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Legend [15492]
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Heisman Winner [119710]
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Give it up....nobody cares***
Sep 23, 2019, 7:21 AM
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All-In [42169]
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A lot of people care.
Sep 23, 2019, 8:00 AM
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If he did it, he should be impeached.
I know you won't want that because you actually support our president taking such actions. Trump lovers have no integrity.
None.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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The problem, and the reason he is right, is that the
Sep 23, 2019, 12:14 PM
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Dems dont care either. The words 'impeach' and 'investigate' have been used so much - its probably 20 times per day we have to hear each of those words - that people are sick of it. No one in DC cares whether an investigation should actually take place, or what it reveals once done, or whether an impeachable offense has actually occurred. All they want to do is to have the words used over and over again, and having sacrificed truth too many times to do it no one is now listening.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: The problem, and the reason he is right, is that the
Sep 23, 2019, 12:29 PM
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I agree to a point. The Dems are shameless when it comes to doing interviews on tv and Schiff is the worst.
However, I believe a lot of people care that the President apparently pressured the President of a foreign country to go after his U.S. political rival.
Maybe not Trump supporters, but a majority of Americans.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Sure. Agree. If that is what he did. It is now starting to
Sep 23, 2019, 12:57 PM
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look like this will follow the same process of Kavanaugh, Mueller, etc: - A story comes from a suspect source. - The Dems/media run with it like gospel. - Guilt is assumed, due process principles are ignored. - The hype grows to crescendo - The actual evidence pops the balloon - Rinse and repeat.
Statesmanship got left behind some time back. When Rep Pelosi is the voice of reason and restraint by comparison, you're off the rails.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Sure. Agree. If that is what he did. It is now starting to
Sep 23, 2019, 1:46 PM
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look like this will follow the same process of Kavanaugh, Mueller, etc: - A story comes from a suspect source. - The Dems/media run with it like gospel. - Guilt is assumed, due process principles are ignored. - The hype grows to crescendo - The actual evidence pops the balloon - Rinse and repeat.
Statesmanship got left behind some time back. When Rep Pelosi is the voice of reason and restraint by comparison, you're off the rails.
First, there is nothing suspect about an intelligence official going through normal channels to file a whistleblower complaint. We don't know who it is or what the complaint is. We know nothing. Although I do find it odd that Trump says on the one hand he doesn't know who or what the complaint is...while at the same time saying the whistleblower is a Democrat.
Second, Trump has already admitted that he brought up Biden and Son to the President of Ukraine and the 'corruption' they engaged in. The WSJ (owned by same guy as Fox News) reported the Trump pressed the Ukranian President 8 times during 1 call to get them to investigate Biden and Son.
Third, this guy could literally shoot someone on Madison Avenue and not lose a single Trump supporter.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Disclaimer: I am neither a Trump voter nor supporter.
Sep 23, 2019, 2:38 PM
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You didn't say I was either, I'm just getting that on the table for this conversation. Your last point first:
I dont know what a die hard Trump supporter would or wouldn't overlook - probably on par with what Hillary Clinton supporters are willing to overlook - but I am referring to the repeating cycle of unsupported allegations from disreputable sources, followed by shouts of guilt, "investigation!" and "impeachment!!", followed by lack of any evidence. If I am sick of it - and I didnt vote for the guy, his supporters have certainly turned it off.
As to Biden, it is beginning to look like there is nothing substantial about whatever he might have said. The Clinton campaign is who surfaced the stuff on Biden's son, and Trump might have said the the Ukraine president, "I hope you guys find out what he was doing in your country." So?
As to the 'intelligence officer', we now know he is not even a whistleblower. He reported what he heard someone else say that person heard. Or maybe that person heard it from someone else. The point is that it doesn't even qualify as "whistleblower" under the law. Rumors are not protected whistles.
So, while we dont know who said what to who on that phone call, and maybe never will, the story is not what Adam Schiff shrilly said it was: "proven high crimes ans misdemeanors".
