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TNET: Bracket Watch: Margin of error thin but Clemson firmly on bubble
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TNET: Bracket Watch: Margin of error thin but Clemson firmly on bubble


Feb 18, 2019, 12:11 PM

 
Bracket Watch: Margin of error thin but Clemson firmly on bubble

A pair of one-point road losses last week have Brad Brownell’s Tigers in a precarious position for NCAA Tournament hopes. CBS Sports bracketologist Jerry Palm h Read Update »


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Re: TNET: Bracket Watch: Margin of error thin but Clemson firmly on bubble


Feb 18, 2019, 12:33 PM

Yeah can we get enough wins with how up and down this team is though?

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Re: TNET: Bracket Watch: Margin of error thin but Clemson firmly on bubble


Feb 18, 2019, 12:54 PM

good ole- get them to click on it sports blather.

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Stop it.


Feb 18, 2019, 1:04 PM

Just stop.

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Re:lulZ - and what if they do make it?


Feb 18, 2019, 1:13 PM

another 1 game and out scenario? CBB gets a bonus for making it that far? Rinse and repeat?

lululz

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You must have Brownell confused with Purnell


Feb 18, 2019, 2:24 PM

who never won an NCAA Tournament game, at Clemson or anywhere else. He was 0-3 at Clemson despite being the higher seed each time.

Even Rick Barnes only won 2 NCAA Tournament games at Clemson, during our Sweet 16 season in '96-'97. The other two years, we lost in the first round despite being favored both of those times.

In contrast, Brad Brownell has never been one and done in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson. So this "another 1 game and out scenario" you speak of certainly doesn't apply to a Brownell-led Clemson team.

Try harder with your trolling next time, okay?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: You must have Brownell confused with Purnell


Feb 18, 2019, 3:24 PM

"In contrast, Brad Brownell has never been one and done in the NCAA Tournament at Clemson. So this "another 1 game and out scenario" you speak of certainly doesn't apply to a Brownell-led Clemson team."

That's somewhat misleading as we lost in the Round of 64 in the first of Brad's two NCAA Tournament appearances. Personally, I still think that the 2011 season was a disappointment in that we only made the tournament after having to win the play-in game, considering we'd comfortably made the NCAA Tournament the previous 3 seasons.

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Not misleading at all. We won our round one game in 2011.


Feb 18, 2019, 3:54 PM

And we made the Sweet 16 last year.

That is a 3-2 record for Brad at Clemson in NCAA Tournament games.

Oliver was 0-3 and Rick Barnes was 2-3.


Message was edited by: Judge Keller®


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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Not misleading at all. We won our round one game in 2011.


Feb 19, 2019, 10:15 AM

It makes no sense to reward a coach in a comparison of NCAA Tournament successes for winning the play-in game when the other coaches also made it to the Round of 64. We were basically lucky that the field expanded from 66 to 68 that very season, or else we probably would have even been left out of the field. You also have to consider that we likely would have made the NCAA Tournament in 2007 had the field been as large as it is for Brad given that we were a #1 seed in the NIT that year.

Even counting the play-in game and expanded field Brad has a 3-2 record, not a 3-1 record as you posted.

Rick Barnes made the Sweet 16 once, and the Round of 64 twice in 4 seasons as a coach.

Brad Brownell made the Sweet 16 once, and the Round of 64 once in 8 seasons as a coach.

Oliver Purnell made the Round of 64 three times in 7 seasons as a coach.

The major difference between Brad's tenure and Oliver's tenure is how they started though. Brad took over a team that had been to 3 straight NCAA Tournaments. Purnell took over a team that missed both the NCAA Tournament and the NIT the 4 previous seasons.

Oliver showed constant progress in his time here. Year 1 we went 10-18. Year 2 we made the NIT 1st Round. Year 3 we made the NIT 2nd Round. Year 4 we made the NIT Final. Years 5-7 we made the NCAA Tournament. Even though we didn't make it out of the 1st round, there was more than enough evidence that we were a consistently good program from those last 4 years.

