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Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.
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Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 12:26 AM

I mean...”Get Trump.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/us/politics/mueller-report-subpoena-house.html


Some interesting comments...

“They have told us that they will provide the information pretty much when they have a subpoena,” the chairman, Representative Elijah E. Cummings of Maryland, told reporters. “And we’ll get them a subpoena.”


How? How would you get a subpoena? To support what investigation?


“President Trump is the first president in nearly a half century to break precedent and refuse to voluntarily release his tax returns,” said Representative Dan Kildee, Democrat of Michigan and a member of the Ways and Means Committee. “The president is the only person who can sign bills into law, and the public deserves to know whether the president’s personal financial interests affect his public decision making.”


He’s the only person that can sign bills THAT THE LEGISLATION CREATES. Has Mr. Kildee provided his tax returns? By that matter, why not just set up a website where Americans can go and review the last seven years of tax returns of anyone running-for or currently-in the House or Senate? THEY are the ones that create 400 page laws with titles like the “This Will Make All Your Problems Go Away Act” riddled with random lines about spending $6 million on an Eliptical Bike plant in Illinois. Shouldn’t we understand their financial motivations?

And the first part of this sums it up:

“Weaponizing our nation’s tax code by targeting political foes sets a dangerous precedent and weakens Americans’ privacy rights,” Mr. Brady said in a letter to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin.

Democrats seem to think the IRS is a weapon to use against their political foes. No one on the planet can honestly believe Mr. Neal when he says he is doing this out of concern for the IRS’s audit policy of the POTUS. Just keep setting those precedents, guys.

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null


but what if his tax returns prove that he is in fact


Apr 4, 2019, 1:28 AM

the inventor of the comfort wipe, for me that is a bridge too far.

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I'm OK with that as long as he uses


Apr 4, 2019, 10:24 AM

flushable wipes.

Put a baby wipe on it and I'm right there witcha

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Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 7:32 AM

I would tell them to pound sand. It is not a required act and is political bread and circuses for the masses. Always has been since 1st done 30 years ago.

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog/candidates-tax-returns/

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Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 8:26 AM

Remember when Republicans had to force Obama to release his taxes? Or when Democrats had to force W? Oh wait, for the last 30 years Presidents have been releasing their returns to the public without incident.

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Right, and everyone had the right to not vote for him


Apr 4, 2019, 8:41 AM

based on his decision not to do that completely voluntary thing.

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null


Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 8:48 AM [ in reply to Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern. ]

Well since you think private info should be made available to all why do you not go grab your return and post it online? No redactions and all account numbers must remain open to public .

When you can point me to a LAW that requires this then we can talk, till then you are a legless man attempting to stand on stumps. What part of voluntary eludes you ? So the Mueller report dashed your dreams and now you guys gotta move on to anything else to poke at in hopes of something? Good grief , this is getting silly.

I never voted for Trump and will not next time unless the DEMS nominate a leftist loon. Much like the birther stuff you guys on the left are grasping at mist.

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Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 10:22 AM

I'm not running for the highest public office in the land, so I doubt anyone cares what is on my returns.

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Re: Remember Democrats, you were elected to govern.


Apr 4, 2019, 4:03 PM

Not the point, if you are so for a voluntary release then you should pony up and do the same.Trump met the requirements already on his release but a full release is voluntary. Just because you want it does not mean doodly squat now does it? Nope , he already complied with the legal requirements and that is all that matters.

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Ok, so they issue a subpoena which, if you don't honor it


Apr 4, 2019, 8:33 AM

you've broken the law. Honor it, and you've broken the law.

Only a legislative body with a 10% approval rating could pull something like this off.

#termlimits

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I can’t wait until he gets the tax returns...you know...so he


Apr 4, 2019, 8:40 AM

can review their aaudit of the POTUS.

I will be shocked...SHOCKED I tell you...when something embarrassing to the President mysteriously “leaks”, or he finds something that “his conscience” compelled him to make public. What a circus.

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null


Dems in congress have a gun and they will use it.


