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Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?
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Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 9:41 AM

Judge Keller keeps bringing up the lack of financial commitment versus other ACC programs and he may have a valid point, but MODS some fans would like actual figures to compare. Does Coach Brownell get comparable funding? If not what can be done to change the situation? This would make a very interesting article, especially if looking at Brownell’s entire tenure.

Go Tigers!!

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:02 AM

Would be interesting to see the numbers but with several ACC schools being private they don’t have to open their books.

We should also note that comparable funding will not help us climb out of the hole that is Clemson basketball.

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:03 AM

Winning a few N/C's always helps get a BB program better opportunities. Take a look at the results at Duke and UNC, and you will see why their funding is expected to be so high. Take a look at our results, and you will think we may be spending way too much.

If you remember, Dabo was on a shoe-string budget and salary when he took over, and success on and off the field has resulted in huge financial rewards for him and his staff, as well ( and hardly anybody is grumbling about those expenditures, either).

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:09 AM

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/6/11/17441968/ncaa-revenue-expense-statistics-college-basketball-2016-gonzaga-mid-major

Here you go. Of the public schools reporting, CU and BC are at the bottom of the ACC with $6MM. Duke is at the top with $19MM. Coots spend $9MM.

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:20 AM

According to this list, 49 schools outspend Clemson in Basketball, while 280 spend less. So, compared to most schools, Clemson spends quite a bit. But, the big difference to me is that the Tigers are not up against one major competitor- like they are in football against FSPU- they are up against many tremendous basketball programs- UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, FSPU, NCSnake, Virginia, Notre Dame. And the rest are not exactly pushovers. ACC not tremendous in football, but spectacular in basketball.

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What's interesting about that too me is expenditures


Feb 18, 2019, 10:49 AM [ in reply to Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools? ]

vs revenue. We basically have the same expenditures as Tennessee but they make a ton more in revenue. And now Barnes is building that program.

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Would be interesting to see. No real clue but I just


Feb 18, 2019, 10:12 AM

find it hard to believe VA. Tech And FL. State put much more of a priority in their basketball program than we do.

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:13 AM

as far as asst coaches' salary, we are roughly in the middle compared to other public schools in the ACC (as stated above, several schools are private and do not publish salary figures). this year, BB was allowed to hire an 'analyst" type in marty simmons and he also added boogie Mac in a jeff davis "life coach" type role, so it seems from just a salary/personnel position we are trying to be more competitive.

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:20 AM

This is a bit old, but Clemson spent just over 4Million in 2012. I am guessing it might be up 1-2M now, but when BB was hired, we were last in the ACC. Average D1 (including the Big South itty-bitty schools spent on average 2.99M). The only school close to us was BC. A good comparison is that George Mason and University of Richmond spend about the same and VCU spends more on basketball.

Comparitively, Duke spent $15+ million, UNCheat $15+, Louisville 15+ Million, Cuse nearly $14m.


GT, VT, Miami, FSU, Virginia, Wake, etc all spent more (more than 5M+)

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:24 AM

Let this sink in...

We have little basketball history
No natural recruiting area
A rural campus
Football first fan base
Mediocre fan support
Middle of the pack facilities
Bottom of the ACC in spending

CBB has finished...

T–4th NCAA Division I Round of 64
2011–12 Clemson 16–15 8–8 7th
2012–13 Clemson 13–18 5–13 11th
2013–14 Clemson 23–13 10–8 6th NIT Semifinal
2014–15 Clemson 16–15 8–10 T–9th
2015–16 Clemson 17–14 10–8 T–7th
2016–17 Clemson 17–16 6–12 12th NIT First Round
2017–18 Clemson 25–10 11–7 T–3rd

Yet we believe firing the coach will fix all of our problems

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 11:09 AM

Looking back and looking ahead
As far as the eye can see.
Middle of the pack is all we be.

Nevertheless, GooooooTigers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 11:31 AM

There is one other question to ask. Based on ROI with all the things working against us in b-ball, is it worth the mountain of cash required to compete at the highest levels in hoops or should we continue to invest in other sports where the hill is not so steep? Said different, we get much more bang out of $1MM spent on baseball, football or soccer than we would spending the money on basketball. The deal is fans can’t continue to whine after every loss if that is the direction.

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Yeah, that's the rub.


Feb 18, 2019, 1:27 PM

How much is it going to cost to become even marginally better in basketball and is that money really worth investing there vs somewhere else.