Brownell has shown little to no progress. Year 1 we made the NCAA Tournament with Oliver's players. Years 2 and 3 we didn't make the postseason. Year 4 we made the NIT Semifinals. Years 5 and 6 we didn't make the postseason. Year 7 we made the NIT 1st Round. Year 8 we made the Sweet 16.

The main problem with this is that the most recent run has been spurred by basically hitting the jackpot in the transfer market, but that isn't a way to build a consistent winner, and we haven't been able to replicate in the last few years. It's year 9 and we start 1 non-transfer.

Brad isn't going to get fired no matter what happens this season, but he is going to have to recruit high school recruits at a much, much higher level than he has been if we're ever going to have a consistent program here. Al-Amir Dawes is a start and the highest rated recruit since 2011, but Oliver was bringing in players higher ranked higher than him basically every season.

I don't expect next season to be a success. I'm still hopeful that this year will result in an NCAA Tournament appearance, but, more importantly, I'm interested in seeing how recruiting fares. If there's still no improvement there, I just don't see the point in keeping Brad around because I don't see the path to becoming a consistently good program.

Don't get me wrong, I think Brad is a good basketball coach who could succeed at both schools that recruit themselves (the blue blloods) or the mid-majors, where no one really has talent and it's development, tactics, and fundamentals that win the leagues. I just think Clemson would fare better with a stronger recruiter.

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Thanks, I fixed my math error.


Feb 19, 2019, 12:49 PM

Still, Brad's 3-2 record (or even 2-2 if you refuse to count his First Round win in 2011, which is ridiculous IMO) is better than Barnes's 2-3 record or Purnell's 0-3 record.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Thanks, I fixed my math error.


Feb 19, 2019, 3:02 PM

So you think making the Round of 64 by winning the play-in game is somehow more impressive than making the Round of 64 without the play-in game?

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Re: Not misleading at all. We won our round one game in 2011.


Feb 19, 2019, 11:07 AM [ in reply to Not misleading at all. We won our round one game in 2011. ]

Maff is hard. If CBB made two tournaments and hasn’t won a Natty then ipso facto Iditarod vous Le vous he’s lost two tournament games, not one.

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Thanks for correcting my maffs.


Feb 19, 2019, 12:48 PM

Still, 3-2 is better than 0-3 for Purnell or 2-3 for Barnes.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re:lulZ - and what if they do make it?


Feb 19, 2019, 10:31 AM [ in reply to Re:lulZ - and what if they do make it? ]

Won’t happen... senior laden team that makes freshmen mistakes. They will find a way to lose... BB is not the answer as coach. Is there an answer to Clemson BB? After all these years seems unlikely. We need a Dabo for BB. Now that’s a nice thought

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Again, the answer isn't finding a Dabo.


Feb 19, 2019, 1:10 PM

The only way a "basketball Dabo" would possibly be successful is if Clemson decided to provide many of the advantages the football program has, including:

-A facility improvement plan which gave our coach the best facilities in the nation, and updates those facilities as needed (i.e., not waiting 10-15 years to address them again)
-An aggressive budget which allowed our coach to hire the top assistant coaches available
-Additional support staff for recruiting, social media, training, nutrition, etc.
-Fans who show up consistently, cheer, etc.

None of these things are a guarantee of success, because unlike football, our basketball history is poor and our conference is quite challenging. It is still worth trying if we want to give our coach the best chance of success, whether that be Brad or someone else.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Yep - Ready for the run ..,,


Feb 18, 2019, 4:12 PM

.... Let’s do it Tigers !!

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Hey ... one of the best 68 teams in the country ...


Feb 19, 2019, 11:34 AM

not too shabby.

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oh, Pleeeeeeeesaaaaaaaa !


Feb 19, 2019, 12:13 PM

Make no mistake, we have to win out. See my previous post. It would not hurt also to win at least TWO games in the ACCT. THIS, can be our finest hour. Let us march on and PROVE to ESPN that we are worthy, and be THAT Cinderella Story that we all loved as a child.

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