Apr 4, 2019, 8:45 AM [ in reply to Ok, so they issue a subpoena which, if you don't honor it ]



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“That’s not even a real gun”


Apr 4, 2019, 9:09 AM

“Yes it is, it’s a Magnum PI”

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'It could penetrate the skin and cause a serious infection'


Apr 5, 2019, 7:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7uPGR1RfNw

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Re: Ok, so they issue a subpoena which, if you don't honor it


Apr 4, 2019, 9:29 AM [ in reply to Ok, so they issue a subpoena which, if you don't honor it ]

Term limits will only result in more politicians like AOC.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


I beg to differ. People enter Congress for the long haul


Apr 4, 2019, 10:05 AM

They only care about reelection once they're there. That gets them seniority, and all the other perks that come with making Congress a career.

Limit terms, and the will at least have one term as a lame duck where they may actually think about what's best for America instead of what will win them votes next election. The two are not always the same.

As it stands, we will NEVER see a spending reduction (overall). Term limits would make that at least a possibility.

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Most of the 2020 dem candidates are all up on the very...


Apr 5, 2019, 7:46 AM [ in reply to Re: Ok, so they issue a subpoena which, if you don't honor it ]

policies which attacks the radical leftist to AOC. So that ship has sailed.

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I don't care about the tax returns...


Apr 4, 2019, 9:11 AM

At least, not anymore. He's been elected, has been in office over 2 years, and it doesn't really matter anymore.

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Re: I don't care about the tax returns...


Apr 4, 2019, 9:16 AM

I guess it's kind of like Obama's birth certificate.

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it’s Obama’s birth certificate on steroids.


Apr 4, 2019, 9:20 AM

Most republicans ignored or denounced the birther issue, and they didn’t sic a special prosecutor on the case for two plus years and then double down when the certificate was produced.

Any pub who was heavy into the birther thing (including Trump) has no grounds to whine about collusion.

Any dem who hated birther-gate and is now hot on the collusion/tax trail is a world class disingenuous hypocrite.

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Re: it’s Obama’s birth certificate on steroids.


Apr 4, 2019, 9:27 AM

Yup, the birther issue was not an issue with me or anyone I know. Those that whined over it were deluded fools on the right. The left is equally as bad now after the Mueller report. Now it is taxes that are not even required to be released. One could not toss a dead cat in any direction on these boards and not hit hit a hyopcritical lib.

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Did Obama obstruct the investigations into his birth cert?***


Apr 4, 2019, 2:50 PM [ in reply to it’s Obama’s birth certificate on steroids. ]



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How do you obstruct something that didn't happen?***


Apr 4, 2019, 3:40 PM



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Because you obstruct the investigation...


Apr 4, 2019, 3:50 PM

to find out if something happened. Seem pretty obvious, right?

Assuming the Mueller report is ever released publicly and not heavily redacted, it'll be interesting to see what Mueller actually found in regards to the collusion and obstruction aspects of his investigation. Clearly, he didn't find enough to conclude there was any criminal action by a sitting President in regards to collusion(strict definition and focus). But based on what we know already that's been reported on, there were certainly political or intelligent issues with what Trump/Trump associates were doing. And on the obstruction charges, it seems likely that there is a good bit of evidence pointing to some obstruction but the questions of whether charging a sitting President had to weigh heavily there, as well.

But comparing all of that to the birther conspiracy is pretty ridiculous, imo. Birtherism is more accurately comparable to pizzagate than the Mueller investigation.

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Key words "seems likely".


Apr 4, 2019, 4:12 PM

That's a giant ball of arbitrary.

It seemed likely that Bill Clinton obstructed an investigation by meeting with Loretta Lynch but he's still running around free, enjoying $350k speaker fees and a lifetime open bar pass.

The dude's been investigated for two years. If anyone in the administration so much as had an unpaid parking ticket from college, they were hauled off, many in the dark of night by an FBI swat team equivalent.

I respect Barr based on what I know of him. I suspect he doesn't particularly care for Donald Trump, and certainly isn't the kind of guy to come in and play the patsy. He's a law and order guy, and he's offered to release the report (as I understand it), this month. I understand the need for redactions....for chrissake it's the leader of the free world and the deepest dive imaginable on him for two years----there's national security matters at hand.

