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YOUR BALANCE
Clemson Basketball lost it's Director of Recruiting after 9
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Clemson Basketball lost it's Director of Recruiting after 9


Apr 16, 2019, 11:47 AM

years at Clemson.

Positive or negative?

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Clemson basketball recruits?


Apr 16, 2019, 11:50 AM

TIL

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Snowflake Basher........Out


Re: Clemson Basketball lost it's Director of Recruiting after 9


Apr 16, 2019, 12:10 PM

think it has little to no effect for us. it was simply professional advancement for Lucas. he wanted to be an "on floor coach" and now he's getting the chance

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I would think it would be good news for all the people


Apr 16, 2019, 12:21 PM

whining about recruiting

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and bad news for everyone else?


Apr 16, 2019, 12:23 PM

Interesting point.

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link to where I said that?***


Apr 16, 2019, 5:18 PM



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Here you go!


Apr 16, 2019, 5:54 PM

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/I-would-think-it-would-be-good-news-for-all-the-people-25334575

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Where specifically did I say bad news for everyone else?***


Apr 16, 2019, 11:01 PM



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Its okay to admit when you're wrong


Apr 16, 2019, 11:39 PM

Ace

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Where exactly was I wrong Einstein?***


Apr 17, 2019, 12:03 AM



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You mean in this thread or


Apr 17, 2019, 3:36 AM

like most of the time? Please dont ask for links. They're all through your post history, Ace.

Its okay to admit when you're wrong. Try it, for once.

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This thread Slick, can you back up any of your claims?


Apr 17, 2019, 1:20 PM

I see you've chosen the "please don't ask for links, I can't provide them" defense?

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He/she never has any evidence for said claims.


Apr 17, 2019, 2:54 PM

Just "you're wrong" and "because I said so" type drivel.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: He/she never has any evidence for said claims.


Apr 17, 2019, 4:58 PM

link to where he said "because i said so"?

see how that goes?

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Link to where I asked for your input?


Apr 17, 2019, 5:24 PM

;)

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Based on 9 years, good point.***


Apr 16, 2019, 11:38 PM [ in reply to I would think it would be good news for all the people ]



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Re: Clemson Basketball lost it's Director of Recruiting after 9


Apr 16, 2019, 12:30 PM

Well, he wasn't in that position the whole time. Just recently.

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Lol!!!! Do you really think Brad’s staff has


Apr 16, 2019, 12:38 PM

Recruited well? Our instate recruiting has been nonexistent even if you disregard the 5 stars.

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Re: Lol!!!! Do you really think Brad’s staff has


Apr 16, 2019, 1:18 PM

He needs to find a great recruiting coach he's lost a ton of instate players.With the right hire I think this is positive.

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Re: Lol!!!! Do you really think Brad’s staff has


Apr 16, 2019, 7:10 PM

ahhhhhh... you do know that the position Lucus was in could not recruit off campus?

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Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 16, 2019, 1:26 PM [ in reply to Lol!!!! Do you really think Brad’s staff has ]

in recruiting?

Please keep in mind that we are at or near the bottom in the ACC the following areas:

-Basketball history
-Basketball spending
-Basketball attendance

Looking forward to your answer.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 16, 2019, 4:33 PM

I didn’t say anything about rankings, my point was the state of South Carolina has produced more 4 star talent the last 5 years than football and we’ve gotten none. Coach Brownell two predecessors were able to recruit the state.


It’s Coach Brownell job to sell his vision not only to high school players but to the athletic department the administration and the fans and make this a good job he has failed to do that and should’ve been fired years ago.

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Hard to argue


Apr 16, 2019, 4:48 PM

should be impossible to argue after next year

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Re: Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 16, 2019, 6:01 PM [ in reply to Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC ]

We are also near the bottom in coaching.
There is no guarantee throwing money at a big name coach will turn us around either. We need to find our right fit. See Tony Bennett at uva. Perfect match. I don’t think he would be a good fit at unc or duke. We need to find our perfect match.

