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YOUR BALANCE
Thoughts on offense (long)
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Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:32 PM

Last night was bad on offense. It was not simply a matter of Alabama making a few more plays, or a few players making a big mistake. It was a thorough whipping by Alabama, to the point that we didn't even come close to scoring a TD until garbage time at the end of the game. And even then, we couldn't do it.

I have been concerned all year that our offense was bland, predictable, and one dimensional. I for one do not like the zone read stuff. I don't like running the QB as much as we do. I don't like the lack of consistency or creativity in the passing game. I hope Scott and Elliott will address all of these issues, but I just don't know that they will. Heck, I don't even know if they CAN. After all, they are both very young OC's and I'm not convinced they are capable of making significant schematic changes.

What happened to tempo? We don't seem to go fast anymore.

Why don't we seem to throw to the tight end anymore?

What happened to jet sweeps?

Why can't we run to the outside more?

The hardest part about last night was watching our team spend over two quarters trying the same plays that clearly weren't working. Is that stubbornness on the part of our coaches? Or did they not feel that our team was capable of effectively running other plays? If it is the latter, why aren't they capable after 13 games this season?

Last night gave me a sense of complacency, staleness, and a lack of urgency from our offensive staff. It is very concerning, and I hope the coaches take a hard look at things this offseason and show a wilingness to change - both the personnel as well as the philosophy.

TL;DR: Our coaches, while successful, have been very predictable on offense and have not shown a willingness to expand our play selection or to try new things. This concerns me greatly.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


it is possible we are limited by what our QB can do...


Jan 2, 2018, 12:38 PM

not a bash on KB, but I think your observations are not unique to you. Is it possible that these young OCs (not defending them, because I question adjustments last night) actually built our offense this year around our strengths...an offense that won 12 games? We might not be good enough this year to beat Alabama with what we have, no matter what we try. They might just be the better team.

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I think you are probably right.


Jan 2, 2018, 12:53 PM

If so, it makes sense that we are limited. If that is the case, why hasn't a guy who has been in the program almost three years not learned how to expand his game more? Why hasn't our five star true freshman QB (Johnson) been given a chance, at least in some situations, to make plays for us?

I guess I have a hard time throwing up our hands and concluding that a guy isn't capable of more. If not, is it because we haven't tried to coach him better, is it because he doesn't have the physical and/or mental tools, or is it because it isn't possible for him to play better than this?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I thought Johnson was perhaps the answer myself...


Jan 2, 2018, 1:03 PM

Every game he has been in (obviously in mop up duty), he has appeared to be the better passer and actually looked more comfortable behind center, IMO. His last game he was in (where they finally put him in front of Cooper), he didn't look so hot.

Unfortunately, DWs don't come around too often. We were left with very little game experience this year at QB. I think KB will be better with the experience under his belt. An added benefit is his backups should be better. If Lawrence lives up to his billing, we may be blessed to have another DW-type QB in the fold.

Hopefully KB improves, but he may just be a transition QB. We haven't had a lot of experienced depth at QB for some time. We may have a transfer or two next year, but would should start developing some depth there in the coming years.

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Re: I think you are probably right.


Jan 2, 2018, 2:22 PM [ in reply to I think you are probably right. ]

That is exactly it. We won 12 games because we were able to out talent the teams we played. While we are pretty close in talent level, we can’t do that against Bama. People are blaming the O Line, I don’t. 4/5 starters ere the exact same line that beat Bama last year. The difference was all in the QB position. I like KB a lot but he simply is not an elite level QB and will not play QB at the next level. Watson was able to move the pocket to give the receivers a chance to come free, avoid the pressure (as I saw someone say he scrambled looking down field), and he was also able to keep the D honest because he was a threat to hit an intermediate or long ball at any time. He simply had a pocket presence which was amazing, he could feel the pressure and move to avoid it as well as anyone I have ever seen.

Bryant simply is not able to do those things and that will not change. Bryant is run first and has had problems with anything over 15 yards in the passing game all year. Bama challenged us to keep them honest by stacking the box and making us beat them by passing, we couldn’t Bryant simply is not the QB to do that. It is nothing against Bryant, he is an excellent example of a great young man, he simply doesn’t have the skill set to be an elite level passing QB.