You're a smart guy.....untold millions of intelligent people have been made to look silly already by the fan fiction they created for two years with their speculations on Russian collusion---why not just assume Barr's telling the truth, wait for the report, and hope like hell he was being honest when it does come out?

Besides, this investigation leaks like mad---if there's dirt that was found, you know darn well you will know it eventually.

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"fan fiction" concerning Mueller's investigation?


Apr 4, 2019, 4:53 PM

Pretty similar to the language "witch hunt" the President used to try and dismiss the seriousness of the investigation. Be careful you aren't falling victim to the thing you are charging others with.

My main issue with what you said is trying to compare the Mueller investigation with the Birther conspiracy (again, similar to pizzagate). They are on two very different levels in terms of validity and rationale that inspired them.

In terms of the Mueller report and Trump, it's the non-exoneration statement that is what I think many are interested in and why the report needs to be released as intact as possible. I think the public release will be redacted and national security concerns will be addressed there, but the question about what congress is allowed to see of the Mueller report is a different one.

You ask why not assume Barr's telling the truth, wait for the report and hope he's being honest is exactly what I think should happen.

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It just seems really, really unusual to me that


Apr 4, 2019, 5:15 PM

you think that the birther debacle was silly nonsense (it was), but the presumption that the President of the United States being a Russian puppet/asset (absent any actual damning evidence no less) was a reasonable stance for one to make.

Do you know just how much cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias, and illogical conclusions must be made to sit back and think "yeah, I could totally see that---in fact, it seems likely"?

It's like we're on different planets.

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Who is presuming here?


Apr 4, 2019, 4:48 PM

Have I stated if I think Trump was a "russian puppet/asset" of Russia or even presumed it? I think there is a lot of evidence of a relationship between Trump and Russia (which is impossible to deny) that fed into some ideas about how far that relationship went. Then you have this,

"The hacking and the revelation that a member of the Trump campaign (Papadopoulos)may have had inside information about it were driving factors that led the F.B.I. to open an investigation in July 2016 into Russia’s attempts to disrupt the election and whether any of President Trump’s associates conspired."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

It should warrant any fair-minded and rationale person to wonder just how much Trump and Russia were connected. I mean, I can't see how that wouldn't be an important thing to investigate. It would have to take a tremendous amount of cognitive dissonance, confirmation bias and illogical conclusions to just ignore that. Thankfully, our intelligence agencies were better than that and they investigated. And more so, it's good our President didn't collude with Russia.

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Yes.***


Apr 4, 2019, 10:01 AM [ in reply to Re: I don't care about the tax returns... ]



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Yep, just another way to torture a sitting POTUS with...


Apr 5, 2019, 7:49 AM [ in reply to Re: I don't care about the tax returns... ]

something which is devoid of substance.

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Indeed precedents are being set in many areas.


Apr 4, 2019, 12:35 PM

Or just normal DC politics.

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Really, they prob were elected bc ppl don't like Trump***


Apr 4, 2019, 1:37 PM



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Are you at all curious why Trump wouldn't release his taxes?***


Apr 4, 2019, 2:51 PM



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Re: Are you at all curious why Trump wouldn't release his taxes?***


Apr 4, 2019, 4:00 PM

No, that is between him and the IRS. If they had reason to investigate it would be done right? He is being auduted so there you go, the IRS is doing their job right?

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We don't know if he's being audited


Apr 4, 2019, 4:06 PM

which is part of the problem.

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Re: We don't know if he's being audited


Apr 4, 2019, 4:18 PM

Maybe he is and maybe he is not. Maybe as his lawyers claim he is always under audit due to the complex filings of his business dealings.Who cares at this point, he disclosed what is required by LAW. What you want is not so therefore it is a wish list item . The whole idea of releasing tax returns that will surely be large and very complex to a nation of people that will not understand an iota of it seems ludicrous to me.That includes most elected officials to boot.

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With all the questions surrounding Trump


Apr 4, 2019, 4:39 PM

it seems ludicrous to me for anyone willing to just take his word for it. More transparency in politics is usually a good thing.

