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"...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"
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"...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 12:00 PM

https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/09/04/clemson-dabo-swinney-religion-culture
">


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This attempt to tant the program, will actually be helpful.***


Sep 4, 2019, 12:05 PM



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Re: This attempt to tant the program, will actually be helpful.***


Sep 4, 2019, 12:23 PM

whatever happened to Freedom of Religion?

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Religious freedom gets punked by freedom of the press


Sep 4, 2019, 12:59 PM

every single day. Journalistic integrity is a thing of the past because every Tom and #### has a computer. You'll die a slow death waiting on it come back. That ship has sailed.

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So you're saying there were factual errors in the piece?


Sep 4, 2019, 4:17 PM

Where? Where did the author show a lack of "integrity"?

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First of all, writing a piece to try and defame, demerit, or


Sep 5, 2019, 12:52 PM

smear someone is lack of integrity in my book. This article is a clear attempt to inflame a certain segment of the population, the same hateful jerks who think taking a knee during the national anthem is worthy of praise. Dabo Swinney and Clemson are model program and university right now, and there are those who would bring it all down if given the platform for hateful fodder.

Furthermore, how do you know the article is factual in every aspect? Did you write it? I doubt it. Here's a thought for you, GFY.

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Re: First of all, writing a piece to try and defame, demerit, or


Sep 5, 2019, 7:34 PM

"hateful"

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Re: First of all, writing a piece to try and defame, demerit, or


Sep 5, 2019, 8:36 PM [ in reply to First of all, writing a piece to try and defame, demerit, or ]

I am actually one of those "hateful jerks" who think taking a knee is worthy of praise. I have family members (including my father who was a devoutly religious man) who fought and died for those rights. And I don't equate bowing to a flag as honorable or patriotic. But that's me. I also don't have any problem with Dabo following and talking about his faith. As long as he isn't discriminating against people who practice other religions or doesn't follow his beliefs. If his hiring of an assistant coach is based solely on their religion or a scholarship is given because of the recruits religion, THEN I have a problem with it.
So go ahead and have prayer meetings, get together and go to church, even have a baptism on the field. But, don't require any player to attend or listen or read the bible, etc.

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You don't actually know what "freedom of religion" means,


Sep 4, 2019, 4:16 PM [ in reply to This attempt to tant the program, will actually be helpful.*** ]

do you?

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Re: You don't actually know what "freedom of religion" means,


Sep 4, 2019, 7:14 PM

We know what the parasitic club of "freedom from religion" experts mean by it. They favor amorality, and indirectly, they spread the destructive seeds of nihilism.

Perhaps you didn't realize that there is powerful pushback on the meaning of "freedom of religion" from none other than the justices of the Supreme Court. I don't care who your experts are, if the Supreme Court disagrees with your experts, their opinion should not be considered balanced, factual, conclusive or binding.

Instead of asking "Does Dabo go to far?" Thomas Jefferson (the patron saint of professing atheists and first to articulate the wall of separation between Church and State but who was NOT atheist, and who actively supported from the state level many religious activities including seminaries at public colleges, because he believed the most important aspect of our self-governing society is its morality even more than its education) might well be asking, "Does Dabo go far enough?"

The reason kids love Dabo's faith is not because he's the only coach who has it or practices it; it's because he is one of the only coaches who believes in it enough to live it.

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I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.***


Sep 4, 2019, 7:47 PM



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Re: I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.***


Sep 4, 2019, 10:09 PM

Of course you are correct.

But morality is always the child of religion.

Religion has been known to spawn some b**tards, but without religion a society's morality cannot survive. Morality is a condition attached to a society's values; with a religious basis for its values, morality can be redefined repeatedly until it is utterly meaningless.

But we will still say that we have it, because we must. Without a pretense of morality, no one can claim a moral imperative.

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Social morality evolves the same as religious morality.


Sep 4, 2019, 10:41 PM

Incest, polygamy, murder and slavery have all been condoned by religious morality.

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Re: Social morality evolves the same as religious morality.


Sep 5, 2019, 6:56 PM

And the only reason you know those things are wrong is due to other religions saying so.

Social morality's evolution follows the lead of religious morality. When religion dies, morality does, too.

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Re: Social morality evolves the same as religious morality.


Sep 5, 2019, 7:44 PM

Or perhaps evolves into something better, more ethical, more fair, more logical. People can be ethical and moral without fearing magical beings.