You will never run on Bama consistently unless you have a O line full of elite linemen that can go blow for blow against an elite D and at a minimum hold their own. We simply don’t have that nor will we have it next year either. That is why I said all the way back to the spring that IMO the coaching staff needed to take our 5 Star #2 rated QB and invest the time needed to make him the starter from game 1. KB may have given the Tigers the best chance of winning early but he did not and will not ever give us the best chance to beat a “Bama” type team at least not until we have a true elite OL (see above). That should be our goal every year, to field a team that can win against a Bama. We do that and everything else will fall in place.

I firmly believe that had that been done, we would not have lost over 1 game, would have still won the ACC and made it to the CFP, and we would have been in much better shape to match up with a Bama type team that could dare you to beat them with the pass.

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Yes. Kirby Smart was asked what UGA needed to do in the 2H


Jan 2, 2018, 12:53 PM [ in reply to it is possible we are limited by what our QB can do... ]

and he said make OU one-dimensional and they did.

Those that felt Alabama & Saban had a distinct advantage in the match up between their D and Clemson's O were right. They put Clemson in 3rd and long, begged KB2 to beat them.

Hunter Renfrow was asked during the week leading up the biggest difference between KB2 & DW4, he said, ~"DW4 scrambled with his eyes down the field looking to make plays in the passing game, KB2 scrambled to run" and that's why Dabo jumped his ### last night for not letting the play develop, tucking and running far too soon.

It was a bad match up for Clemson, Alabama pressed all night until the end and took the fight to CU.

10 men within 5ish yards of the LOS on 3rd & 8, early and often.



Hats off to Alabama and Saban, and to our Tigers for another great year!

It'll be an interesting off season discussing how to improve our passing game to make teams that can, pay for the pressure Bama brought. And really, how many teams in all of college football can bring it like that?

***KB2 eclipsed 300 yards once all year in the passing game, some by design and some for lack of proficiency in mid to long plays. I imagine Saban licked his lips at this match up.

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Exactly...


Jan 2, 2018, 1:05 PM

KB, much like Hurts did last year, is thinking run first. Hurts improved in that area this year.

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Not that what we do matters, but the very reason I hoped


Jan 2, 2018, 1:11 PM

Wisconsin was the 4th team and rooted for them to beat the Nut Necklaces in the B1GCG, was not to face the Badgers, but to avoid last night's match up.

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bama was best team all year - most on tardnet cannot


Jan 2, 2018, 1:17 PM

see that - kudos for noticing. it was never a good match up. much like the cuse loss for clemson, the albarn loss for bama was an anomaly. had we played ughey or schooners, we win fairly easily. only to lose to bama in title game.

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I for one am glad you are stopping. You are one of the most ignorant posters ever. You obviously think very highly of your own opinion, unlike the rest of us - RockHillTiger


I actually thought that the committee would have...


Jan 2, 2018, 1:18 PM [ in reply to Not that what we do matters, but the very reason I hoped ]

put Oklahoma at 1 when Alabama lost. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the matchups were created.

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I was more focused on how a team that plays for their CCG


Jan 2, 2018, 1:32 PM

and is considered better than Bama in week 14, is considered worse than Bama after Bama was idle?

Wisconsin had the ball with 3 mins left against OSU and a chance to win. Why are they penalized for risking their perfect season in that way - an extra game, or why is Alabama put ahead of them with no additional information provided on their part?

Also, if you give Alabama a pass for their injuries, which seems to be some of the case, I don't know why they're not considered higher than 4 as their only loss was on the road to their instate rival, No. 2 in all the land and clearly Bama was hampered.

I don't have a notion that someone wanted to avoid a Clemson-Bama final and honestly, UGA's defense would have caused Clemson's O as much trouble.



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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:41 PM

My concerns as well. No imagination whatsoever. Oklahoma constantly had people moving around the ball. Gets the defense in a guessing game. We don't have that.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:48 PM

Its hard to be creative on offense when the defensive line is whipping our olinemen's butts. That was the main problem last night. I think the game plan was the same as it had been all season, which had been working.