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Re: Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 17, 2019, 2:02 PM

Near the bottom of coaching? Go ask Wake about that. Brad is one heck of a coach and really good at getting more from the talent level than just about anyone else currently active.

Tony Bennett was a Sweet 16 coach at WSU before WSU started cutting their Basketball budget. His father coached there before. UVA also invested 130 million into their basketball facilities in 2006 (aka 170 million in 2018 cash). So basically, UVA said "we got the expenses covered" .... but he wasn't going to take UVA over WSU, but his wife (from Charlotte NC) and then the cut to recruiting budget sold him otherwise.

How many recent Sweet 16 programs are looking to cut their basketball budget/let a coach go? Sad to say that Clemson might be the closest to that item.

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Re: Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 16, 2019, 7:03 PM [ in reply to Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC ]

Judge, you have never countered my point. You do not have to recruit at the same level, the same players are Duke.We are not going to do that just as Duke will not be recruiting our Football players. BUT, and a big BUT . . you can still win. This is especially true at BB and much less so at FB. But the recruiting has to have a goal a plan on how we will win. Run the floor and match Duke shot for shot . .um NO. Have great D players, foul shooters and position shooters, very possible. Be a step slower than Duke, yes. Be tactical rebounders? Um yes. Can you win this way? Um yes . .Congrats VA !!!

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I think Brad does do that.


Apr 17, 2019, 3:05 PM

Fans who say our team is boring are failing to understand that the style of play Brad runs is based on our personnel versus the other team's. Because of this strategy focusing on good, hard-nosed defense as well as (ideally) a motion offense utilizing good three point shooters, we are able to be competitive against teams we aren't supposed to beat.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Lame excuses.***


Apr 16, 2019, 11:40 PM [ in reply to Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC ]



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I haven't made any excuses.


Apr 17, 2019, 3:08 PM

You need to learn the difference between disadvantages and excuses.

If you want Clemson to be better at basketball, you'll start paying attention to these issues rather than referring to them as excuses.

Assuming you actually care about our basketball program (a huge assumption, I realize), I have a few questions for you:

1. How would you feel if our football program spent less on football compared to almost every other ACC team?

2. How would you feel if recruits walked into a half-full Death Valley for recruiting visits?

3. How would you feel if Clemson football wasn't on a level playing field with our peers?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: I haven't made any excuses.


Apr 17, 2019, 4:21 PM

These clowns won't stop crying until we are a perennial sweet 16 team. These were the same people that wanted Purnell fired, and now they are talking about Purnell as if he was a king!

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What's worse is that they want more success


Apr 17, 2019, 4:53 PM

but expect it on a shoestring budget.

It's like walking into a bar wanting an 18 year Macallan for $2.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


every coach before Brownell had a shoestring budget...


Apr 17, 2019, 5:36 PM

there has not been a cut in the budget to Brownell in contrast to any other Clemson coach. Amanda Butler obviously had to deal with the same issues, if not more so, for the women's team... but she took Audra Smith's 11-19 team, guided them to 18-11 and a tournament invite and actually won a game in the ACC tourney and the NCAA tourney. Amanda Butler had smaller crowds at Littlejohn and a recent history even worse than what Brownell inherited, so, why does Brownell get a pass when AB is not letting all of those factors hold her back?

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Oh Good Lord***


Apr 17, 2019, 9:14 PM



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Re: What's worse is that they want more success


Apr 18, 2019, 5:13 PM [ in reply to What's worse is that they want more success ]

How about for $ tree fitty?

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And too


Apr 16, 2019, 11:41 PM [ in reply to Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC ]

You most definitely said Brad is a good recruiter...in spite of those lame excuses.

