|
Replies: 12
| visibility 620
|
110%er [6101]
TigerPulse: 85%
Posts: 10117
Joined: 11/1/11
|
AG Barr now has the full IG Report (FISA)
Sep 13, 2019, 5:35 PM
|
|
We better see some crooks making the perp walk. Comey got a pass after evidence in the first IG report proved he tried to knee cap the President with his media leaks and illegal sharing of classified intel, then he had the nerve to demand an apology. I hope he’s first, and let it happen at 3:00am with a 52-man FBI swat team and black helicopters. Full media (won’t happen) coverage while he’s dragged from his house in his spongbob jammies.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj-inspector-general-submits-report-on-alleged-fisa-abuses-to-attorney-general DOJ watchdog submits draft report on alleged FISA abuses to Barr The Justice Department’s inspector general told lawmakers Friday his team is nearly finished with its long-awaited review of alleged surveillance abuses by the DOJ and FBI during the Russia investigation, saying they have submitted a draft to the attorney general and are “finalizing” the report ahead of its public release.
|
|
|
|
 |
Hall of Famer [20514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11666
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: AG Barr now has the full IG Report (FISA)
Sep 14, 2019, 9:38 AM
|
|
So a "watchdog" appointed by a bent attorney general who completely mis-represented Mueller's report - which did indeed delineate multiple counts of obstruction by the president - has come to some conclusions on whether or not the FBI was somehow guilty of investigating a businessman-turned-president who had public ties to some of the most dangerous and corrupt people in the world?
I don't mean to be blunt, but that's just plain stupid. If you do a lot of business with Al Capone, people get concerned...and you get investigated. That's what cops are for.
Putin and the Russian oligarchs that Trump was publicly doing business with are worse than Capone, and you expect the FBI to sit on its hands and do...nothing, especially when Trump comes ambling in telling Comey to "just make it all go away", Goodfellas-style?
Of course they looked! They'd have been criminally remiss to not look.
The Russians are not the good guys. Trump set off all manner of alarms with his myriad associations with them...and the FBI - as was its duty to the American people - duly investigated, in the form of Bob Mueller's investigation. (That Trump tried so hard to kill it should have gotten him instantly impeached, and that, as much as anything, is what's going to destroy the Republican Party. When Nixon crossed that line, the Republicans in Congress ultimately removed him...and preserved the integrity of the party. This generation failed in their responsibility completely...and will not be remembered kindly by history. I think it ultimately breaks the party, but that's a different issue.)
The issue you're discussing isn't complicated. For the millionth time: you associate with bad folks, it gets people wondering. And the FBI has broad authority and discretion on how and whom they investigate. It's why they're the FBI.
This "investigation" into the legalities of FISA warrants, at the end of the day, is just petty political retaliation...and ultimately, it's going to go nowhere. AG Barr & Co. will pass out what amounts to a few slaps on the wrist to guys like Comey and McCabe...and that'll be the end of it, because the last thing Barr is going to want to do is drag the whole thing into court, for yet more political spectacles, while breathing still more life into the question of Trump's behavior before and after the probe. Especially with an election year coming.
Leaving aside the political considerations aside, Barr would also get laughed out of court, and he knows it. He doesn't have a case. Trump was openly doing business with really shady people, and that gets cops looking at you, and it really is that simple.
People who don't understand that amaze me. Also - the probe basically cleared Trump of the biggest charges - that being a direct prid pro quo between his camp and the Russians - and came to the conclusion that he in fact was not Agent Orange or the Moscow Candidate, as many were (legitimately!) wondering.
It similarly amazes me that people think presidents should be above questioning or reproach. Given the enormous power they wield, how can we afford to trust them? And a president is not a king - they are publicly elected officials accountable to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95370
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Fail.
Sep 15, 2019, 9:00 AM
|
|
Obstruction of justice can't exist without motivation. Where's the predicate for the investigation? Over 3 years after the investigation began there's still no evidence Trump committed a crime. To show obstruction without a crime one must present motivation to obstruct justice. Mueller didn't address this issue, that's why he didn't 'make a decision,' or 'recommend impeachment.'
He clearly left that to the congress, specifically The House of Representatives. Pubs don't control the House. Why isn't the House half way through the impeachment process if there was obstruction of justice? Have you considered that? Politics? NO, they have a responsibility to America to pursue justice on behalf of Americans not play politics with a lawless POTUS. It doesn't matter what the senate does, it matters whether or not the House can produce evidence of a crime. You must be desperately disappointed in the house dems for shirking their responsibility.
BTW, cops don't investigate bank robbers if no banks were robbed, they investigate bank robberies. If no bank is robbed good cops know it's going to be hard to find a bank robber. The entire investigation was political, no bank was robbed, you said so yourself. Mueller found so.