Clearing Alabama planned for that and did a great job defending it. I agree we got outcoached, but we got outplayed as well.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 1:00 PM

I think one reason they were owning our OL so badly is because they were able to go man-to-man in the secondary and put everyone else in the box. Our receivers were not able to get open one-on-one and/or KB was not able to hit them with quick passes to beat the constant blitzing. We were outplayed up front, and apparently we had no answer for the breakdown of pass protection. We need more 2 TE packages that put more beef in between the QB and Bama's roid raging front 8. The Alabama defense played a near perfect game and were overall more talented than the guys across from them. Kudos to the evil empire. We will be back.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:43 PM

We didnt run block or give WRs time to run routes after being jamed atc the line. KB didnt have time to check down. We tried running left by not blocking their left end, but he was too quick. KB seemed to hesitate or stutter step before taking off and that didn't work either. Bama couldn't run wide either because of our defensive speed. Same for us. We needed a little time for some down field throws but couldn't do it.

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I agree, the core problem was our offensive line.


Jan 2, 2018, 12:54 PM

I don't fault Kelly Bryant for our loss last night. He played well when he had opportunities, and even made some great plays when he shouldn't have.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:43 PM

We didnt run block or give WRs time to run routes after being jamed atc the line. KB didnt have time to check down. We tried running left by not blocking their left end, but he was too quick. KB seemed to hesitate or stutter step before taking off and that didn't work either. Bama couldn't run wide either because of our defensive speed. Same for us. We needed a little time for some down field throws but couldn't do it.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:45 PM

Agreed, to me the OL looked lost. yeah they got their a## handed to them regularly, but if you go back an look, it's like they had no idea who to block, so they just stood there. #33 came unblocked on about 50% of the plays. I don't think KB is the best QB in the world, but I do believe that if he were given some time, he could have completed some plays. It's hard to stand there and look downfield when 6 head are running circles around the OL. We clearly couldn't pass from the pocket, but not once do I recall us trying to move the pocket to open up passing lanes. All the extra time to prepare?? We just were not ready for that defense last night.
To credit our defense, we did hold a well rested and prepared Alabama offense to it's lowest offensive output of the year. As did their defense!

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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei.


Why stop there?


Jan 2, 2018, 12:45 PM

Why not get on the coaches about personnel? It was very clear midway through the season that KB can't pass mid-to-long range worth a darn. Johnson, though, can. He out-executed the other QBs when given a chance. It took the Syracuse loss for the coaches to see that Johnson probably wins that game and he became #2.

We had to pass to win the game. KB couldn't do it. Johnson should have been prepared (with lots of game time during the season and reps in bowl practice) and given a chance - he was our best hope. Now, with our O-Line play, maybe he couldn't have delivered, either, but we KNEW KB couldn't.

It's not just the QB situation. Cain couldn't catch this year, etc. This coaching staff favors the established. I favor execution. I'd rather have a QB playing that can execute 1/4 of the playbook than a QB who knows the whole playbook, but can't execute it. Again, QB is an example. Look at recent WRs, RBs, etc.

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I agree about Johnson. He is a 5 star QB for a reason.


Jan 2, 2018, 12:59 PM

He might not be the best all-around QB for us at this point, but he does have strengths and I feel that it was certainly worth a shot last night to give him a series or two when it was clear that what we were doing with Bryant was not effective.

I don't understand the hesitation by our coaches on offense to shake things up. We stuck with the same predictable plays until the third quarter. Why not try something different in the first quarter, or the second quarter? Same with our QB. Bryant has been great for us, but he wasn't getting it done last night so why not try someone else?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Dear Sir/Madam


Jan 2, 2018, 12:49 PM

We are obviously not the same offense we were last year, but it's the same guys who designed a national championship gameplan and had had us right on the cusp again.

We are all hurt - fans, players, coaches...but let's not let our emotions spill over into what are tangible and measureable positives.

