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Clemson Baseball/Recruiting
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Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 8, 2019, 10:11 PM

First off let me start off by saying that Clemson and Monte Lee start the recruiting process behind the 8 ball every year. Whether we like it or not, the truth is Clemson's baseball facilities are not very good opposed to the teams we are recruiting against. We also can't offer the type of financial assistance to players that other teams can. For instance there was a program Clemson offered when Leggett was here that made it easier to get more financial assistance to out of state players, Logan Davidson benefited from the program. I can't think of the name of it but its a program Clemson no longer offers to out of state students. But I was looking at the previous rosters of the Under Armour All American Game, those of you who aren't familiar its the equivalent of the Under Armour football game. 98 first round picks have played in the baseball game in 11 years. Until this season Monte Lee had yet to sign a player who was in that game. This year C/1B Jonathan French was there. The last time Clemson had a player from the game was Jack Leggetts final recruiting class which was the 2015 class that included Seth Beer, Carter Kieboom, and Mitchell Miller. Of course Beer and Miller made it to Clemson and played for Monte but Kieboom signed with Washington.

Until Clemson University starts back offering programs to help out of state kids with financial aid we will always play second fiddle when it comes down to the money. Baseball only gets 11.7 scholarships to distribute to a 35 man roster. I don't know how Monte does it, I don't know if he gives any of his guys full scholarships and if not every player is paying money to come here. So we play second fiddle in money and if a player values top notch facilities and needs money help we are playing third fiddle. Something has to change. I know most fans see Football, Basketball, Baseball in that order but the truth is until football went on this run under Dabo, baseball was the best and most consistent sport on campus. Now it's been pushed to the back in priority and the product on the field is starting to show that. Hopefull DRad and Clements can do some things soon to help out facilities and financial aid wise because Monte really needs the help.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 8, 2019, 10:32 PM

Speaking of facilities,been watching the Mississippi State-Stanford Super Regional being played in Starkville,Mississippi and Dudy Noble Field at Polk–DeMent Stadium is nice.Looks like they have done a lot of upgrading to that stadium.It looks like a Triple-A ballpark in the farm league system.There are some schools with some nice Baseball stadiums in the SEC.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 8, 2019, 10:40 PM

Rob, HORRY TIGER 2 is one of them I was referring to. He keeps up with baseball along with several others.

+1.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 8, 2019, 11:46 PM [ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting ]

That's because Dudy Noble at Mississippi State is brand new. Just opened middle of the season this year. $68M worth lol. Its extremely nice. Better than most minor league parks. Only holds 13,500 (DK holds like 6,500). We don't need anything that big because we don't have the fan support for it but we need some upgrades. Our scoreboard has to be one of the worst in college baseball. I wish wed get a big LED VIdeo board/scoreboard. Would look so much nicer. Also I think theyre working on a new batting cage facility or something so maybe that will help.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 8, 2019, 10:34 PM

Thank you. You know better than most of us being a former high school baseball coach. Let me start by saying Monte lobbied the ncaa hard for another coach. That decision was denied during the ACC Championship. Monte is quite disturbed by this decision. I know others on this board don’t realize baseball isn’t like basketball and football... the limited assistance he receives are from volunteer coaches that work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet.

That being said, Monte has it all on his shoulders to manage, recruit and teach. He earns every dime he makes. There are a few baseball enthusiasts that post on here that understand what a good job he’s doing given what he’s up against.

I know several parents that have high school juniors and seniors that have been through the recruiting gamet, the summer tournaments, and fall ball. Each one has told me 1. The players love Monte, and 2. He is well respected throughout the state when it comes to high school coaches... I’ve also been told it’s quite the opposite with our arch rival. Thanks for posting.

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RJoyce10 - Specifically what are we lacking in facilities?


Jun 8, 2019, 10:53 PM

What improvements are needed at Doug Kingsmore Stadium?
What do we need to offer that we are not offering now?

I totally agree, we need to get creative in financially assisting our players, especially our out-of-state players . . . making sure we stay within the permitted rules.

If you have any ideas, or anyone reading, what are we lacking?

This is a serious question . . . I'm not trying to "stir the pot" or get a reaction . . . I genuinely care about our baseball future.

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First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep


Jun 8, 2019, 11:12 PM

the pace as other teams are catching up, some have passed the Tigers. But to suggest CU's facilities aren't nice, is straight up crap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwYzZrBbxyk


Clemson needs to not hamstring whoever the coach is as they did with Jack. Jack carried the program since the 90s with his good name and nothing more.