But I will certainly concede that rules imposed by magical beings are easier to grasp for a certain subset of the population. Magic-based morality makes it easier to control this subset. And by this subset, of course, I refer only to children and Santa Claus.

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Bless your heart


Sep 5, 2019, 9:44 PM



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I disagree. Changes in social mores usually influences religions to evolve, not vice versa.***


Sep 5, 2019, 8:36 PM [ in reply to Re: Social morality evolves the same as religious morality. ]



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Re: I disagree. Changes in social mores usually influences religions to evolve, not vice versa.***


Sep 6, 2019, 12:51 AM

Some people call it the swing of the pendulum. Others call it a cycle. Your perspective is entirely anecdotal and is based on your preconception.

You can say the same about my perspective, except mine is based on a first cause. The only way morality can have any effect on religion is if the religion existed first and created the condition known as Morality.

Where it goes from there becomes the cycle or pendulum swing.

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Re: I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.***


Sep 5, 2019, 6:58 PM [ in reply to Re: I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.*** ]

Sorry, "without a religious basis...."

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I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.***


Sep 4, 2019, 7:47 PM [ in reply to Re: You don't actually know what "freedom of religion" means, ]



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Re: I support Dabo, but religion does not equal morality.***


Sep 5, 2019, 7:04 PM

And my point was that Thomas Jefferson believed that religion was the creator of morality.

It is relatively immaterial whether you and I agree, since we are not going to be cited as experts anytime soon.

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You and the FFRF are some really sad individuals


Sep 4, 2019, 7:43 PM [ in reply to You don't actually know what "freedom of religion" means, ]



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Re: You and the FFRF are some really sad individuals


Sep 4, 2019, 8:23 PM

What if Dabo followed Muhammad instead of Jesus? Would you be cool with Dabo encouraging players to follow Islam? Just curious.

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Re: You and the FFRF are some really sad individuals


Sep 4, 2019, 8:50 PM

TinCup14® said:

What if Dabo followed Muhammad instead of Jesus? Would you be cool with Dabo encouraging players to follow Islam? Just curious.



No issue in my view as long as he’s transparent about his beliefs.

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Exactly


Sep 4, 2019, 9:34 PM



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Re: You and the FFRF are some really sad individuals


Sep 4, 2019, 10:52 PM [ in reply to Re: You and the FFRF are some really sad individuals ]

If kids went there with that knowledge, sure.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 12:10 PM

Meh....if Pedro Cerrano can pray to Jobu in the locker room Deandre Hopkins should be able to get baptized.



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"Yo bartender, Jobu needs a refill!"***


Sep 4, 2019, 12:14 PM



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I love it when people bring this up


Sep 4, 2019, 12:14 PM

Because it always results in more success for Clemson. What they don't realize is that the kids WANT to be in this environment. If they don't want to be there, then they won't go to Clemson. And most of these kids have plenty of opportunities to play elsewhere where religion is not as open.

Leave our amazing University and Coach alone.

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Snowflake Basher........Out


You're right. But you should also know that should a player


Sep 4, 2019, 4:18 PM

ever make Dabo defend his proselytizing at a state-funded university in a courtroom, he will lose.

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Re: You're right. But you should also know that should a player


Sep 4, 2019, 4:45 PM

Thats why Dabo brings in players that fit our culture. If they don't like it they don't have to go to Clemson. Religion is in no way forced on any of the players. So your argument just like hypothetical players holds no weight.

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Re: You're right. But you should also know that should a player


Sep 4, 2019, 6:17 PM [ in reply to You're right. But you should also know that should a player ]

Its freedom of religion not from. Also its separation of church and state meaning the state cant dictate what religion if any a person wishes. Its call freedom and a constitutional republic. For those on Twitter we are not a democracy either.

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Re: You're right. But you should also know that should a player


Sep 4, 2019, 7:35 PM [ in reply to You're right. But you should also know that should a player ]

I doubt it. There is a big difference between a public high school and a state funded college. This is not a school that has been dictated to them because of where they live. These kids chose to come here knowing the culture and many of them because of it. They are not forced to participate in any Church related activities. The fact that others choose to practice their faith would not be an infringement of their rights but restricting anyone from practicing their faith would be.

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Nothing newsworthy at all


Sep 4, 2019, 12:14 PM

Not a single piece of "news" is contained in this article.

SI is just re-hashing old information hoping for some sort of negative, or outrageous reaction. Lame.

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Re: Nothing newsworthy at all


Sep 4, 2019, 12:18 PM

Exactly my thoughts, they are rehashing old stuff with some updates and putting it out there in this week’s magazine.