The offense didn't perform as well as we needed last night. Obviously. But the offense has done more than any other time in school history and just took us back to the final four in a year where we were EXPECTED to have a drop off.

Let's not let our emotions cause overaction.

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I don't think it is an overreaction to ask these questions.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:03 PM

While our offense has been adequate all year, it rarely set the world on fire. A game like last night showed us that our offensive issues are far greater than we thought. We didn't lose a close game, and we can't just point to a few plays we didn't make. We were absolutely dominated by Alabama's defense.

If we keep things the same for next year, and don't make some changes, why should we have any confidence that things will go any better in next year's playoffs?

And yes, we were great last year. We also had Deshaun Watson, one of the best college QBs in a long time. He obviously made up for a multitude of errors.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:51 PM

One catch by a receiver in the first quarter on a ball that hit him in the hands and one ball that doesn't bounce off a receiver's hands for a pick 6 and we are fine.

Those are the obvious problems without the issues the running backs were having blocking.

I agree that Alabama's defense was living in our backfield.

Our receivers have not shown much blocking ability so the sideline passes that were working for Alabama don't work for us.


Message was edited by: castaway®


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Follow-up questions.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:10 PM

Why couldn't our offensive linemen block them?

Why can't our receivers block well?

Why can't Bryant consistently throw downfield?

Why can't our receivers (minus Renfrow) consistently catch passes?

Many of these players who were not executing have been in the program for a while. I don't think it is a talent issue, based on recruiting rankings (especially since we like to call ourselves "WRU"). Is it a coaching issue? Is it an issue with players being dedicated and wanting to excel?

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 12:57 PM

We had 2 problems working in conjunction against the wrong team. 1. The OL couldn't create holes or pass block 2. KB is not a passer that can cover up OL problems like DW4 did. He's proved this yr in Houston that he's more athletic/elusive than at least I gave him credit for at Clemson. He made defenders look silly evading this yr and they're all fast & bigger.

We've gotta have OL recruiting classes like UGA just had and Bama has had for yrs. If not then Hunter Johnson or Trevor Lawrence better be the QB to be able to pass us past the OL problems.

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The lack of up tempo was as much about resting our D


Jan 2, 2018, 12:58 PM

as anything else. Seems we usually go hurry-up to build additional momentum after we've picked up a few first downs when the drive is already working and the defense is on their heels. That was never the case last night. Going up tempo for three and out would've made things worse I'm afraid.

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I don't recall us going up tempo much this year at all.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:33 PM

Maybe it would've failed and put our defense in a tougher position, but maybe it would've worked and we could've moved the ball and at least flipped the field position, if not scored some points.

What we did last night clearly was not working. The fact that we didn't seem to try anything different until the third quarter was extremely frustrating.

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Agreed on needIng more creativity and tempo but


Jan 2, 2018, 1:09 PM

Also need a QB who can sling the ball. I like Kelly B. Really do but to beat Bama you have to throw the ball and throw it well. Hopefully next year instead of taking the starters out so early Dabo will leave them in to let them learn how to do everything well like passing the ball. It would be nice to run the ball the way Alabama was but I don’t think we have an O-line that could dominate the better teams. Yeah the o-line had some great games but when the lights were the brightest they didn’t perform last night. I know they will put in the work and get better. Just hope they learn from there mistakes and it makes the guys stronger. GO TIGERS!!

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I agree 100% about needing a really good passing QB.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:35 PM

Which is why I don't like the fact that our offensive philosophy is to run the QB so much. Don't get me wrong, having an athletic QB who can scramble is a great luxury to have, and it needs to be part of our offensive philosophy. But our number 1 focus, in my opinion, should be on passing the ball. I want a pass-first offense, and this year especially I feel like it has been a run-first offense. Maybe that's not reality, but that is how it feels watching our games. That strategy hurts us in games like this.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

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The long layoff seemed to impact communication on the OL ...