The point is that if I, not a Trump supporter, am fed up with the 24/7/365 circus this has become, the left needs to rethink its strategy if it wants a Dem in the White House. Act like adults, talk about something besides Trump (like maybe governing, perhaps) and find a candidate who actually sounds legit. If instead they are stuck with Bernie or Warren, and they want to take him down, quietly find a kill shot. The throwing of dust and rending of clothes is putting him back in office. The Dems look like Schiff/Nadler while the Reps look like Graham/Crenshaw. The only way to turn that around is to stop the rumor/media cycle of governing.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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And to anyone reading the above, I did not mean that
Sep 23, 2019, 3:22 PM
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anywhere close to literal. Stupid wording. I was obviously taking about political strategy, and should have said "quietly find a very damaging, true and immediately verifiable, caught-in-the-act sort of story." Like that.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Disclaimer: I am neither a Trump voter nor supporter.
Sep 23, 2019, 9:59 PM
[ in reply to Disclaimer: I am neither a Trump voter nor supporter. ] |
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"....As to the 'intelligence officer', we now know he is not even a whistle blower. He reported what he heard someone else say that person heard. Or maybe that person heard it from someone else. The point is that it doesn't even qualify as "whistle blower" under the law. Rumors are not protected whistles.
So, while we dont know who said what to who on that phone call, and maybe never will, the story is not what Adam Schiff shrilly said it was: "proven high crimes ans misdemeanors."
I too am not a Trump supporter nor a Democrat. I believed that Hillary was the worst possible candidate for the Dems and the election showed that. However, I have to take issue with your above point. We don't know who the whistle blower is nor what he/she has to say. Nothing...nada. So I think it imprudent to characterize him/her the way you did. I would ask you to question the 'source' of your information on said whistle blower as your conclusion doesn't seem supported by facts.
However, I do agree with your characterization of the circus. You have the left and right wing medias playing for dollars, not facts. MSNBC is just as guilty as Fox News in this regard.
Where are Chet Huntly, David Brinkly and Walter Cronkite when we need 'em.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: The problem, and the reason he is right, is that the
Sep 23, 2019, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to The problem, and the reason he is right, is that the ] |
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You have a good point. The sad part is that this presidency knows that and they think they can get away with anything now. This presidency is arguably the most crooked and dishonest in history, but the fools on the Dem side of the aisle aren't competent enough to rein it in.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Wont disagree with that, though I might characterize him
Sep 23, 2019, 2:51 PM
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as a narcissistic pragmatist, unrestrained by ideals or norms. The difference between your take and mine might be language only. Anyway, yes, as someone who longs for an Abraham Lincoln orJohn Kennedy, or even a Bill Clinton or GHW Bush in office, if we are going to replace Trump it will take a good candidate (like one of the aforementioned) and/or a sane sounding party and ideology behind him/her. Anything less plays to Trump's strengths, which, like it or not, are considerable. What we have now is a reality show, and guess who excels at that?
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Lot o points [155919]
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I'll give you many superlatives with this presidency...
Sep 23, 2019, 5:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: The problem, and the reason he is right, is that the ] |
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most uncouth most unconventional most unpresidential most unseemly most uncultured
lots of bars have been lowered in the areas of decorum and etiquette.
Most crooked? Based on rampant speculation, sure, but not based on anything I've actually seen or read---we can stick a pin in that one though, as we both know the left isn't done yet. Most prosecutiorally pursued? Absolutely.
Most dishonest? Yeah, in a Baghdad Bob sort of obvious liar way. On the flip side, I truly, honestly think there's not a ton of behind the scenes crap we are clueless about with this guy----it's an unintentional transparency that I actually am ok with. He's a bad liar and he's incapable of keeping anything a secret that a normal person would want to keep secret. I can't say that about the past several presidents, although they were as pure as the fact-checked driven snow in their public appearances and statements. It's like this....if two pickpockets are coming at you, which one do you prefer...the one who is horrible at their craft and practically wears a "pickpocket" sign around their neck, or the one who charms you with a story and a warm smile while they're emptying your wallet?