Monte Lee's had the benefit of ACM all 4 years and the new digs - he should have been expected to do more with more.

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Re: First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep


Jun 8, 2019, 11:39 PM

I never said they were crap but they aren't close to what teams have that hes recruiting against. Even the new player facility is not as good as some places around the southeast. Like it or not that's the way it is.

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BS, they are nice and they exceed many he recruits against.


Jun 8, 2019, 11:43 PM

It's not as good as "some" places, I wrote that as well.

Monte Lee has been afforded far more than the HOF Coach he replaced, a DRad ridiculous, arrogant mistake, and done less if you compare finishes in the division.

He's had the benefit of ACM all 4 years, it's going away most likely because a few cried for a softball team that will further drain resources from a once proud program.

Stop making excuses for Monte, he's had more than he's earned.

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Re: BS, they are nice and they exceed many he recruits against.


Jun 8, 2019, 11:49 PM

I'm not making excuses for Monte but you're out of your mind if you think theyre better than "many he recruits against." No they aren't bad and they are better than some but when you couple the facilities in the SEC (we recruit against them ya know) and the fact that we can't offer much financial aid assistance to out of state students then we're going to fall behind. Kids from out of state will just go to the draft and sign so they don't have to spend the money to go to college. Clemson is like $23k for an in state student so you can imagine how tough it would be on out of state students.

Also what is ACM? Not familiar with that.

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They are and he has a University to sell as well that's


Jun 8, 2019, 11:51 PM

never been higher in public opinion or awareness.

You are making excuses.

ACM = Academic Common Market, the money to help with 11.7 scholarships you're running on about. Monte Lee has had ACM all 4 years.



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Re: They are and he has a University to sell as well that's


Jun 8, 2019, 11:58 PM

Oh ok. Clemson did away with the Academic Common Market. That was the name of the program I was talking about earlier but I couldn't remember the name of it. The article I read said Clemson no longer offers that assistance. Not making excuses. Monte is up against it recruiting wise and if you can't see that or don't understand that then I don't know what else to tell you.

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Yes, this is the first year they won't, they offered it all


Jun 9, 2019, 12:04 AM

four of Monte's years.

Jack fought for it, as he fought for the millions upon millions that have been poured into DK & player facilities in recent years.

I've asked the WHYs ACM was canned with no response[maybe one I have not seen?], I can only 'magine they did so because Softball only gets 12 scholarships and if you do for one, you have to do for the other.

Softball is a blight on this AD, one that now has more mouths to feed and another drain on resources.

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Re: Yes, this is the first year they won't, they offered it all


Jun 9, 2019, 12:07 AM

Posted a article below from Greenvilleonline about cutting ACM.

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Re: They are and he has a University to sell as well that's


Jun 9, 2019, 2:49 PM [ in reply to They are and he has a University to sell as well that's ]

I have never understood the concept of allowing only 11.7 scholarships for baseball. The ratio of available scholarships to players on the field seems absurd. In a three-game series, a team will need 3 pitchers and several relievers. That's 8 other position players, 3 starters and even with one reliever per game, that's 14 players. Just imagine the same ratio of scholarships for football and basketball and the product we would see on the field and on the court.

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It was an effort to equal the playing field; it's deemed


Jun 11, 2019, 9:13 AM

an equivalency sport, the 11.7 can be divided among 27-30 players, no less than a .25 scholarship.

Some teams aren't funded for the full allotment; not a fan, but I don't particularly care for Title IX either.

Don't know Joe, there are some inequities in a sport they were trying to make equitable. Equality doesn't really exist, impossible really and they create millions in costs that are unnecessary in mine eye.

And you're right, football & basketball are full-ride sports, just makes good sense.




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Re: First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep


Jun 9, 2019, 12:04 AM [ in reply to First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep ]

Think you’re trying to stir the pot dsp. We have nice facilities but we’re competing with the best that have allotted money for students so to counter that, facilities have to be top notch.

Jack was playing with a different deck of cards up until 2009 and that’s when the ncaa changed the rules and he started to decline. Agreed, other teams did too and the smaller teams have benefited like coastal, stony brook, jack st etc.

Monte lost that money two years ago. So he really only had it for one year... incidently up until this class, Monte’ Best class. Jacks last class was 34 and Monte first full recruiting class was 11. And has been consistent in the teens.

It all starts with pitching.

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Well, my friend, you've chosen poorly. I don't stir the pot


Jun 9, 2019, 12:35 AM

getting involved in a conversation of this depth/nature.

