Replies: 60
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CU Guru [1702]
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Orange Blooded [2724]
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john Harvard and Eli Yale were pro slaves. Change
Apr 21, 2019, 1:20 PM
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their university names.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: john Harvard and Eli Yale were pro slaves. Change
Apr 21, 2019, 1:51 PM
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eli yale was a slave trader, but I have no idea why you think Harvard was pro slavery.
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All-TigerNet [10315]
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Re: john Harvard and Eli Yale were pro slaves. Change
Apr 21, 2019, 8:54 PM
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eli yale was a slave trader, but I have no idea why you think Harvard was pro slavery.
I agree that John Harvard was not involved in slavery. He was a preacher and provided finances to Harvard on his death bed 2 years after Harvard was founded. Later the school was given his name. However, Harvard University has a history with slave support and profited from slave trade in the past even with employees at university working as slave traders on the side. They have had troubles with slavery even more recently.
A Harvard University professor came to SC and had pictures taken of slaves in the 1850s. The pictures were put away and forgotten until found in the 1970s. Harvard started selling copies of the pictures for a profit and received money from others using the likenesses, then were sued by the slave's family.
I don't hear about this kind of "stuff" from Clemson. I went to Clemson just a few years after integration and never saw any disrespect for any student of any race or nationality. Tillman, Calhoun, Clemson, and other names were synonymous with SC and US History but not once did I ever think about or care about how they lived their lives.
To paraphrase a post I made a couple months back, anyone that has a problem with the Clemson's founders past and can't accept it, does not have to come here.
If you come to Clemson, respect the university and treat others with respect.
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Orange Blooded [3294]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 2:08 PM
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I agree, but we should then remove the name of George Washington from our history, nation's capital and the monument in DC. We should also remove his face from our currency and close Mt. Vernon.(Article below)
George Washington
Washington's background. When George Washington was eleven years old, he inherited ten slaves; by the time of his death, 317 slaves lived at Mount Vernon, including 123 owned by Washington, 40 leased from a neighbor, and an additional 153 "dower slaves."
Thomas Green Clemson
Thomas Green Clemson, the University’s founder and namesake, was as complex as the times in which he lived. In his 80 years, he achieved fame as a diplomat, an agriculturalist and a mining engineer. Clemson was a renaissance man whose hobbies included music, art and the classics of the ancient world. Clemson was also a Confederate officer and a plantation and slave owner.
Having this bit of knowledge means that tuition should increase significantly to pay the Green family back for the land Clemson sits on. After all you would not want to be a hypocrite by keeping the land of a slave owner.
The student council should vote to accept these measures immediately to show that they truly back the cause of removing John C Calhoun's name from the building. Oh yea and change the name of the college too.
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Orange Blooded [2089]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 2:09 PM
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Before it’s over most of our history will be removed because of thin skinned people.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 3:47 PM
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It’s much deeper than that. Think about it, folks. These liberals are trying to remove history from things so it’ll be easier to push their socialist agenda on future generations. It’s truly pathetic that this nation is so completely divided like it is. The Obama presidency set us back 50+ years as a society, and it’s still going on. Just sad...
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110%er [7551]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 8:03 AM
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We need to tell them we are not removing anything else......it is history and that can not be changed.......it is now 2019 and the good ole USA has the most freedom than any other country in the world.......if you don’t like it here then leave and give another country a try......then they might realize how good they had it here........but if you leave you can not come back .....this would solve a lot of our problems ......Go Tigers!!!!!
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Legend [19603]
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The Honors College existed just fine until 1981 when the
Apr 22, 2019, 8:14 AM
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Calhoun name was tacked on.
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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LOL.***
Apr 22, 2019, 2:09 PM
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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110%er [5977]
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At what point are the liberals going to stop trying to hold
Apr 21, 2019, 3:06 PM
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People who have been dead for over 200 years to today’s social standards? The institution of slavery was an accepted practice hundreds of years before Columbus sailed from Spain to the West Indies in 1492. Slavery was on the African continent over a thousand years before the first white settlers set foot in Jamestown. William Ellison a free black man and plantation owner in Statesburg, SC owned over sixty black slaves. Many African tribal leaders profited greatly by selling captured rival tribe members to European slave merchants. I say all of this not to justify the institution of slavery but only to point out that it was an accepted practice throughout the world not just in America and those in America who participated in this institution should not be held to today’s societal standards. What the left is trying to do by removing these individuals from history and condemning them is irresponsible and also dangerous for ffuture generations. Hopefully brave men and women of integrity will stand up to this assault and will prevent this injustice from occurring.
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CU Guru [1955]
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Re: At what point are the liberals going to stop trying to hold
Apr 22, 2019, 3:24 AM
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Removing history is one of the surest ways of repeating "bad history."