Jan 2, 2018, 1:12 PM

and overall timing on the offensive plays. Bama exacerbated the situation with their overall defensive talent. Also Bama got away with holding of our WR’s. Our WRs this year are not quite as talented or as physically strong as last year’s. There was also a big drop off at TE. Finally field position was bad most of the game. Overall last night’s offense looked pretty bad but not sure it is time to panic

If you look at the NCSU, SoCar and Miami games, the Clemson offense was much crisper and efficient against decent defenses. Our Co-OCs probably did a good job this year all things considered.

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I see your points. But I have a very good feeling (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 1:35 PM

nothing you said was news to our offensive coaches. What we probably don't know is what Alabama figured out, and that is our weakness on offense. It's not like our coaches are going to publicize our scheme or plans or play-calling based on our strengths and weaknesses. We changed our offense a LOT this year to make the most out of what we have and are good at. In reality, you probably should credit our offensive coaches for getting so much out of what otherwise is a mediocre offense.

The fact is we can't throw deep anymore. It's partly the O-line not giving enough time for KB to make the passes. It's partly ETN not being able to pass block effectively. It's part KB not having the ice in his veins that DW4 had. And it's part our receivers lost a huge player (as a decoy mainly) with Williams. Our tight end is not as good as well as we have had in years past.

With DW4 we had the luxury of the deep ball threat. He could get off a deep pass better than any other QB in the country, given our offensive line. We also had better RB pass blocking before ETN. Nope. This year we were forced, due to personnel and attrition, to focus more on running the ball. When we can run the ball, KB then has opportunities for the long passes, and we beat people badly. But Bama sold their soul at the beginning to stop the run. They knew our weakness was the long pass, so they stopped our bread and butter. Then when we tried to extend the field passing when it was clear we HAD to, we folded with a pick 6 and another turnover.

IMO we overachieved with what we had to work with overall on the year. Bama was really the first team to have the personnel and coaching to stop our offense totally. And I think our coaches knew this, and it probably carried over some to the motivation or lack thereof, on offense. Stop our running game and we're one dimensional. Bama was the first team to really do that effectively.

Next year we have Lawrence coming in and he has the skill set to run what we want to run on offense. Our playbook will probably look a lot more wide open with him at QB, assuming he learns what he needs to learn. I would not be surprised in the least to see Lawrence starting next year simply because of what we have held off calling offensively all year. We never looked one dimensional in any game with DW4 as QB. And I would bet we haven't spent years recruiting Lawrence to have him come in and sit behind a veteran to learn a limited system. What we have done this entire year was change our offense to fit KB's strengths and weaknesses. How we transition our offense and play calling and schemes with Lawrence next year will be interesting to watch. Unless he has issues being easily rattled, or learning our system (that we WANT to run) I don't see him not starting for us. He already brings a skill set to the table that's better than KB's (more diverse). But that alone won't give him a starting role. How he handles the adversity of practicing against our defense, and how he learns the system, and how he leads will determine if he starts. Skill wise, he's going to give us much more options than KB had, and I think you will be pleased to see our play calling change as well. Will make for very interesting spring practices to see how he develops.

When the coaches talk about each year being a new team, they're not just paying lip service. It is a brand new team and our offense, and defense, will change as needed to adjust to the team we have each specific year. In a way we ran a brand new offense this year with KB because of what he gave us, and didn't give us. Next year we have new players coming in and others leaving. It will all change again. Lawrence may have problems that keep us from running the ball as well, and at the end of the year next year we may be complaining about our lack of a running game. But we will have won as many games as we could passing the ball.

Just remember we should have never made the playoffs, or the ACCCG even, according to the preseason pundits. We took our less effective offense and made lemonade out of lemons. Maybe next year we may make orange juice out of oranges.

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Thank you for your post. That is very helpful.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:40 PM

I had not thought about things from that angle, but what you said makes complete sense. Hopefully Lawrence will be everything we hope, and will be given a chance to be the guy sooner rather than later. And finally, here's to our coaches opening things up a bit on offense next year. We should still be very good on defense, despite what will surely be significant losses in terms of personnel.

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Re: Thoughts on offense (long)


Jan 2, 2018, 1:44 PM

Right on... I have said this all year. Changes on offense have to be made to reach the potential of our talent. It hasn't been creative coaching that has gotten us this far just talent.

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