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CU Guru [1405]
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1619
Aug 19, 2019, 11:21 AM
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The 1619 project by the New York Times is amazing. To read history without the whitewash that it got in school is a thing of beauty.
And more importantly than anything, it has brought out the racists. Simply being confronted with the role of slavery in America sets off racists like Trump and Gingrich.
Anyway, I'm bringing it up here really for one reason. It'll be interesting to see who's gotten triggered.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 12:48 PM
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I’ve apparently read too many free articles on NYT this month and I don’t have a subscription. Could you do a quick summary?
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Heisman Winner [119516]
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Summary: Everything white history authors wrote
Aug 19, 2019, 1:23 PM
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For school textbooks are rassist lies!
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110%er [7018]
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Summary.
Aug 19, 2019, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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You are racist, and America is evil.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 1:36 PM
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Since I also am unable read it would like to ask for a friend if it included the facts on African rulers/Kings and Countries selling people to those white devils at the dock? Also if it mentions the Western Slave Route that was around long before the Eastern Route to North America?
Does it discuss the fact that slavery has existed in some form since time began? While the form of slavery practiced in North America was different it was still slavery. Just a saying CU, one must be real careful on this issue because facts are played with fast and loosely in every article I have read. Just saying there are many African Nations slowly coming to grips with their own part in selling their brothers at the docks.
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All-In [48756]
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How much does that matter?
Aug 19, 2019, 1:42 PM
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I mean, it's good to know and everything, but does any of it make slavery a moral condition?
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110%er [7018]
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Was anyone saying that it was a moral condition?***
Aug 19, 2019, 2:45 PM
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All-In [48756]
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Pretending that
Aug 20, 2019, 3:34 PM
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"Billy punched Sally" is not an accurate statement unless you also point out that "Bobby punched Susie" is dumb. The post I responded to implied that 1619 was somehow tainted or useless unless it also pointed out other wrongs.
It's dumb.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: How much does that matter?
Aug 19, 2019, 3:25 PM
[ in reply to How much does that matter? ] |
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CU17 spoke of unvarnished truth, that is what I was asking about not the moral condition. We can all agree that it was morally wrong.
Unvarnished truth requires the whole history of slavery be taught, the roles of the African Nations and tribes that palyed a very large part in supplying humans for money at the docks and how slavery still exists today. One can find a huge number of articles about the issue past to present day if one cares to look. Many articles on the Eastern and Western routes , Arab slave trade, Ottoman Empire, etc and how those areas and Western Nations still have slaves in them right this moment.
Not one single group in the past holds domain on the issue as a victim, to think so is simply foolish at best and agenda driven at worst.
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All-In [48756]
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You know what group "holds domain on the issue as a victim"
Aug 20, 2019, 3:31 PM
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the people who were sold into slavery.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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Since it's a history of slavery from the perspective of the slaves, I'm sure it mentions some of that. It's a long series and I'm not done yet. But the whole point of the article is to not view the history of slavery in a way that's written to make modern white people feel comfortable, so I don't expect it to go into that too deeply.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 3:31 PM
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SO basically it is agenda driven and NOT an unvarnished truth at all? Like I said , be very careful what one chooses to pick as an unvarnished truth becauseI have found that a lot gets left out by many of these pieces.
I would also ask whether it is is better to focus so much effort and energy on the past instead of dealing with it's many forms alive and well today. We cannot change the past but we can assure it is stamped out in the present.
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110%er [7018]
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Well where's the political football in that?***
Aug 19, 2019, 3:34 PM
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CU Guru [1878]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 3:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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It IS unvarnished truth. He is saying that it is FREE from the varnish of making white people feel better about themselves.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 4:00 PM
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No, not really and I will tell you what it is actually about , 40 acres and a mule. Modern term would be reparations currently being espoused by the Dems on the campaign trail.
Exactly zero of my long gone distant relatives owned slaves. In reality that very fact frees me of having to feel bad in truth. You and many like you fail to view the issue of slavery as it has existed since time began and choose to view it only in an American perspective. It requires a historic perspective that spans all races and eras.
One can discuss what made that experience different in North America ,how slavery morphed in to what occured in the US but the fact remains in the history of the world from all the way back there have been slaves of peoples sold/bought, conquered or considered unworthy.
Now my Irish ancestors may have some stories of their own to tell but that is not what the public cares to embrace today.
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All-In [41891]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 4:47 PM
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So what's exactly your beef? You spout out a lot of facts, but what problem do you have with telling this story from the perspective of the slaves, which is a story that hasn't been told very often?
This is an odd thing to get worked up about.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 5:38 PM
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Not worked up even a little bit CU17, in fact none at all.
What you came here to do was to attempt to inflict your very own white guilt upon the rest of us, sorry but as I said I have no white guilt on this or any other issue. You may feel free to walk around all day in some form of white guilt but to me that just seems so very exhausting.