The FBI has no authority to tap phones and spy on Americans, that's why they applied to the FISA court. They conspired to defraud the courts for political reasons. They wanted to spy on a political opponent. There's a real crime. I expect the FBI to be honest with FISA courts, be politically blind like lady justice and know of a crime before they begin an investigation.
Basically, your entire post is devoid of law and logic. It's a rant from an emotion man who is way to close to this to differentiate right from wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111193]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73627
Joined: 9/10/03
|
Re: Fail.
Sep 15, 2019, 11:32 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95370
Joined: 12/25/09
|
lolol
Sep 15, 2019, 3:07 PM
|
|
Who wants to be the focal point of a special counsel's witch hunt. You? So what evidence did mueller present that indicates Trump colluded Russia in a conspiracy to fix the election?
It's the old 'show me a man and I'll find a crime,' Russian's bullchit way of running government.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [20514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 11666
Joined: 10/15/02
|
Re: Fail.
Sep 18, 2019, 1:13 PM
[ in reply to Fail. ] |
|
Good Gods. Pretty much your entire response is devoid of logic and reason, and you're angrily throwing it at me while questioning my character in the process.
And you're factually wrong. On most of what you wrote.
Let's start with this gem: "Obstruction of justice cannot exist without motivation."
Huh? Sure it can. I think you're trying to say if there's no crime, Trump couldn't have obstructed...this is not true. Firstly, it could be Trump was indeed guilty of stuff that wasn't discovered. Mueller isn't God; he doesn't know everything Trump did or didn't do...he just didn't find enough evidence to make the accusation, not the same thing, though you'd think if there was extensive coordination between Trump and Putin, somebody as thorough as Mueller would have likely found it. So I'll provisionally admit: Trump is not a traitor.
But is he a crook? That's a very different question, and one that assuredly hasn't been answered yet.
Something was panicking Trump, whatever. Trump was assuredly acting guilty as sin - to the point he said "I'm @%cked", when he learned Mueller had been appointed special counsel - which does not indicate a man who thinks he's pure as the driven snow.
Trump then assuredly proceeded to obstruct justice - meaning, to illegally attempt to influence an investigation in which he himself was the focus - in at least 10 instances outlined in the Mueller report. Read it (I did), the PDF is right here:
https://www.commoncause.org/resource/read-the-mueller-report/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgoeZ9Oza5AIVSh6tBh0G_wuAEAAYAiAAEgJQvPD_BwE
Mueller was a Special Counsel; he wasn't judge and jury. He found his facts...then kicked to Congress and told them the whole affair was their decision...mostly because it is; it's right there in the Constitution, how impeaching a president works and who does it. (Which the Dems in the House are still waffling about! The legalists say "yes", those more concerned with political reality like Pelosi say "no, whump Trump on the issues". Truthfully, I'm not sure who's right. Why waste time fighting a war that's already lost...on the other hand, if you just kick back and don't challenge obvious malfeasance, are you yourself not complicit in enabling it? I dunno.)
So why was Trump obstructing? Well, it looks like the sin that may have inspired this whole mess to begin with wasn't actual conspiracy with a foreign power but more probably emoluments violations - pay for play - in regards to the businesses that Trump (again, illegally) never divested himself from. The truth of that is likely in those tax records he refuses to produce...again, not the actions of a man with nothing to hide.
Whatever, Trump really didn't (and still doesn't) want people looking at his money. Which means he's unfit to be a public servant. You want privacy, don't hold public office. And especially don't consort with Russians with links to organized crime and the old KGB; that panics people, especially in the FBI. And gets a lot of FISA warrants rubber-stamped.
As it should. Russia is a bad actor both at home and on the world stage, and after a brief respite after the Wall fell when Putin tried (and failed) to successfully find Russia's place on the world stage, they have once again become an enemy of our nation who wishes us harm. Period.
That isn't "politics". That's above politics. That's plain old-fashioned national survival. And that's your "predicate for investigation".
Looked at another way: Trump is a (likely crooked) businessman...to him, is just money, no matter where it comes from. Seemingly oblivious to the optics of national security, Trump just bulled right on across lines that set off screeching red alarms throughout the intelligence community - the CIA as well as the counter-intelligence directorate of the FBI. They were For True scared he was actually Agent Orange.
That's what got this whole ball rolling. I'm actually kind of baffled you don't get that.
Again, given where the investigation originated, it wasn't about politics. There were people in the FBI and CIA legitimately wondering if our president had been compromised by Putin - who was a former agent of the KGB! (Do you just not know your history? You seem strangely oblivious to why that's such a huge thing. Nobody - and I mean nobody - has done as many dirty tricks, compromised as many people, as the old KGB. Ever.) And the more Trump fought the investigation, the more concerned a lot of people got.
I was actually relieved when Mueller found no obvious conspiracy between Trump and Putin. That would have been a level of bad the nation just wasn't ready for.