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Re: Nothing newsworthy at all


Sep 4, 2019, 12:28 PM

Yep!

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Unfortunately this is what some of the


Sep 4, 2019, 8:12 PM [ in reply to Nothing newsworthy at all ]



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Notice, not 1 player has felt uncomfortable.***


Sep 4, 2019, 12:25 PM



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Clemson is the Chic-Fil-A of College Football.


Sep 4, 2019, 12:27 PM

I guess we'll never get to play Kansas.

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Without reading the article - the religious aspect is one of


Sep 4, 2019, 12:30 PM

the reasons these kids come to Clemson. Even if you're not a Christian - the Christian values are (in general) a great way to live ones life...

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Jesus has made Dabo a rich man--we can agree on that, right?***


Sep 4, 2019, 4:19 PM



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Re: Jesus has made Dabo a rich man--we can agree on that, right?***


Sep 4, 2019, 6:29 PM

You make that sound bad.

The happiness Dabo has in following Jesus, the discipline with which he does it, the joy and love he shares with others because of it, the input he has made in the lives of others has made him very successful, which in turn has made him rich.

But everyone who knows Dabo says he would be a millionaire--without working so hard--if he had not returned to coaching.

Dabo doesn't preach the prosperity gospel, but he does preach the laws of sowing and reaping. That's what made him rich.

If you are one of those modern divas who try to separate Western civilization's prosperity from its Protestant work ethic, you're going to need a sharper knife than just denial. The two are joined at the hip. No one with a lick of sense would dream of separating them. Having said that, i fully expect you to try.

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Do you know Jesus?


Sep 4, 2019, 7:37 PM [ in reply to Jesus has made Dabo a rich man--we can agree on that, right?*** ]

If you don't know Jesus then you don't know what you're talking about.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 12:51 PM

Just a rehash of old info. As I've said here before, I personally don't like the overt profession of faith, but can certainly tolerate it given the current success of the program. Plus, I think Dabo (as evidenced by the K Youngblood situation) continues to be respectful of other views/religions. Really nothing to see here at the moment.

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So winning covers all, huh? You'd feel differently if he


Sep 4, 2019, 4:23 PM

didn't win? That's a strong moral compass you're following there, bud.

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Re: So winning covers all, huh? You'd feel differently if he


Sep 4, 2019, 8:51 PM

I know...I think I’ve got what it takes to be a Trump supporter.

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Dude writing the article looks like he wants to


Sep 4, 2019, 1:23 PM

start a religion.

https://www.si.com/mmqb/people/tim-rohan




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"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Dude writing the article looks like he wants to


Sep 4, 2019, 2:43 PM

Here you go.

https://www.rohantim.com/about

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Re: Dude writing the article looks like he wants to


Sep 4, 2019, 8:36 PM

The writer is a Michigan graduate. He totally validates the ideology you would expect from that background.

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What some people don’t understand is that, for Coach Swinney and many others,


Sep 4, 2019, 2:53 PM

being a Christian is the essence of who he is and cannot be separated from Coach Swinney, the man.

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People understand it.


Sep 4, 2019, 4:22 PM

What they don't understand is why Dabo gets to preach. That's against the law--our country (for all you patriots out there) was founded partly on the principle that the state can't tell me to worship, how to worship, or where to worship. State-paid educators are not legally allowed to preach. Dabo does.

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Re: People understand it.


Sep 4, 2019, 4:49 PM

You do your thing he will do his. It's people like you always trying to stir up ####. Guess your pulse says a lot about what people here think of your opinion.We have to put up with all the offended people on this earth so they can put up with Dabo"preaching" if thats what you want to call it.

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Re: People understand it.


Sep 4, 2019, 5:39 PM

I'm hitting the up button on this a thousand times ^^^^

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Re: "state-paid educators are not legally allowed to preach"


Sep 4, 2019, 7:50 PM [ in reply to People understand it. ]

Like i said, SC justices are allowing pushback.

Under NO circumstances does Separation of Ch/St deny an individual the right and freedom to practice their religion, including the state employee. Your belief would tell Dabo that his personal freedom is trumped by the State's. That is the antithesis of the first amendment. (That means absolute contradiction of its spirit).

When i was HR manager of a Federal office, our lawyers told me i was not allowed to restrict free expression of religion in the workplace, so long as management clearly communicated that ALL religions could be expressed. This ruling had to be made because an out-of-touch lawyer (my boss, who hadn't practiced law in years) complained about a brochure about a Christmas program posted in the break area. Even though she was not an atheist, she was taught that all government employees must behave as though they are.