There's always been the idea that slavery was solely the invention of the South and solely perpetuated by the South. Were not Northern elites quite happy to buy the South's cheap raw materials to enrich their industries & themselves? Wasn't most of Europe glad to buy those same cheap goods - so much that France & others were just about to BACK the South in the C-War?
And if Northern elites believed so intensely about the injustices of slavery, why did so many pay the $300 to hire mercenaries to fight in their places? That sounds like their anti-slavery passion was a bit half-hearted.
Racism and religious bigotry have existed all across this country from day one. I've lived in the North, South, Midwest & West and I've never NOT seen it, so no ONE region can claim exclusivity or shoulder the lone responsibility for it.
Ask Major League BB about its history; ask Hollywood; ask former Pullman Porter's who were all called "George" from coast to coast; ask what our segregation policies were in the military as late as WWII.
As for slavery, it goes back thousands of years - as far back as recorded history. Ask those who grew up under Hitler, Stalin or Mao if they were not ALL enslaved by those despots. Ask the billion+ Chinese today or the North Koreans if they're free as birds.
If we go erasing history, then we are CERTAIN to learn nothing from it - the bad stuff in particular.
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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Changing the name of a building
Apr 22, 2019, 2:12 PM
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doesn't erase history, especially if this building gained it's name 100 or so years after this person died.
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: At what point are the liberals going to stop trying to hold
Apr 22, 2019, 2:22 PM
[ in reply to At what point are the liberals going to stop trying to hold ] |
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It wasn't accepted practice everywhere in the world. Many countries found it barbaric and horrific. It was accepted in barbaric and horrific countries.
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110%er [5510]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 3:11 PM
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It's been said that MLK was a sexist, Gandhi was a child molester, JFK was a womanizer, FDR was a racist, etc.....
These were all great men, but far from perfect.
In all honesty, nobody who's ever lived that is perfect or would pass the "snow-white litmus test" that some people pretend to call for.
These calls are 100% politically motivated (most people know it).
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CU Medallion [60681]
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One man lived a "snow-white" life.
Apr 21, 2019, 4:44 PM
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He was hung on a cross for everyone else's wrongs; died there; was buried; and, was resurrected from the dead.
Hallelujah! What a Savior!
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Freshman [8]
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Re: One man lived a "snow-white" life.
Apr 21, 2019, 11:10 PM
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Amen to that one and only
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All-In [48078]
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110%er [5428]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 6:49 PM
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Not even close what a moronic post
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 7:03 PM
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Actually it was. Sorry your ignorant about history. The numbers aren't as high in deaths, but it is almost atrocious overall. You're ignorant. 1.8 million Africans died alone just on the ships to the US and the islands. That's before they even arrived to be britalized, murdered, raped, and having their kids and other family taken from them to never see them again. Yeah it's up there with the Holocaust sadly.
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 6:16 AM
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I think your comparison is way off. 6M Jews being murdered in cold blood is not comparable to any other evil in recorded history. Slavery was/is wrong, and there were terrible things that went on, but to compare the two is extreme.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 6:43 AM
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Not really. Half of my family is Jewish. I am very familar with the Holocaust. I had distant family members die in it. I realize I would have been killed had I been alive at the time in Europe. Slavery and Jim Crowe in the US and slavery in the islands compares to an extent. 1.8 million Africans dying just getting to the US and islands alone. That's horrific. Less death, but somewhat comparable. It just didn't end when slavery was abolished either. It went on for decades. We have a horrific history in that regard. It just wants to be sugercoated by some and watered down.
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110%er [6092]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 7:33 AM
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Do you understand that slavery was not unique to the United States and in fact that many Africans had slaves themselves? Slavery while abhorrent, existed in biblical times. Whites and other ethnicities have been held and used as slaves. Please do not paint the US as the one and only in the slavery business.
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Legend [19603]
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Killing Jews wasn't unique to the Nazis, either***
Apr 22, 2019, 7:35 AM
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110%er [5461]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 9:22 AM
[ in reply to Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll ] |
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A shallow well is the first to go dry. I grieve for any of your ancestors unjustly killed. Where is the cry for all of the souls that were murdered in the name of progress?
Mao 45 million
Stalin 25 million
Hitler 11 million
On the slavery issue, maybe you should do some research on the history of the Atlantic slave trade. The most prolific traders of humans were the Portuguese and the Africans. People like you blame this country for the evils of slavery and everything wrong that has or ever will be done in the history of the world.
You are a slave to your burning hatred for this country and progressiveism. The United States of America has done more than any other country on the face of the earth to preserve freedom and justice on this earth.
You are indeed a shallow well!
