact that he didn’t have much in the pipeline after the 2010-2011 season.
Check Brad’s second season for evidence of this drop off in talent.
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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Right... here we are again blaming OP for Brad's poor 2nd
Mar 19, 2019, 5:34 PM
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season. When does BB's tenure officially start? I'm curious.
Year 3? He's only one 11 ACC games against teams with a record above .500 since then. He's only been to the postseason 4 times since then, with one NCAAT.
When does it start?
You cannot say OP would not have continued to win. You just simply can't, and to do so is patently stupid. In OP's last four years, he won more ACC games than anyone not named Duke or UNC
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All-In [43550]
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You stated that there is no evidence that Purnell wouldn’t have maintained his success.
Mar 19, 2019, 5:46 PM
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Based on his recruiting misses, and Brad’s year two roster, I’d say it was pretty obvious to Purnell that there would be a drop off.
Are you seriously holding Brownell accountable for the huge drop off in results during his second season, after just one recruiting cycle as Clemson’s head coach?
If so, then let’s stop giving Purnell credit for Brad’s first team. You can’t have it both ways.
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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You are in a corner on this... So when can we say this was
Mar 19, 2019, 5:48 PM
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officially Brownell's program?
You tell me that and we'll go from there
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All-In [43550]
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It became his program in 2010.
Mar 19, 2019, 5:53 PM
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But the roster obviously wasn’t completely his for several more years.
You’re missing the point though. You asked for evidence that Purnell wouldn’t have maintained his success if he had stayed. Other than looking at Purnell’s recruiting, and Brownell’s results his first few years at Clemson, there is no other way to answer your question.
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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just like their is no way to make you assertion that he
Mar 19, 2019, 5:54 PM
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would not have won....
"several more years".... HAHA
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Orange Blooded [4537]
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Re: You must’ve missed his recruiting failures
Mar 19, 2019, 5:42 PM
[ in reply to You must’ve missed his recruiting failures ] |
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Are you serious? I guess it’s OP’s fault that two 4 stars in Noel Johnson and later Donte Hill decided that they didn’t want to play Bradball and transferred. Not to mention 4 star Marcus Thornton who optioned out his commitment to Bradball to go to Georgia. Then Brad goes on to sign his very 1st recruit in 2 star Corey Stanton, who went on to transfer like nearly 50% of ALL Brownell era recruits have.
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All-In [43550]
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Several players were going to transfer if Purnell had stayed.
Mar 19, 2019, 5:50 PM
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At least that’s the rumor.
Noel Johnson and Donte Hill clearly weren’t legitimate four star recruits. But let me guess, you blame Brad for not keeping/developing them better.
What did those two do at their next stops? Hint: not much.
It’s a reach to blame Brad for not keeping Thornton. He had no relationship with him, and UGa was Thornton’s second choice during his recruitment. And it wasn’t like he turned out to be a star or anything.
Brad brought Stanton with him from Wright State because we literally had no other recruits (other than Thornton) thanks to Purnell. Again, Purnell did his successor a huge disservice in terms of talent beyond 2010-2011.
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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"that's the rumor"***
Mar 19, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Legend [16482]
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You two need to tie one on
Mar 19, 2019, 5:57 PM
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Together at the ESSO Club...show the love...feel the hangover tomorrow...do it all over again!
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Orange Blooded [4537]
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All-In [43550]
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I don't know specifics of the purported personal problems
Mar 19, 2019, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But... ] |
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other than what has been posted on here over the years. I am not doubting that such a situation could've played a role in why he left, but let's not forget that he was offered a substantial raise to take the DePaul job. That, coupled with a lot of recruiting misses here which left the cupboard bare after the upcoming season, were the two main reasons Purnell left.
He did some great things for our program, but had reached his ceiling here and would've almost certainly had some lean years ahead if he had stayed.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But...
Mar 19, 2019, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to This is not anti-Brownell. I like Brad. But... ] |
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And which Oliver Purnell were you watching because it wasn't the same one I saw. Not only did his tenure end up with him leaving in the middle of the night,and going to DePaul,but he then abruptly resigned there at the end of the 2015 season. Not the kind of coach I want.
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110%er [9587]
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None of the things you mentioned
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Mar 19, 2019, 4:10 PM
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would have happened if he had stayed at Clemson.
Think about it.
He was a great coach at Clemson. That was kinda my point.
Not that it matters, though. He is long gone. Just conversation.
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110%er [6067]
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There's goes the Brown-Lers excuse about the fans
Mar 19, 2019, 2:07 PM
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The fans dont suck. The product does.
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All-In [43550]
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Anyone can cherry-pick one example
Mar 19, 2019, 4:25 PM
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and try to apply it as if it is a common occurrence.
Clemson doesn't support basketball well.
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All-TigerNet [12912]
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I was there during the Barnes years... and I can tell you
Mar 19, 2019, 6:13 PM
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that you are wrong
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Clemson won’t support men’s basketball
Mar 19, 2019, 2:08 PM
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Then why have a team at all?Just disband the program.
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Orange Blooded [4001]
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i hate hearing that comment -
Mar 19, 2019, 5:18 PM
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It is something said when people cannot debate with facts. I was at Clemson from 77-81. We supported, we were fun to watch, we were competitive. At the end of the day - I think being fun to watch and being competitive are what brings people in. Do you get more excited by Star Wars or Chariots of Fire? Chariots won lots of awards - but most of us would turn it off and watch a re-run of Star Wars again and again.
Then - when people speak about being competitive. This years .500 team would IMO be well below .500 even a few years ago. The bottom half of the ACC is uncompetitive. That is where we rack up the wins.
I am not a fire the coach kind of guy. What I am interested in is doing something different. The people who say there is no support are wrong. People want to support. But they want something exciting to support. As a leader of the program - BB has graduated players, no major scandals, etc. great ! Check that box.
Now give me excitement. Purcell’s teams had issues, but were exciting to watch. We lacked shooters then too.
I believe sometimes, good people must leave a company, in order for growth to occur.
It might be time for that to happen.
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Legend [16482]
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Until College Hoops is cleaned up
Mar 19, 2019, 5:49 PM
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I wouldn't put anymore towards it than now. Don't begin to compare it with football...there is no comparison. Why the NCAA and, worst of all, the member programs don't want to do anything is beyond me, but chasing that seedy-arsed sport is 'fools' gold'. Handlers, 'one and dones', the pretentiousness of the Calipari's and the Self's and the gold academia of UNCheat...and the Wades and the shoes...and the...shall I go on? Show the me the level playing field...and I'll give you dibs on the pristine ski slopes that are Casablanca.
To be blunt...I abhor college basketball. I love Clemson...I love the teams...but good golly...I HATE the sport.
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Orange Blooded [4001]
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Re: Until College Hoops is cleaned up
Mar 19, 2019, 5:59 PM
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I am not quite on board with hating the sport yet - but i do agree with your clean up the sport message. i hate to be an old guy yelling "get off my lawn". But - the world has changed so much since we were there. The term "student athletes" is seldom correct these days. when love of the sport was the reason they played. sports has changed - all of them. I don't have to like it - but clearly - i cannot change it.
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