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Re: Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC


Apr 19, 2019, 12:43 PM [ in reply to Where do you expect Clemson basketball to rank in the ACC ]

Clemson not spending money is a BS response. We spent $6.3m in 2018 which is in top 20% across D1 and that doesn't include the millions we just spent on renovations over the couple yrs prior. We may be on the low end of the ACC but we are within $500k of many quality programs and make that a million and it includes a bunch of upper echelon schools. Schools like Florida, Vandy, Tennessee, Cincinnati, Iowa St, and Texas Tech. We spend more than schools that eat and sleep basketball like DePaul, VCU, Witchita, Butler, UNLV, etc. So that doesn't hold water as far as spending and I assume that number would easily increase if we we're winning and putting butts in seats.

That said, if you look at the attendance during OP tenure I can assure you we were averaging substantially higher numbers as we were competing and playing with excitement. Our game is boring and the players have little enthusiasm as they play which is often the demeanor of the HC.

Brownell is a good person who has tried to do it the right way but it's time to move on. It's time to build some excitement in the program. I don't know a single Clemson fan that is excited with the program, excited for the upcoming season, as hope for being successful is lacking.

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You're bragging about being in the top 20% of D1 spending?


Apr 19, 2019, 12:57 PM

Given the fact that there are 351 teams in Division 1 college basketball, top 20% means that we are in the top 70. Do you think that is satisfactory?

You also mentioned the facilities we recently built. Since then, we have won 20 games two years in a row, including a Sweet 16 appearance, and have our best recruiting class under Brownell coming in this year. Don't you find these accomplishments the last two years encouraging? Given that, don't you think he deserves more time to see what he can continue to build now that he actually has some positives to work with?

The idea that we need to "build excitement within the program" is ridiculous. If the aforementioned accomplishments the past couple of seasons don't get fans excited, I'm not sure what will. If regular trips to the NCAAs are required to get enough fans excited, then let's look at continued increases in funding for our program, continued facility upgrades, and a little patience as well in order to hopefully make that happen.

We don't play a boring brand of basketball at all. If fans require nothing but dunks and three pointers all game to get them excited, then they don't have realistic expectations.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I can state unequivocally that the staff identifies good


Apr 16, 2019, 7:18 PM [ in reply to Lol!!!! Do you really think Brad’s staff has ]

recruits, but here are some summaries of things from the head guy even about players that are interested in Clemson:

"that guy isn't going to want to come here..." (response to more than one highly regarded prospect)
"he wants to play in a big city..." (response to a player from a big city)
"too many people are in his ear..." (response to handlers)
"his dad should be our best recruiter..." (response to a legacy)

I don't know why those things would come to mind if the player wants to hear from the coach, but asst coaches, former Clemson athletes and even former bball players have brought up players to only be shunned with excuses...

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Re: I can state unequivocally that the staff identifies good


Apr 16, 2019, 11:06 PM

Sounds like Judge. He’s full of excuses.

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She sure is. Sure do wish she would stop with them***


Apr 16, 2019, 11:43 PM



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I'm impressed by how well you type


Apr 17, 2019, 4:54 PM

given the fact that your head is buried in the sand.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Link to where Brownell said those things?***


Apr 17, 2019, 4:54 PM [ in reply to I can state unequivocally that the staff identifies good ]



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


there is no link, but that doesn't make it untrue


Apr 17, 2019, 5:42 PM

I had conversations with the former Clemson athlete and former Clemson bball players... I'm sharing what I know for perspective, it's up to you to believe it or not and it won't make any difference to me if you do or do not believe it...

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Yep. Sigh.***


Apr 16, 2019, 11:37 PM



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Re: Yep. Sigh.***


Apr 17, 2019, 1:54 PM

Brownell has been on par recruiting with just about every other coach we've had.

We have had only 11 4* recruits in the last 20 years. More than half of those have not lived up to their 4* billing.

Since the new construction, Brownell has hauled in his best two classes. We have also arguably had the best back to back seasons in our history. (not certain on that and I'm not looking it up)

Prior to construction Clemson had the following:

- The worst facilities in the ACC
- The worst tradition
- Bottom of the ACC in basketball financial support

Everyone needs to chill TF out on Brownell. This season sucked, but it is behind us.