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110%er [5428]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 24, 2019, 11:58 AM
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I noticed he didn't reply LOL I bet he didn't know that some of the largest slave owners in the US were BLACKS. what a moron
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Orange Blooded [3042]
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No way to justify slavery in this day and age but...
Apr 24, 2019, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll ] |
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...your comparison is, indeed, flawed. The Holocaust happened in less than a decade, the slavery figures are over several centuries.
One also has to know that those in the Holocaust were, once they were taken were destined to be killed or worked to death! Period! Also, it was done by one country guided by one man. Slavery was a worldwide practice and a multitude of countries were "into" it over thousands of years.
Also, the victims were captured by their own, close-by enemies (generally their own race) and, had they not had some value as slaves, they would have more than likely been killed.
Message was edited by: TigJam®
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110%er [9174]
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Forced jalapeño enemas will fix that.
Apr 21, 2019, 3:20 PM
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-Tesla
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All-TigerNet [10857]
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I can understand the anti-Tillman sentiment...apparently he
Apr 21, 2019, 4:11 PM
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was a pretty despicable person. But to try to remove great statesmen from history, just because they owned slaves, is ridiculous!
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Rock Defender [52]
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What else do you expect?
Apr 21, 2019, 5:04 PM
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110%er [6825]
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Re: What else do you expect?
Apr 22, 2019, 11:04 AM
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* maybe, since he is younger, I would expect him to be tenured.
Assistant Professor: non-tenured, often tenure tracked Associate Professor: May or may not be tenured (see below) Professor (and Distinguished): Almost always tenured "Other" titles are almost always non-tenured but may be tenured at a different institution.
Associate Professors come in two flavors, recently tenured "young" faculty, or non-tenured "older" faculty new to academia. Normally the "Associate" title will be given to someone new to the faculty list but distinguished in the field or other endeavors. For example, if someone was a major player in their field (Real Estate), got their PhD on the side, and then joined academia, then they would be given the title "Associate" but would still need to go through the tenure review process. Otherwise, any Assistant professors earning tenure get an automatic promotion to Associate with tenure.
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Orange Blooded [4335]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 5:08 PM
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If they don’t like it, get off his property and attend elsewhere.
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All-In [27366]
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110%er [6735]
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Well he got his name and photo in the paper. Guess he....
Apr 21, 2019, 5:45 PM
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feels important now. I agree, why isn't he focused on today's problems?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 6:04 PM
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Who cares?
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110%er [5428]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 6:52 PM
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I do
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 11:41 PM
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I am apathetic on the issue. It's just a name that's no longer important. If it were something like changing the name of the university it would a matter.
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Orange Blooded [2619]
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Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 8:09 AM
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Changing the name of a College within the University is one step from changing the name of the Univeristy. Calhoun may be 2nd in importance to the development of Clemson to Clemson himself.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 10:35 AM
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Calhoun name changing would hardly be noticed in the big picture. Clemson is a brand. It's different. It's more than just a name.
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110%er [5267]
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Re: Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 10:53 AM
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You do realize Clemson is built on Calhoun's old plantation land and his house still stands on campus, right? And that Thomas Green CLEMSON married his daughter and is who founded the college??
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 2:19 PM
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You do realize that is irrelevant to what I posted? The only name that matters at Clemson is the name Clemson. That is more than just a name, it's our brand.
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110%er [5267]
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Re: Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 2:52 PM
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It's very relevant considering it is his family that Clemson married into to even start the University...lol. Without a Calhoun, who was part of the house hold of that slavery plantation, there would be no Clemson University...unless you think Anna Calhoun would have willed Fort Hill to some stranger by the name of Thomas Clemson.
https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/
"Fort Hill History
Fort Hill was the home of John C. Calhoun, South Carolina’s pre-eminent 19th century statesman, from 1825 until his death in 1850. The antebellum plantation home, office and kitchen are furnished mostly with family artifacts.
It was through a succession of Calhoun-Clemson women that Fort Hill came into Thomas Green Clemson’s possession. In 1888, Clemson bequeathed the Fort Hill plantation and cash to the state of South Carolina for the establishment of a scientific and agricultural college. He willed that Fort Hill “shall always be open for the inspection of visitors.”
^ But wait, Fort Hill, which CLEMSON himself willed shall always be open, is who's house?? which is the land of the plantation the slaves were actually on?? See where this could go?? It's completely absurd.
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110%er [5267]
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Re: Only one step removed...
Apr 22, 2019, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Only one step removed... ] |
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Then we could get to this part of the history: https://www.clemson.edu/about/history/properties/fort-hill/african-americans.html
"Other documents record the lives of slaves who were more inclined to conform to the status quo. One such account is about a girl named Susan Clemson, who took care of Thomas and Anna Clemson’s children when the family lived at Fort Hill for a short time in the 1840s. Susan often slept in a room adjacent to the Clemsons’ room, and she later moved with the Clemsons to their home in Edgefield County, also known as Canebrake. After the war, she married Billy Richardson and moved near Saluda, S.C.