A crook tends to get dealt with at the next election. A traitor, though...that's something else, something that could have brought this country down. A traitor would have had to have been removed immediately. Which would have been incredibly messy and divisive...well, far more messy and more divisive than Trump is on an ordinary day (which is a lot!) anyhow.
Also, keep in mind, I'm not a Democrat. I'm still at this moment a registered Republican though I'll be switching to "independent" in the next election; I don't have a horse in the race since neither party as currently constructed remotely reflects my own politics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95370
Joined: 12/25/09
|
No evidence of a crime but he 'might be guilty?'
Sep 19, 2019, 4:42 AM
|
|
Do you have any idea how contrary to the American standard that is? 'Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers.' If that doesn't mean anything to you then our conversation is ended.
Facts are stubborn. The fact that Mueller needed Trump's testimony to know his motivation for everything you're considering obstruction of justice is the primary key here, Quoz. Without evidence of a predicate to a real crime Mueller had no way to convince a judge to force Trump's testimony.
That's why Trump responded to questions about the campaign and ignored those about his time in office. It wasn't about executive privelege it was about Mueller showing the courts that Trump had committed a crime during the time when the crime was to have happened.
As far as me believing Trump isn't a crook, you have been hanging out here long enough to know what I think about Trump's business practices. I've always said he was a crook. He fits right in with everyone else in DC, imo. I have no respect for anyone in congress. I respect the offices they hold.
Your entire rant is your wishlist for witch hunting. As I said, this 'Show me the man and I'll find a crime,' bullchit is something Russians Communist would do. Civilized folks don't behave like that.
I'm not happy with everything Trump does but he's kept more promises than any POTUS in my lifetime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: AG Barr now has the full IG Report (FISA)
Sep 15, 2019, 1:35 PM
|
|
We better see some crooks making the perp walk. Comey got a pass after evidence in the first IG report proved he tried to knee cap the President with his media leaks and illegal sharing of classified intel, then he had the nerve to demand an apology.
Of course it doesn't matter to peeps like you who simply pull things our of thin air regardless of whether it's true or not.
But I'll go ahead and try again. The IG Report found that Comey HAD NOT shared classified information with anyone. It did say Comey violoted FBI guidelines. That's why he wasn't prosecuted, he didn't break any laws.
By the way, whatever happened to "lock her up!". Trump said he was going to investigate her if he got elected. So what happened?
Or did Mexico not paying for the wall expose him as another bullchit conman who would say anything to give supporters like you wood?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95370
Joined: 12/25/09
|
Re: AG Barr now has the full IG Report (FISA)
Sep 15, 2019, 3:14 PM
|
|
He wasn't charged and won't be charged with anything until he's charged with fraud on the FISA court and the other list of lawlessness behavior. You know the cops don't serve 15 different warrants. You know one warrant will include every charge they have.
You don't ask a grand jury to convene to deliberate on one crime at a time. You gather all the charges and then slam the door. The IG's report isn't a big deal. John Durham's report will bring hail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [15492]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 18413
Joined: 12/10/14
|
Re: AG Barr now has the full IG Report (FISA)
Sep 16, 2019, 12:56 PM
|
|
Your post, my friend, is a perfect example of someone willing to believe what they want to believe rather than the facts. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you really need to stop watching Fox Opinion people or you'll never have a factual perspective.
Remember Seth Rich being murdered by the DNC?
Further, in your other post about not impeaching for political reasons? Nixon was pardoned wholly for political reasons. The house has decided it will be politically bad for them to impeach. They've said it over and over and over. Yet you do not hear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93580]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95370
Joined: 12/25/09
|
All this 'you got that from Fox,' is designed to ignore...
Sep 19, 2019, 4:26 AM
|
|
what doesn't lead to outcomes and opinions which please you, Felix. You must stop dismissing my opinion by accusing me of being a one source person. It's an insult and it's just a way for you to dismiss me as being of no value. I have never dismissed your comments by accusing you of watching CNN.
Past that, you have no idea what you're talking about. That has been shown over the past three years when you were positive that Trump was a Russia agent or at least conspired with Russia to fix the election.
You can't get over the fact that America loves Trump. You don't understand how anyone can have an opinion which is polar opposite to yours.
If congress dems had evidence that Trump was guilty of something they would impeach him. If they proved he had committed crimes in the House the Senate would remove him from office. For 2 years congressional dems strutted about claiming they had seen the evidence that Trump conspired with Russia. Where is it, Felix. Where is the evidence that Mueller couldn't produce after wasting 30+ million bucks?
It was a witch hunt and John Durham's report will merit a grand jury to bring charges against the witch hunters. I was right when I said Trump didn't fix the election and I'm right now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [82946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80103
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Nothing to see here unless you are far right
Sep 18, 2019, 3:00 PM
|
|
fringe with a ton of imagination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5854]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3673
Joined: 11/18/00
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 12
| visibility 620
|
|
|
50