But yes, I'm a world-ender stirrer of the pot, and I thank you for it.

And ACM ran 2015 thru 2018, with this year, 2019, it ending, so not available. The GVille article for reference.




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Re: Well, my friend, you've chosen poorly. I don't stir the pot


Jun 9, 2019, 12:54 AM

No, it didn’t run through 2018. It was stopped in 2018 according to DRad at the acc media meeting in an interview I listened to hjm talk about it.

Imo, Monte didn’t recruit the 2016 class, didn’t have time. So imo, he got the money for 2016 and 2018. It was stopped in the acedemic year for 2018. So the way it was explained to me, you couldn’t use it for 2018 recruits... so to say Monte has had it for all 4 years isnt really accurate.

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Ok, we have a different understanding, but I don't see


Jun 9, 2019, 1:06 AM

that makes a difference in his results.

Clemson has out recruited Duke, as example, according to the numbers, one of the teams held against Clemson as if they have it better and yet, Monte has crapped the bed accordingly.

He's had the benefit of the new player digs, not sure why that's ever a question.

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Re: First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep


Jun 9, 2019, 9:07 AM [ in reply to First, Clemson's facilities are nice, but they need to keep ]

Facilities look super nice but I don't have anything to compare them to.

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Re: RJoyce10 - Specifically what are we lacking in facilities?


Jun 8, 2019, 11:43 PM [ in reply to RJoyce10 - Specifically what are we lacking in facilities? ]

Im not entirely sure with facilities I just know I read some articles other places and they were just comparing facilities in the southeast and Clemson was nowhere to be found. I don't think our facilities are bad its just that other teams have passed us. The biggest issue is the money. I don't know what can be done but it would be nice for the university to at least bring back what helped guys like Chris Okey and Logan Davidson. I would be willing to bet if they didn't have that financial assistance they would've went straight to pro ball out of high school. When we recruit high level players that can get drafted early enough to bypass school, more times than not theyre going to go to pro ball to make money instead of going to college and having to spend it. DRad said theyre limited in their options. Not sure why that would be but we need to address it.

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Ok, now you're not sure. That makes more sense, listen, we


Jun 8, 2019, 11:46 PM

both love Clemson and the program, but it's dangerous talk to its health to not be sure and still promote yours as truth.

If Monte is the guy, Clemson does not need to do to Monte what they did to Jack, let him languish while resources are put to a softball program or other things. If we couldn't afford to do what was needed, we needed not to do more with adding sports.

Anyway, Go Tigers.



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Re: Ok, now you're not sure. That makes more sense, listen, we


Jun 8, 2019, 11:56 PM

I saw something about a Title XI for womens sports which is where softball came in. So don't know if that's taking resources from baseball to begin with but it might once it gets up and running. Look I know kids who go through the recruiting process and deal with the facilities and I know scouts who all say that Clemson has fallen behind the majority of the competition they recruit against. That doesn't mean I can sit here and pinpoint exactly what they need. I could if I went up there and got a tour of everything, then I would be able to tell you. But when you look at Clemsons roster and compare it to other teams they play there isn't much comparison.

Also if Monte is going to get this program where we all want it then hes going to have to make changes around him. I respect what Starbuck does being a volunteer but hes not a very good coach, Andrew See I thought was doing a good job but this year our pitchers went backwards and that's not a good sign. Bradley Lecroy is the big one though. One scout I know told me that Lecroy is going to end up being responsible for getting Leggett fired and Monte fired. He said hes a joke on the recruiting trail and that hes not a good recruiter at all. The guys Clemson gets is because of Monte and that's bad when Lecroy is your recruiting coordinator. I don't know the answer for these coaches but I would start with Lecroy. Seems we need to start recruiting different types of players. Our guys fold in big moments and are too laid back and quiet. We need inspirational, high energy, leaders with mental toughness who can perform in the tournament when the moments are bigger.

GO Tigers!

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We did not have to have softball, Title IX requires certain


Jun 9, 2019, 12:07 AM

opportunities, equalities based on or driven by gender.

I like Monte, but if Monte already needs to make changes with all he's been afforded, then he wasn't the right hire.

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Re: We did not have to have softball, Title IX requires certain


Jun 9, 2019, 12:14 AM

Monte is the right hire but he hired the wrong coaches around him. Its clear youre set in what you believe so no need in me trying to change that. Just know that there is 1 constant from the last regime to this one and theres a reason the product on the field is the same we saw the last few years under Leggett. When the recruiting coordinator is the same for both regimes and the result is not going to a super regional in 9 years then theres where your change at least needs to start.