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Being on par recruiting wise is great


Apr 17, 2019, 5:14 PM

if those recruits produce on the court according to their billing. But their performance can be influenced by several different factors, the two biggest being getting the coaching that maximizes their potential and the competition that they play against.

as far as the best back to back seasons in the history, Brownell has not produced back to back 20 win REGULAR seasons where as OP produced 4 20-win REGULAR seasons in a row.

I do hope that this year's recruiting class has an immediate impact on the court, because we are going to need it to avoid a free fall to the bottom of the conference.

As far as the points about tradition, facilities, and financial support, Amanda Butler overcame the exact same issues in her 1ST year as coach of the women playing for the same university. She took an 11-19 team that she inherited to an 18-11 regular season and a tournament invite in that 1ST year.

I don't care who the coach and his staff are as long as they produce the wins and maintain their integrity, and they can produce wins and maintain their integrity with a cohesive, strategic plan for how to get it done even at Clemson University because it has been done before...

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I’m not really sure why you are bringing up Coach Butler.


Apr 17, 2019, 5:27 PM

All I keep reading here is how one season doesn’t matter, at least when it relates to our sweet 16 season last year. As a result, shouldn’t we see how our women’s program does over the next few seasons before we are allowed to sing coach Butler‘s praises?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Coach Butler deserves to have her praises sung


Apr 17, 2019, 5:46 PM

for the work that she put in, do you not agree with that?

Did we not sing Brad's praises after the Sweet 16 season and allow our expectations to climb for the following season because of the nucleus of players returning? It's on Brad that the following season did not meet expectations and that the projection for this coming season is bleak...

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Re: Coach Butler deserves to have her praises sung


Apr 18, 2019, 7:54 AM

Correct, she does deserve to have her praises sung for the fantastic season they had.

Comparing men's college basketball to women's college basketball is laughable.

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do you not think that it takes the same effort and attention


Apr 18, 2019, 6:15 PM

to effectively operate a wonen's basketball program as it does a men's program?? the operations are the same for 80% or more of the planning and execution of that plan to create success. even on the court, the planning and strategy is the same, the biggest difference is in the physical abilities and managing of egos of men and women. but what it takes for the coach to plan and execute for success is no different...

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Of course she should have her praises sung.


Apr 18, 2019, 11:46 AM [ in reply to Coach Butler deserves to have her praises sung ]

I think she was a great hire, and she did a fantastic job this year in her first season.

I'm asking for some consistency. Brad had a great year his first year, but it is discounted by some here because it was "Purnell's players." Brad had an especially great year recently, with entirely his own players, but it is discounted because he doesn't do it enough.

Heck, we won 20 games this past season and finished tied for 8th in the ACC, both way way better than our historical average, and our "fans" here are saying that we suck and that the season deserves an F grade. Talk about being out of touch with reality!

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


one of Brad's issues is maintaining consistency


Apr 18, 2019, 6:04 PM

and it's that lack of consistency that requires a deeper look. Also, an average 8th place finish is most definitely not "way better" than the historical average, given that 6th out of 8 teams, 7th out of 10 teams or 8th out of 14 teams all skew to the bottom 3rd to bottom 4th of the conference, which is where Brownell has guided the program.

as for the 20 wins, that is a great numerical value but in the landscape of college basketball, it's not enough on its own without impact wins warrant a tourney invite... those 20 wins actually included a tied for 8th, actual 9th place finish in the conference because NC state held the tiebreaker against us.

Brownell as coach has guided Clemson to a strong enough record to earn tourney invites only 2 out of 9 seasons... and doesn't appear that he will get his 3rd tourney invite by the time his 10th season is concluded. So, even in a vacuum, earning a tourney invite on 20% of the time every decade is not consistent enough... even if he gets the 3rd invite, 30% of a decade is not consistent enough. But if he does coach next year's team to a tourney invite, I will reconsider my position because DRad has given him next year to coach the team.

but please answer this question, does a coach deserve to keep his job and get a contract extension with a buyout when he guides his teams to tournament invites 2 or 3 times out of every 10 seasons? if you keep him, you've got to extend him, otherwise he's a lame duck and can't recruit effectively...