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110%er [8984]
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exposed the most liberal's mental illness
Sep 23, 2019, 5:59 PM
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he has truly hurt a bunch of folks, more than Gore vs Bush lol
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Legend [15492]
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Re: exposed the most liberal's mental illness
Sep 23, 2019, 10:04 PM
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he has truly hurt a bunch of folks, more than Gore vs Bush lol
^^^^Hates liberals so much he is blind to facts.^^^^^^
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All-In [42169]
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Re: I'll give you many superlatives with this presidency...
Sep 23, 2019, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to I'll give you many superlatives with this presidency... ] |
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Well, that's where the "arguably" comes in. For crookedness, we can entertain the likes of Harding and Nixon with it. So far, Trump's admin seems filled with corruption that is, for the most part, going unchecked.
For dishonest, yeah, I meant it from the Baghdad Bob sense. Blatant, bald-faced lies told to us on a regular basis as if we're too stupid to look up the truth ourselves.
Which I reckon some are.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I'll give you many superlatives with this presidency...
Sep 23, 2019, 9:43 PM
[ in reply to I'll give you many superlatives with this presidency... ] |
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I can't find much to disagree with you there Obed, I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head overall. If I could embellish on your post a bit it would be that the Dems are as dishonest as the Reps. No matter the party, the American people have been sold out to special interest and have taken a back seat to mindless partisan politics and an absurd fuuck you game they've been playing with each other for 3 decades.
I can only hope that if indeed this President needs impeaching, then the American people can feel more emboldened and be more apt to hold their particular congressmen and women accountable. For the last 30 years the re-election rates for incumbents has hovered around 94% while approval of congress has been about 18%.
The position we are in is ultimately our fault.
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Lot o points [155919]
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The public is/are dolts getting exactly what they vote for.
Sep 23, 2019, 9:48 PM
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Look at the immigrant issue.....
The (modern) left wants those future votes. The (modern) right doesn't want them to have those future votes. Plain and simple.
Instead of seeing through that and having a frank discussion about what's best for America and Americans, they've positioned us out there blowing in the wind arguing "let em all in" vs "hates brown people", and the public has generally run with it.
If we're all this easily manipulated I'm not sure we can bail the boat out fast enough.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Give it up....nobody cares***
Sep 23, 2019, 3:08 PM
[ in reply to Give it up....nobody cares*** ] |
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Bengaline is senile and never had morals in the first place. We all know that. Lets be real.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The Bidens in Ukraine-Wall Street Journal
Sep 23, 2019, 7:38 AM
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When I want facts I go to Breitbart, Info Wars, or Hannity. I don't need some liberal educated nutcases like they have at the Wall Street Journal or whatever you call it.
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All-In [40344]
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this is as far as I could get
Sep 23, 2019, 2:45 PM
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KIEV, Ukraine—Joe Biden’s involvement with Ukraine and his son’s work in the country, which President Trump has repeatedly said should be investigated, began when the former vice president was serving as the Obama administration’s point man on relations with Ukraine and rooting out bureaucratic corruption.
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110%er [8984]
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democrats keep falling into the traps set for trump
Sep 23, 2019, 5:37 PM
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Legend [15492]
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Re: democrats keep falling into the traps set for trump
Sep 23, 2019, 9:36 PM
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Which 'trap' is that? You mean the obstruction and collusion highlighted in Mueller's report that no one seems to have actually read?
Or the 'trap' where Trump personally makes money off of foreign govts. staying at his hotels?
Or the 'trap' where he paid off a couple of women he slept with in violation of campaign finance laws?
Or perhaps the 'trap' where he's pressured a foreign govt. to provide interference in his upcoming re-election?
Yeah, he is either a stable genius or his popular support has prevented the rule of law from being upheld because politicians want to keep their jobs.
For Republican politicians the name of the game is to stay in the game, no matter the cost to the country.
But of course, if you only watch Fox News then all of these facts aren't really facts.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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What I think he means is that the list of things
Sep 24, 2019, 10:53 AM
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you mention are things not shown to be illegal (the Mueller report is closer to exoneration than indictment) that the left uses to attempt to bring Trump down via scandal, and that is a game he plays better than anyone. We are now living in a political reality show, a place in which Trump is very comfortable.
The other side needs another strategy, I think.
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Replies: 23
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