Letters and other documents show that the Clemsons took at least one slave with them to Belgium when Thomas was a diplomat from 1844 to 1851. It was recorded that the male slave Basel attracted much attention in that country because of his skin color.
Beginning in 1848, the Clemsons also had a small number of slaves at their home in Maryland — including Andy, the son of Floride Calhoun’s cook, Nelly. Before moving back to South Carolina in December 1864, Floride Clemson wrote in her diary that Andy would not be returning with them as “he was free with all Maryland negroes.”
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Legend [16329]
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Read that the town of Clemson used to be named "CALHOUN"
Apr 22, 2019, 1:36 PM
[ in reply to Only one step removed... ] |
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The City renamed itself after the University, because it was causing too much confusion.
If the University changed its name, I guess the town would have to change again, too.
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110%er [5121]
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They changed the name of the Honors College in 1981.
Apr 22, 2019, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to Only one step removed... ] |
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Didn’t seem to make much difference then.
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110%er [5267]
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Re: They changed the name of the Honors College in 1981.
Apr 22, 2019, 2:20 PM
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It doesn't matter that it was or if it was...Clemson University SITS on the land of Calhoun's plantation. They could change the name of the Honors college back, but it won't erase Calhoun from being a part of the history. What do they intend to call it, a University that sits on the land of The artist Formerly known as *blank*??
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 8:50 PM
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Can we just change all the streets in every city that was changed to be MLK Boulevard back to their original name and stop this nonsense? No more MLK crap. That was the dumbest thing on the planet. Every city had to figure out what happened to 6th street, or whichever street changed. Every time I moved to a new city, I would think that I missed my street as the numbered streets disappeared for MLK. Sheesh.
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Hall of Famer [22127]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 21, 2019, 10:21 PM
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We don't have to look far for slavery. We are all political slaves. We are taxed to support programs many of us do not approve and there is no way for us to escape. When we must adhere to programs that violate our religious or by other beliefs, this is a form of slavery.
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All-TigerNet [10315]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 7:12 AM
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We don't have to look far for slavery. We are all political slaves. We are taxed to support programs many of us do not approve and there is no way for us to escape. When we must adhere to programs that violate our religious or by other beliefs, this is a form of slavery.
Dang Joe, I wrote a paper on that exact subject many, many years ago in high school and got a B+ on grammar and F on content. No one wants to hear the truth.
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Rock Defender [52]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 7:41 AM
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^^^ Sounds like you had one of those 'liberal' teachers. We all must contend with those with their heads up their butts.
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Oculus Spirit [82769]
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110%er [5121]
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110%er [7736]
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Re: Never ends...strip Calhoun's name from Clemson's Honors Coll
Apr 22, 2019, 8:44 AM
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Should rename it “Pitchfork Ben Tillman Honors College”
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110%er [5347]
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Pizzed off irony on these name change protests
Apr 22, 2019, 11:13 AM
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The student who led the outcry against Tillman Hall isn't even American...she's from India and got a free ride to Clemson because of her being a minority. She attended high school with my kid and was about 100 places behind them in class rank, but how much money came our way?!?! My kid is also in Calhoun Honors College and despite all these crazy reports, a huge majority of others in CHC do not agree with the name change protests and honestly could care less. More liberal propaganda on the news.
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Legend [16329]
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Will we forever have to refer to Fort Hill as John C Mansion
Apr 22, 2019, 1:33 PM
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...or Anna Clemson mansion?
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110%er [5121]
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Personally I believe that if the current students and
Apr 22, 2019, 1:39 PM
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Administration want to change the names of buildings and colleges then they should do it. The honors college wasn’t always named after Calhoun. Tillman Hall wasn’t always named after pitchfork Ben. Etc. Times change. You can’t change the past but if the current students think changing some names will help in the future then I’m fine with that.
It was a long time ago (and different) when I was a student. It’s not up to me what they call things. Leave it up to the students.
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Legend [16329]
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If they had let me make decisions for the University as a
Apr 22, 2019, 1:51 PM
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student, the football season would be about 50% longer, classes would all be on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, and between the hours of 8AM and 3PM, and EDGARS would have been open 24/7 with live music every night.
I wouldn't have cared a bit about what buildings were called; I was too busy trying to learn their current names and find them on campus.
I agree with what you say to a point; students should have a voice, but so should alumni. And there are a LOT more alumni than students. Maybe they are conversations worth having, where would it stop?
I live in Charleston; we would have to change half of the street names and landmarks, potentially even the name of the city itself, if we eradicated any name that had any degree of negative connotation associated with it.
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