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Finishing 8th out of 15 teams is as middle of the pack


Apr 19, 2019, 11:13 AM

as one can be. How on earth do you consider 8th to be bottom third to bottom fourth of the conference?!?

Given 15 teams:

-Top third = 1-5
-Middle third = 6-10
-Bottom third = 11-15

-Top fourth = 1-4
-Second fourth = 5-8
-Third fourth = 9-12
-Bottom fourth = 13-15

I'm not sure why you are trying to discount the accomplishments we have seen under Brownell. Finishing 8th on average since the conference went to 15 teams is way better than Clemson's historical average. It is also clearly NOT bottom third to bottom fourth of the conference.

I hope you didn't take math at Clemson, and if you did, I hope you got an F.

Like you, I want to see our basketball program improve. However, unlike you I see a coach who has done very well given the significant disadvantages he's had, including:

-Clemson has the worst basketball history in the ACC
-Clemson has the second lowest funding for basketball in the ACC
-Clemson didn't give him the facilities he asked for until year 7 of his tenure, and that required him to raise most of the money himself, only to have the plans downgraded after the fact from a new arena to a renovation
-Clemson didn't give him the assistant coach salaries and support staff he asked for until year 8 of his tenure
-Clemson has low fan support for basketball compared to most of the rest of the ACC

You want a better basketball program? Stop blaming the coach for significant issues with how the program is funded and supported at Clemson. Heck, finishing 8th on average despite those disadvantages is impressive. We are routinely competitive against teams with much better basketball histories and support than we have.

In the two years since he has had the facilities and staff funding he has asked for (the combination of which still puts us middle of the pack at best in the ACC), we have gone to a Sweet 16, won 20 games both seasons, and have our best recruiting class in over a decade coming to Clemson. If you and others can't see how well this staff has done despite significant limitations, and how the aforementioned improvements have already started to benefit the program, I can't help you.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


in the constant refrain from your cousins south of


Apr 19, 2019, 2:22 PM

Clemson, "wait til next year"... but please go back and answer my question:

"does a coach deserve to keep his job and get a contract extension with a buyout when he guides his teams to tournament invites 2 or 3 times out of every 10 seasons?"

again, if you keep him, you've got to extend him, otherwise he's a lame duck and can't recruit effectively...

also, please explain this: "-Clemson didn't give him the facilities he asked for until year 7 of his tenure, and that required him to raise most of the money himself, only to have the plans downgraded after the fact from a new arena to a renovation"... WHAT FUNDRAISING CAMPAIGN DID BROWNELL PERSONALLY INITIATE AND EXECUTE WITHOUT HELP FROM THE UNIVERSITY OR IPTAY?? HOW MUCH DID HE RAISE?? why did he not take all those dollars he raised, give DRad, IPTAY and the BOT two middle fingers straight up and go someplace that would appreciate a coach who would and could raise money enough to fund renovations of a college basketball facility??

also, if next years team bottoms out to a sub .500 record and does not even get an invite to the NIT, are facilities, fan support, money from the AD still the issues considering he just had "the best recruiting class in over a decade"? but keep in mind that Brownell is responsible for ALL of those recruiting classes in the last decade...

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Re: Clemson Basketball lost it's Director of Recruiting after 9


Apr 17, 2019, 2:53 PM

You are just dumb and trying to stir the pot. Lucas was our director of recruiting for 1 year. He was previously our video coordinator and director of operations. In fact, the director of recruiting position was created a few years ago when we added Nick Bowman to the staff and really the title of the position is pretty misleading. Programs add positions to have more guys who can offer input for coaching.

So don't even try to put any blame or fame on someone in that position.

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Just wake me up when we have a realistic chance of beating


Apr 18, 2019, 8:01 AM

Duke and North Carolina....


Thanks.

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We very nearly beat UNC this year.


Apr 18, 2019, 11:46 AM

And we did beat them last year.

We have beaten Duke in the not too distant past.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


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