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Sorry, he's only as good as the people around him and if he


Jun 9, 2019, 12:22 AM

failed there, he's failed.

That's his job, no one else's.

Does he right the ship? Maybe, I hope for Clemson baseball's sake, but he's been afforded far more than the man that deserved all Monte's had and he's done less finishing ~4th in the Division twice in 4 years?

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Re: Sorry, he's only as good as the people around him and if he


Jun 9, 2019, 9:16 AM

What we need is a traffic cop at 3rd base. How many players have we had thrown out at the plate ?

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Re: RJoyce10 - Specifically what are we lacking in facilities?


Jun 9, 2019, 11:46 AM [ in reply to Re: RJoyce10 - Specifically what are we lacking in facilities? ]

So what your saying is you don’t have a clue about what you’ve benn posting

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:05 AM

Also I don't ever advocate for TCI because quite frankly they aren't very good at their job imo but they have been pretty spot on with this. Heres a thread for those of you interested on the subject. Also heres a link to the article on why Clemson stopped with the Academic Common Market.

https://forums.theclemsoninsider.com/showthread.php?t=113134

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2019/03/18/clemson-baseball-hurt-end-common-market-aid-coach-says/3139127002/

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I've linked the Greenville article to show ACM is going


Jun 9, 2019, 12:10 AM

the way of the dodo, MONTE LEE HAS HAD IT ALL FOUR YEARS and we've crap to show for it.

What happens from this point is left to be seen, he's not Jack, does not remotely have Jack's name or influence.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:12 AM

Also teams with big endowments like Vandy, Duke, Virginia to name a few can infinitely out recruit Clemson if it boils down to money. I don't fully understand endowments but I know its based off of donations over the years. To put Clemson's into perspective

Clemson - $754 million
Vandy - $4.13 billion
Virginia - $6.39 billion
Duke - $7.9 billion

Not sure what other big schools are in the southeast but we are incredibly far behind in the endowments. Put that with the fact its $37k for a out of state student and our recruits most of the time being able to go somewhere they can make money (MLB draft) or go to a school like one of these above where they wont have to pay a dime to play and we are in trouble.

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And yet Duke hasn't out recruited Clemson?


Jun 9, 2019, 12:19 AM

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Re-So-Duke-can-afford-to-put-out-a-very-good-baseball-team-but-Clemson-cant-25543373#25543373

But Duke's results...


Private schools, mine included, buy minds with their endowments. Always been that way, nothing new to see there.

UVA was going to shut down their program before deciding to support it. It's one of the public universities I used to support Jack's need for facilities.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:19 AM [ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting ]

Also apparently Boston College, Georgia Tech, NC State, and Wake Forest have endowments twice the amount of ours. One guy on TCI said he believes its because our donors give their money to iptay instead of building the endowments through the alumni association. If that's the case we need to find a way to even that out and get some people to donate to iptay and some to donate to the endowment.

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Clemson is a poor state school in a poor state, that's never


Jun 9, 2019, 12:26 AM

going to change unless Clemson tries to go private, which they're far too poor to do.

Washington and Lee endowment per student, ~$917,000

Clemson endowment per student, ~$30,000


Wilhelm had to deal with a poor school in a poor state, Jack did as well, Monte has had WAY more than both, save a great name - it's a travesty.

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Don't know how true it is, but I've heard numerous times


Jun 9, 2019, 12:39 AM [ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting ]

that every player on usuck's baseball team is somehow on a full scholarship....is this related to the ACM that Clemson discarded

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I don't know about UofSuK, but if true in South Carolina...


Jun 9, 2019, 12:43 AM

that's criminal. That's at least 23 over the limit, maybe not the best use of state funds when states continue to pull away support from their universities.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 10:41 AM [ in reply to Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting ]

I thought we had a drive a few years ago for the endowment and raised some big money. Maybe I am wrong about that. I think money get used a lot as an excuse. Clemson isnt hurting for money and Clemson people step up if there is a need so I think that argument is generally bogus. Plus Clemson people should be able to improvise, overcome, and adapt if they are the caliber of folks we all think they are.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:35 AM

In the future the Baseball program might need more and more help donation/gift wise from more former players like what Brad Miller did when he made a significant gift to help with the player-development facility at Doug Kingsmore Stadium...https://clemsontigers.com/brad-miller-gift/