THAT WAS NEVER THE INTENT OF ANY OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS OR SUPREME COURT JUSTICES AT ANY TIME IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY. THE CONSTITUTION WAS NEVER INTENDED TO FORCE ATHEISM ON INDIVIDUALS by specifically barring the government from preferring other religions.

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Re: People understand it.


Sep 4, 2019, 8:05 PM [ in reply to People understand it. ]

clemson32 said:

--our country (for all you patriots out there) was founded partly on the principle that the state can't tell me to worship, how to worship, or where to worship. State-paid educators are not legally allowed to preach. Dabo does.



Two things: 1) If the state can not tell you when, how, or where to worship, why would it be able to tell Dabo? 2) If it is against the law for state paid educators to preach, how do some public colleges have theology programs?

You would probably even try to tell me that the Constitution requires the "separation of Church and State." If you think that, read the 1st Amendment, then find out where the phrase comes from and the context around it.

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Dabo can preach all he wants to ... just a fact.


Sep 4, 2019, 8:30 PM [ in reply to People understand it. ]

... until someone is able to make a valid case that he forces his views on players and that playing time is determined by adherence to Dabo’s religious doctrine, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with his witnessing his faith.

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Re: People understand it.


Sep 4, 2019, 8:48 PM [ in reply to People understand it. ]

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;”

Why should Dabo be prohibited from exercising his right to freely express his religious convictions? Now if Congress passed a law establishing Buddhism (just as an example) as the official religion to be worshipped in the United States of America, then we have bona-fide constitutional problem.

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Re: People understand it.


Sep 5, 2019, 7:59 PM

I’m not a Christian, neither was Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin among others. I do take their line of thought on the matter that although I cannot reconcile it against my own reason, I defend with honor and my blood if need be, your right to profess and believe as you wish. That would include recruiting a football team of young men who subscribe to the belief system of the coach. Dabo has proven himself to be fair, a respecter of other people’s religious beliefs and he stresses the value systems we find common amongst all religions going back as far as ancient Sumerian writings. That said, the best witness for a particular belief system is best not said with words and rather shown in deeds. Dabo does this in my opinion and he makes a great case for the lifestyle. The way some of you talk down to those who do not share your belief does your faith little to no justice.

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Nice straw man.


Sep 4, 2019, 10:34 PM [ in reply to People understand it. ]

Dabo doesn’t tell anyone they must worship, how they must worship, or where they must worship.

So everything’s cool.

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SI is still around?!


Sep 4, 2019, 3:13 PM

Who knew....

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Re: SI is still around?!


Sep 6, 2019, 1:04 AM

Maybe trying to find its new niche in the market.

Let's hope it isn't looking to become the new journal of social liberalism in sports. ESPN has already claimed that role.

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Re: Forgive Them. They Know Not What They Say


Sep 4, 2019, 3:25 PM

Blasphemy! Burn in hell SI!

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NewSpring, a local Baptist church??? If you don't like


Sep 4, 2019, 3:43 PM

Christianity, you should at least learn something about it before you bash it.

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What are you arguing here? That they're not baptist?


Sep 4, 2019, 4:26 PM

NewSpring Church. NewSpring Church is a Southern Baptist megachurch located in Anderson, South Carolina.

NewSpring tops all Southern Baptist-affiliated churches among the 100 fastest-growing and 100 largest churches in the U.S., according to Outreach magazine lists drawn from LifeWay Research data. NewSpring also ranked as the second fastest-growing and the fourth largest church in the nation among all denominations, Outreach reported in September 2013.

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Re: What are you arguing here? That they're not baptist?


Sep 4, 2019, 4:50 PM

You are the only one arguing so please with all due respect, just S T F U already.

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Re: Newspring


Sep 4, 2019, 7:28 PM [ in reply to What are you arguing here? That they're not baptist? ]

Something tells me you didn't get that info by going there and sitting down with the pastor for lunch.

You know, like Dabo would.

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Re: NewSpring, a local Baptist church??? If you don't like


Sep 4, 2019, 7:44 PM [ in reply to NewSpring, a local Baptist church??? If you don't like ]

It was surprising to me but Newspring is technically a Southern Baptist church.

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Of course everyone has a right to choose their religion


Sep 4, 2019, 3:57 PM

but no one has a right to play football at Clemson.