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I'm curious how


Apr 4, 2019, 4:17 PM [ in reply to Are you at all curious why Trump wouldn't release his taxes?*** ]

this guy I know seems to never work and yet has a $600k house and a new car every two years, but my curiosity doesn't amount to a legal obligation for him to tell me.

If you really want to know what piques my curiosity....more than a billionaire who decided to become a politician....are the finances of Senators and Congressmen who enter public service (with a $174k salary) with low 6 figure net worths and after a few terms have 8 figure net worths. That would be some tax records I'd enjoy.

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Re: I'm curious how


Apr 4, 2019, 4:19 PM

Maxine? Maxine ? Are you gonna release?

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Legal obligation is fine to hide behind


Apr 4, 2019, 4:41 PM [ in reply to I'm curious how ]

and you're right, I don't believe there's a legal reason Trump HAS to release his tax returns, but it's weird to me to be curious about senators and congressmen tax returns and not the President of the United States' returns.

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Re: Legal obligation is fine to hide behind


Apr 3, 2023, 8:33 AM

I am not but if they want to go there then make it LAW for all elected officials to release thir returns. That is my point. All the way down to State and City levels, talk about rooting out a nest of vipers.

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In terms of power, the President holds supreme authority


Apr 4, 2019, 4:57 PM

which is why his position seems more important to have transparency, but I'm not against what you're talking about either.

With all the questionable circumstances surrounding Trump and his financial dealings/connections over the many decades, and then him not wanting to follow tradition of releasing his tax returns (remember Nixon released his even when they were under audit) it's just begging to have questions asked, is it not?

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Never said I wasn't curious about Trump....


Apr 4, 2019, 4:54 PM [ in reply to Legal obligation is fine to hide behind ]

but his tax returns don't intrigue me any more than Bill Gates', Warren Buffett's, or Larry Ellison's.....I'm sure they're semi-fascinating but there's no sea change in his status that makes me say "wait a minute". He was a billionaire, he still is....cool.

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Any of those men president of the united states?


Apr 4, 2019, 4:58 PM

who have had questions about their past financial relationships with the mob/foreign countries?

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I have questions about whether Vince Foster was murdered.


Apr 4, 2019, 5:21 PM

The difference is I can see that my "questions" are firmly embedded in and colored by my bias against an individual(s) and that my "questions" and $2.50 still won't buy a starbucks, much less be grounds for the release of a documents that aren't legally required to be released.

It's scary that you don't even realize what dangerous precedents you and others that think this way are setting for how future leaders are treated. When you've turned over every stone and come up with nothing, it's obsessive and neurotic for the response to be to look for more stones.

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those precedents were set before Trump


Apr 4, 2019, 6:56 PM

Nixon, Clinton, Obama, Clinton, Trump all were treated pretty similar to Trump in many regards.

Somehow you think Trump is being treated differently (or that you think Trump doesn't deserve the treatment he's received which is equally telling) from past presidents.

(The questions about Trump's finances and his ties looooong predate him being president, btw.)

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Nope, it's not the same.


Apr 4, 2019, 9:21 PM

None of them were put under investigation by a sitting opposition party's administration while they were candidates, much less assigned a special council while the ink on their new presidential stationary was still wet.

This wasn't about an individual, it was about an election result.

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If that's your belief, so be it.


Apr 4, 2019, 9:30 PM

Different worlds

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None of them run billion dollar empires.


Apr 5, 2019, 8:01 AM [ in reply to Legal obligation is fine to hide behind ]

The risk of publishing their taxes was minimum. Trump, on the other hand, would be giving business competitors a look into his business. Y'all are thinking like poor people.

I left an outline overview of company finances on my desk in plain view one night. I locked my city hall office but city employees had keys. My boss from the home office met me in the lobby while doing a job tour and we headed to my office together to talk in private.

When he saw the report laying on the desk he told me if his boss had been with us and saw it he would fire both of us. The information on that outline gave competitors the inside look at our company. I was thinking like one of my station would think. Ignorant of life.

You're not getting Trump's tax filings. Never. The dems in congress know it but they are fighting an uphill battle for 2020. It's near impossible to defeat a sitting POTUS with the economy doing this well. Dem's strategy is death by a thousand cuts because they know they aren't getting a smoking gun on this guy.

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