It's easy to get on a message board and demand change and better results, but all of that requires money and the CU athletic department doesn't have an unlimited budget. Any additional money going to the basketball program means less money going elsewhere.

Really despite all of our recent success in football, Clemson is still a relatively small regional school and our athletic department revenue absolutely pales in comparison to big schools like Texas and Ohio State. Right now we have to dedicate a very large % of our revenue to staying at the top in football.

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I agree with this except the ACC TV Network


Feb 18, 2019, 2:16 PM

is supposed to bring in more than $10 million per year minimum. Throw another $2M at basketball and let's see what we get for it.

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True. And I'm sure that's something that's on the table


Feb 18, 2019, 3:07 PM

or possibly even already factored in to the recent LJ expansion.

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Re: True. And I'm sure that's something that's on the table


Feb 18, 2019, 3:32 PM

Let’s not confuse coaches salaries with overall program expenditures as both are important. We should not confuse the fans facilities with the player facilities. Mr. joe is correct that we hired Dabo on the cheap but we have spent in excess of $125MM on capital improvements for the players plus millions on staff since he has arrived.

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Re: True. And I'm sure that's something that's on the table


Feb 18, 2019, 3:46 PM

One response to Mr Joe’s comment that perhaps our facilities are not as bad as some think. We do now have decent facilities which are more or less mid pack ACC. The thing is that with all the other issues working against us in basketball (listed above in this thread) facilities are one of the few thing she we can control which could improve our program. Our facilities are mid pack, our spending is at the bottom of the ACC and our results are mid pack ACC so why are so many upset?

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I'll start


Feb 18, 2019, 11:43 AM

Coach K at Duke makes more base salary than Dabo @$8.89M

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Re: I'll start


Feb 18, 2019, 12:39 PM

We are currently in 9th out of 15 teams with a good chance of moving up a place or two despite never catching a break. Outside chance of NCAA but likely a NIT bid this year. Once again CBB is outperforming our investment.

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I'm not saying anything against CBB


Feb 18, 2019, 1:20 PM

Possibly, he needs more money appropriated for assistants. Hopefully, our revenue will increase with the ACCN beginning this year, and the latest CFP championship.

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/clemson/2018/09/07/clemson-football-texas-revenue/1119370002/

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 3:00 PM

Money is not the sole solution to our basketball woes. Remember the clamor before and after Dabo's hiring. "We need to spend money to get a name coach, etc". We found Dabo in the bargain basement and he has earned his current salary. It was Dabo's "drive", character, personality and salesmanship that grew our football program. A coaching hire is a hit and miss situation but if we could find someone with similar attributes as Dabo, we could be on the road to success. The only problem, there are no guarantees even when we find someone who earns a check mark in all the right places.

I doubt there are many name coaches who would come to Clemson even if offered a substantial raise. Our pool of prospective coaches have and probably will continue to come from one of the mid-major schools. And that's no knock on the school or coach. That's where most of today's top coaches came from.

Our basketball facilities are not as bad as some proclaim. I've been to higher rated and successful programs who's facilities are not equal to ours. The latest renovations were a vast improvement. I don't know what type of incentives our coaches have but if the team's success exceeds specific objectives this is probebly one of the better ways to grant raises. It always helps if the head coach and some of the assistant come from and are familar with areas with an abundance of talent.


Message was edited by: Joe21®


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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 3:17 PM

One coach's salary does not equate to the entire expenditure of a program. For example, we spent $1 just in recruiting for the football program. That is about 20% of the entire basketball budget.

Even with bargain "Dabo", we were still spending in the top 1/3 and only went from $61m to $56m. Dabo still had gobs of money around even if he was the "risk". Hiring "Dabo" saved us the entire basketball program's budget.

Now compared that to the $15-$20m+ that Duke spends.

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Re: Tiger BB program expenditures vs. ACC schools?


Feb 18, 2019, 10:10 PM

I have said for the last 4 or 5 years that Clemson was going must invest more money into the basketball program if we are to be more successful.

Once Dabo was given more financial resources more than any other HC for football at Clemson, the wins started to come, the recruiting greatly improved and the NC’s happened. One of the best things we did was to pay the assistant coaches more money and improve the facilities. Dabo is a great recruiter but he had a nice product to sale.

BB needs the same financial commitment from the BOT , administration and the fans or we need to quit complaining about our program or the HC. We need to be spending as much as the other top schools if that is where we want our program to be.

Start taking your complaints to the people who control the $$$$. And if you are not a donor, become one!

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