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One thing we can all agree on is that Dabo and Jesus


Sep 4, 2019, 4:27 PM

have worked out a pretty solid financial arrangement.

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clemson32 — You Atheists’ are usually very unhappy people


Sep 4, 2019, 4:38 PM

Who are always looking for Drama!

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'You atheist,' is a broad brush.


Sep 4, 2019, 7:39 PM

I know a lot of atheist who aren't miserable like 32.

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Re: One thing we can all agree on is that Dabo and Jesus


Sep 4, 2019, 7:25 PM [ in reply to One thing we can all agree on is that Dabo and Jesus ]

And you're complaining about not getting a better spot at the trough??

Do something productive with your life, and you'll get more respect. Because no, right now, you don't deserve it.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 7:17 PM

Also known as The South.

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Dabo should continue to offer players he wants.


Sep 4, 2019, 7:36 PM

That's his job. If he wants to recruit players who are Christian then there's nothing negative about that unless Clemson starts losing. At that point he would be dismissed or promoted and a replacement would be hired.

Clemson has academic standards for prospects to meet. Clemson has a athletic standard the players must meet. If the players qualify and Dabo wants them unless there's some monetary benefit or other violation of the NCAA rules then the deal is between Clemson, the player/parent in situations where the players is underage.

That's the bottom line. Limiting Dabo's, Dabo's coaching staff's and the players' religious preference is not going to happen in this country, not yet anyway.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 7:50 PM

I don’t think Dabo has done anything wrong but I doubt our fans would defend him if he was Muslim and encouraging players to follow that religion.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 8:29 PM

If he were muslim, I'd expect him to encourage his players to follow islam

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 8:35 PM

There would be outrage, although I doubt Clemson would hire someone who was outspoken about their Islamic faith in the first place.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 10:53 PM [ in reply to Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson" ]

We wouldn't have hired a Muslim.

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my guess at dabo's response to people attempting to bring


Sep 4, 2019, 8:00 PM

him down by such thinly veiled means as this is that he'd respond as Paul did in Philippians 1 when he's in prison in Rome "some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of good will... But what does it matter, the important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice."

I think Dabo would look at this attack on him and his motives (and his motivations) as a positive b/c in the end, the funny thing is the attention brought on him and on Him out of this is a positive. Least that's my guess as to what Dabo would say. Go Tigers

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Re: my guess at dabo's response to people attempting to bring


Sep 4, 2019, 8:21 PM

Would you feel the same if he was a follower of Islam?

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Re: my guess at dabo's response to people attempting to bring


Sep 4, 2019, 8:28 PM

I wasn't commenting on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of what he's espousing, simply on how he would likely respond given what he believes

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Re:


Sep 4, 2019, 8:53 PM

Dabo has the right to choose his religion (freedom of religion) and talk about it (freedom of speech). He is not pushing his beliefs on players. Yes they know or learn of his beliefs while they're being recruited.

Just read the article about TL and how he made his decision to be saved and baptized when in FL at a camp and not on campus. The players make their own decisions when it comes to their beliefs and religion just like the rest of us.

All Dabo is doing is what the Bible says a Christian is supposed to do and that's witness for the Lord. He's not forcing anyone to follow his beliefs, he's just telling how he got there. Take it or leave it but don't put the man down.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 4, 2019, 10:49 PM

I am thankful for Dabo. I am proud he demonstrates his Christian faith through his actions. He lives out his faith.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 5, 2019, 7:12 PM

Take it to the Lounge

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 5, 2019, 7:59 PM

Well it's working.... and working well, turns out not every 3,4,5 star hates God or is afraid to be who they are... never heard of any complaints from the players, staff, coaches... Freedom is wonderful thing.

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Re: "...the Fervent Religious Culture at Dabo Swinney's Clemson"


Sep 5, 2019, 9:12 PM

God bless Dabo (a truly good man) and Clemson University (a truly great school). I pray neither gets corrupted by this ever increasing liberal USA population. I fear it's only a matter of time.

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"If a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal."


Coincidence That Clemson's Program Has Taken Off?


Sep 6, 2019, 9:03 AM

I don't think so. My reading this morning -- Psalm 31:3. Be my strong rock, a castle to keep me safe, for you are my crag and my stronghold; for the sake of your Name, lead me and guide me. Amazing.

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I cancelled my SI weeks ago after they kept pumping that...


Sep 6, 2019, 9:06 AM

purple headed witch soccer player

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