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 4:29 AM

You are right about 1 thing the quality of the players needs to get better. As far as facilities they are important but not like they are for football.
Clemson has top 25 nice facilities, there are 10-12 schools that have newer and nicer but overall we are fine in that regard. In College baseball the money is the way it is , everyone has to deal with it to some extent.
The problem with Clemson baseball is lack of focus and a lazy approach to the game.
This is all instilled by the Coaching staff and if they want to stay at Clemson philosophies will change.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:00 PM

I've been a baseball season ticket holder for 25 years and it infuriates me to see people blaming our facilities for the decline of our baseball program. To a man every guest speaker at the annual kickoff banquet rave about the baseball facilities and warning the team that they will be
taking a step backwards when they progress to minor league baseball.
Until the obvious problems are corrected, we will continue to be a middle of the ACC pack program.
I will point out a couple of the things I feel need to be addressed.To protect the innocent I will refrain from using player and coaches identities.
First, I've heard of disbelief from players on how little attention is placed on TEAM and it is a much more individual oriented atmosphere, not a strong trait for building a winning program. I don't know Monte Lee from first base, seems like a personal guy but in 4 years I don't get the sense that he has great leadership abilities. IMO there is an obvious lack of enthusiasm on the field.
Second,, 3 years ago a young man traveled to the Clemson area from New Jersey to visit family and wanted to talk to someone at Clemson about the possibility of walking on. The 6'7', 230 lb. left handed pitcher was told by a coach that no one on staff or the whole Athletic Department had time to talk to him.
Nick Snyder just finished his junior season on a very successful WVU baseball team 14-2 and was drafted by Arizona in the 11th round of draft.
I could go on and on about other disturbing facts, but my point of this post is to illustrate that there are far further problems with our baseball program then facilities.
I love Tiger baseball, but I dread were heading in the wrong direction.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 4:32 PM

This is the kind of information that needs to come out and be addressed. That’s extremely concerning about the young man from New Jersey... pitiful.

But see, I’ve heard just the opposite from parents that have kids that are being recruited. Granted these kids as of yet aren’t being recruited by Clemson or u5c but they’ve run the gammit on recruiting and summer leagues etc and they all rave about Monte and his relationship with the kids and hs coaches etc.

Obviously a limited sample size but I just want the truth to come out so we can do whatever it takes to do the cap logo Omaha justice and get there consistently...

Most of us want the same thing. Whether good , bad or indifferent, Jacks gone. Does no good pointing out how he got wronged... he’s gone and all we can do is move on.

Now, to Rob’s original post, since we don’t have the ability to aid oos tuition for the moment, the next thing we can at least keep up with is facilities. What you’re talking about is there’s no since of team speaks to a broader issue that DRad needs to handle. It does seem to support the hackenburg rumor that was going around mid season...

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 12:50 PM

The old facilities question.

These teams have won the National Championship this century.
Coastal Carolina
Fresno State
Cal State Fullerton
Rice
Oregon State
uofsc

Our facilities for players is in the Top 20 if not better.

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 9, 2019, 4:42 PM

According to baseball America 2018 baseball facilities top 10 and 5 honerable mentions coastal was ~6 or so, u5c was 10, and osu and ole miss were honorable mention. Arkansas was number 1 and unc was ~8... Clemson wasn’t mentioned.

Yes, we do have great facilities but improvements can be done. This study they put out wasn’t based on seating capacity or anything.

There was a fan poll that was put out that did rank us high. regardless , DRad and the university have to decide whether or not there’s any issue there. I just love Tiger baseball and yearn for the golden days where supers were something we played in most every year... if you do that, you’ll win your share and make it in the top 8.

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Why do you say this?


Jun 9, 2019, 3:13 PM

"We also can't offer the type of financial assistance to players that other teams can."

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Re: Clemson Baseball/Recruiting


Jun 11, 2019, 8:57 AM

Frontline starters are all it would've taken to win more, advance beyond the regionals and make some noise in the last 4 years. The facilities are fine, the atmosphere is a little laid back though...lots of older folks coming to games and families with kids. Needs to be a bit more like the cheap seats across the board in the stands. I just heard from a former player who said he hated coming to Clemson, he was a RF and caught hell everytime. It's okay to be loud and make the other team uncomfortable.

The ACM will hurt and affect the money awarded to OOS players but all it will take is landing or developing a few frontline guys that can go deep into games and give us a chance and things will work out. CML will get it going and this board will be giggling like little girls when the program is winning and no one will recall this convo.

Go Tigers.

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