Like I said this is all about 40 acres and a mule( reparations), we all know any enslaved person would tell that it sucked mule balls. Their tale is no different than any other slave in fact throughout time. Do you think those slaves building the pyramids played grab bass and lounged about on a 8 hour workday? Just one example but you get the idea right?
Instead of all this hand wringing and waste of time /effort( we all know reparations are not gonna happen) maybe we should learn from that past to ensure it is stamped out now and in the future.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/world/global-slavery-estimates-ilo/index.html
https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/global-findings/
Until we invent a time travel machine the past will remain unchanged, the future is an entirely different matter.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 5:42 PM
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Should have looked closer at the poster, just assumed it was CU17. Insert Catahoula in place of CU17 and it still applies.
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All-In [41891]
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Re: 1619
Aug 19, 2019, 5:53 PM
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Well, I was okay with you mistaking the author and having an oops. But since you doubled down on your post by attacking me, okay. I'll tear your post apart.
What you came here to do was to attempt to inflict your very own white guilt upon the rest of us, sorry but as I said I have no white guilt on this or any other issue. You may feel free to walk around all day in some form of white guilt but to me that just seems so very exhausting.
I didn't post any white guilt ####. You make yourself look stupid by claiming I did. Post a quote or GTFO.
Like I said this is all about 40 acres and a mule( reparations), we all know any enslaved person would tell that it sucked mule balls. Their tale is no different than any other slave in fact throughout time. Do you think those slaves building the pyramids played grab bass and lounged about on a 8 hour workday? Just one example but you get the idea right?
You've completely missed the point. The topic at focus is slavery in America, which, over the years following the end of the Civil War, has been sugarcoated and white washed by many historians and other Southern apologists. You ever met a Southerner who said, "Well, my ancestors owned slaves, and we treated em like ####!"
No. They all claim their ancestors treated em real well. Of course. That's the BS lie families passed down over the years. Fact is, their ancestors owned people who were probably ripped from their families. No. They didn't treat any of them well. Any of them.
Gone with the Wind is a perfect example. As brilliant of a film as it is with cinematography, acting, etc., it's a glossed over account of how slaves were treated.
What this series does is attempt to view it from the perspective of the slaves and bring much needed realism to the debate.
How anyone, and I mean anyone, could possibly get worked about that is absolutely mind-boggling. How on earth could this upset you? Especially if your family didn't own slaves?
Instead of all this hand wringing and waste of time /effort( we all know reparations are not gonna happen) maybe we should learn from that past to ensure it is stamped out now and in the future.
A journalistic endeavor examining the evils of slavery has nothing to do with reparations.
Your rant honestly makes no sense and your outrage is curiously odd. Explain how this could possibly get you worked up.
Signed,
A dude whose ancestors owned slaves and doesn't for one minute believe they were "treated well".
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Legend [15492]
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Re: 1619
Aug 20, 2019, 2:42 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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Not worked up even a little bit CU17, in fact none at all. What you came here to do was to attempt to inflict your very own white guilt upon the rest of us, sorry but as I said I have no white guilt on this or any other issue. You may feel free to walk around all day in some form of white guilt but to me that just seems so very exhausting. Like I said this is all about 40 acres and a mule( reparations), we all know any enslaved person would tell that it sucked mule balls. Their tale is no different than any other slave in fact throughout time. Do you think those slaves building the pyramids played grab bass and lounged about on a 8 hour workday? Just one example but you get the idea right? Instead of all this hand wringing and waste of time /effort( we all know reparations are not gonna happen) maybe we should learn from that past to ensure it is stamped out now and in the future. https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/world/global-slavery-estimates-ilo/index.htmlhttps://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/findings/global-findings/Until we invent a time travel machine the past will remain unchanged, the future is an entirely different matter.
I have to disagree with your premise my friend. It is true that slavery has existed as long as men have been intelligent enough to make weapons. History is replete with conquering armies parading their soon to be enslaved captives through the streets, from the Assyrians, Romans and Aztecs to the Chinese, most all nations at one time or another utilized and profited from slavery.
However, that fact is irrelevant to this discussion. The article is about America and it's institution of slavery. It is the how and why of it's development and integration into our culture. It simply goes into more depth as to it's working and the personalities involved. Jefferson, for example, didn't see a conflict between "All men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain, inalienable rights..." He believed slaves were inferior humans and advocated for their expulsion from the country. This while holding slaves, profiting from their sale and fathering some on his own.
The article is a distinctly American story. It has nothing to do with "white guilt" but rather a candid examination of our countries history. I for one would argue that it might be white guilt causing men to be unwilling to examine the unvarnished truth of our history.
Even to this day we speak of the freedom obtained by our forefathers from the tyranny of European monarchy. That is an exceptional milestone in the history of man. Only we, the free, instituted a worse tyranny on other men. African men, women and children. I don't have white guilt because of it. I feel shame that we fell so short of the ideals we set for ourselves.
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All-In [38514]
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Like this?
Aug 19, 2019, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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?
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Oculus Spirit [97634]
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Ignored upon identification as a social media post.
Aug 19, 2019, 7:08 PM
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Took about 1 second.
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Oculus Spirit [97634]
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I'm 43 and I'm trying to recall the last time I read
Aug 19, 2019, 7:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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something written to make white people feel better about themselves. Whenever it was, it was before I was born. Nothing I read in high school. Nothing I've ever seen on TV, in the news or in movies. Nothing I've ever read as a history major in college. Nothing I've read or watched on TV since college.
I HAVE read stuff written to make white people feel better about themselves. They were written in the early 1900's by a group that called themselves "progressives". They supported things like euthanasia, and other things to assuage white guilt. But again, nothing in my lifetime.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I'm 43 and I'm trying to recall the last time I read
Aug 20, 2019, 3:26 PM
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something written to make white people feel better about themselves. Whenever it was, it was before I was born. Nothing I read in high school. Nothing I've ever seen on TV, in the news or in movies. Nothing I've ever read as a history major in college. Nothing I've read or watched on TV since college.
Written to make white people feel good? World history has been dominated by white people. We've owned most of the world for millennia. What would something written to 'make white people feel better about themselves' even look like?
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Legend [15730]
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Well now that’s an interesting comment. I’m curious as
Aug 19, 2019, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: 1619 ] |
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to how slavery is written about today to make people feel comfortable.
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110%er [7018]
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no.. not people.. White people.***
Aug 19, 2019, 3:37 PM
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Legend [15730]
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Right, right. My mistake.***
Aug 19, 2019, 3:57 PM
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Legend [15730]
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If I can enjoy a Snickers bar without feeling guilty
Aug 19, 2019, 4:00 PM
[ in reply to no.. not people.. White people.*** ] |
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about slavery’s history with sugar plantations, I’m obviously just ignorant.
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Oculus Spirit [97634]
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All-In [41891]
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Well, you found who this triggers.
Aug 19, 2019, 4:42 PM
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That didn't take long.
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All-In [31813]
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What makes Gingrich a racist?***
Aug 19, 2019, 4:43 PM
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CU Medallion [50635]
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1619***
Aug 19, 2019, 4:44 PM
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Oculus Spirit [78823]
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CU Medallion [59967]
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Re: 1619***
Aug 19, 2019, 5:19 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93575]
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You're barking up the wrong tree.
Aug 19, 2019, 5:28 PM
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If you're looking for a hair trigger try posting the unemployment numbers, 5% rise in wages for the lowest skilled and semi skilled workers or the rise in stocks since Trump took office.
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Oculus Spirit [97634]
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Actually stocks have leveled off overall.
Aug 19, 2019, 7:11 PM
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Due to the 5% rise in WAGES. That triggered a 2.25% raise in interest rates. THAT stalled the debt....I mean stock market.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: You're barking up the wrong tree.
Aug 20, 2019, 3:28 PM
[ in reply to You're barking up the wrong tree. ] |
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More jobs were created under Obama than Trump during the same period. Feel better about Obama? 
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: You're barking up the wrong tree.
Aug 20, 2019, 4:58 PM
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More jobs were created under Obama than Trump during the same period. Feel better about Obama?
Obama’s job “creation” numbers are skewed due to the fact he created loopholes that allowed companies to defer offering healthcare benefits by flooding their workforce’s with “part time” positions. In his years in office, people with seniority in full time positions were cut and companies hired part time employees to save on paying benefits and lower wages.
Message was edited by: Touch_The_Rock79
Message was edited by: Touch_The_Rock79
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Legend [15492]
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Re: You're barking up the wrong tree.
Aug 20, 2019, 8:11 PM
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More jobs were created under Obama than Trump during the same period. Feel better about Obama? Obama’s job “creation” numbers are skewed due to the fact he created loopholes that allowed companies to defer offering healthcare benefits by flooding their workforce’s with “part time” positions. In his years in office, people with seniority in full time positions were cut and companies hired part time employees to save on paying benefits and lower wages. Message was edited by: Touch_The_Rock79 Message was edited by: Touch_The_Rock79
You make a very good point. But you left out the part that Obama and the world were merely trying to recover from the brilliant tax cuts and deregulations that resulted in crashing the worlds economy. The same arcane, truly unbelievably dumb trickle down theory that always works short term and then ends horribly for everyone except banks and politicians. On the face of it, the idea that the government gives money to rich people who will miraculously turn around and use it to give people raises and invest in job growth. Not simply buy back their stocks to bump the prices and put the money in their pockets. Happens every time....and now again.
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