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110%er [7723]
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We are not as talented as Alabama
Jan 9, 2019, 10:46 AM
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and that is why Monday's win is so terrifying for everyone. How can a team with significantly less recruiting talent absolutely destroy Alabama?
On Paper:
I looked at a comparison based on the 247 Composite Player Rankings from the 2014-2018 classes. I started with 2014, because that is likely the earliest class that could have (and did) contributed players to this year's teams.
Comparing overall rankings during that time, Alabama ON AVERAGE ranks exactly TEN SPOTS HIGHER than Clemson. For comparison, that would almost be the difference between Clemson's 2018 recruiting class (ranked 7th) and South Carolina's 2018 class (ranked 18th).
Another comparison is comparing the average ranking of their players over that time span. On average, Alabama's team is comprised of about the 160th best player in the country. While Little Ole Clemson ranks nearly 100 spots below them at 255th, which would be outside of the Top247 and a low four star player.
So how did we close the gap on the field if the gap is so wide on paper?
1. Player retention - we keep significantly more of our players for 4-5 years than Alabama. These players develop more physically and technically. We also lose less players to attrition and transfers.
2. Coaching retention - this one is obvious. Our staff is one of the most consistent in the country. When you keep the leadership consistent, the players don't have to adjust year after year.
3. Player evaluation and development - nobody is better at turning 3* or unranked prospects into high-end CFB players. Renfrow, Muse, Wallace, Turner, Johnson, Joseph, Simmons, Falci, Cervenka... the list goes on and on.
What does this mean for the future?
Clemson's recruiting is still improving every single year. We might never sign the #1 ranked class, but we have proven that we don't need to. Our 2018 and 2019 classes are filled with elite players from all over the country. 2020 and beyond will be even better. If this team can beat the great Alabama with a significant talent gap, imagine what they will be when that gap narrows even further.
Simply put.... The Best Is Yet To Come.
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Orange Blooded [2531]
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I never get these analyses
Jan 9, 2019, 10:53 AM
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We're basically at the top of recruiting, and the way we do it, fitting them to our needs, and develop the talent (as you stated), and the character of the recruit is super huge. The other thing is all players are not equal, just like a chess board. When I'm playing chess, I'm not losing the queen almost no matter what. For football, the queen is the qb. You have the best qb, all other players on offense "Go up a star" - that qb increases the value of the offensive players, just like a great player/passer in basketball does to his team around him. So it starts there, with the qb, then to the O line and receivers, espec. the receivers. So "average stars" across the board is key. Other thing is depth, with injuries how bad they are - notice bama for some reason did not have the same depth. And let's face it, we got very fortunate on the injury front and came out better than bama, even with the loss of Big Dex.
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All-In [30766]
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Then stop. These recruiting rankings are no better
Jan 9, 2019, 11:07 AM
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Than pre season polls.
In reality , on the field, there isn't a big diff between the #1 class and #20 class..
Too many moving parts to claim recruiting championships.
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CU Guru [1808]
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Re: Then stop. These recruiting rankings are no better
Jan 9, 2019, 11:51 AM
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There is a HUGE difference between a #20 class and a #1 class. How many teams have you seen win a championship with a #20 average ranking in recruiting? I understand your point and it may be valid to say there's little difference between a #1 and #5 class. There will always be 5 stars that don't pan out and 2 stars that become superstars, but look at the teams that consistently bring in to 10 recruiting classes and then look at the final top 10 rankings and see how similar they are.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: I never get these analyses
Jan 9, 2019, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to I never get these analyses ] |
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It's just a comparison. For the most part, the recruiting rankings have done a pretty good job of predicting who the top teams will be and who the top players coming out of college will be. I'm just using these rankings to show that Clemson is not even close to its potential and that's why I full-heartedly agree with Dabo that the best is yet to come.
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All-In [30766]
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Clemson , osu, oklahoma, and bama are making that easy
Jan 9, 2019, 11:24 AM
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To claim.
USC, texas, Michigan, uga, fsu , LSU, uf, ..etc have always recruited well. They haven't done crap.
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110%er [7723]
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And?
Jan 9, 2019, 11:26 AM
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All of those programs haven't done crap due to coaching. That is exactly my point. Our coaches helped overcome a talent gap. And when that gap narrows then the overall effect is that we will be even further beyond anyone.
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All-In [30766]
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And.. those rankings you posted dont mean squat
Jan 9, 2019, 11:44 AM
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Those 10 spots in recruiting rankings DO NOT signify any gap in talent.
CLEMSON is behind any1 in talent, and hasn't been for the better part of the decade.
I'll even go further. There are about 10 teams that are equal from a talent standpoint
Bama
Fsu
Texas
USC
Mich
UGA
Ohio st
Oregon
LSU
Clemson
Florida
once the talent is equal, it comes down to coaching and execution...
I think we could have easily competed for NC in the spiller days with the talent on the roster. just couldn't get the right combination of coaches.
Clemson isn't BEHIND any1 and hasn't been for a long time.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: And.. those rankings you posted dont mean squat
Jan 9, 2019, 12:08 PM
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Just because you do not like the recruiting rankings does not mean that they are not important. College football is first and foremost about player talent. However, poor coaching can absolutely waste any level of talent, which is why FSU, Texas, USC, Mich, etc. have not done anything substantial in years.
I'm not sure why you are so angry about me complimenting our coaches and our program, and then predicting that we are going to get even better in the years to come....
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All-In [30766]
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I don't like or hate them.. I posted they don't mean
Jan 9, 2019, 12:38 PM
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Anything. Just like preseason ap polls. Every just serve to generate trash talk ...and money.
I'm also not 1 bit angry.
They are not important at all. Football existed for decades without recruiting rankings... teams won and loss without recruiting rankings. Recruiting rankings never played a single role in any National Championship poll.
Uga nailed down the #1 recruit last year.. boosted their ranking to #1. In reality that didn't mean a heather dinch. Fields is gone.
Bama is being touted as signing The best recruiting class ever. I just looked at the composite and they have bama #1 based off a 315.13 made up score. Clemson is at five with a 279.94 made up points.
Do you really think 35 made up points will have an impact on the field? Is that really a "gap" in talent? Sure it is a gap in made up indexes and numbers.. but in talent? In results?
If you sign 4 five star QBs, your rank moves up.. but will having four 5star QBs help your team win?
If your coach is getting the players he is after you are doing good. If you are anywhere in the top 20 of any of these polls you are doing good enough to win
#1 - #20... no real difference... especially if one of your guys is Watson, Walker, or sanders.
1 of those guys is worth more than 3 other 5 stars.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: We are not as talented as Alabama
Jan 9, 2019, 10:55 AM
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Whoever evaluates the talent is really the one that deserves the credit. They are able to see things 247 and the other coaches miss on and that’s huge
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All-In [27366]
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We are more talented, and our coaches certainly more
Jan 9, 2019, 10:55 AM
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talented than the people rating high school players.
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CU Medallion [64974]
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Bama will get most of the equivalent "one and done"
Jan 9, 2019, 11:08 AM
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players. They are talented enough to be gone in 3 years to the NFL, and have not the first intention of actually hanging around long enough to graduate from Alabama when they set foot in the door. Since they are often sitting behind similar talent, they only develop so far. Dabo will always recruit the man first, and the talent second. He has gotten fooled occasionally, but didn't take long to correct the mistake. (Can you say Josh Belk, boys and girls? I knew you could.) Unlike most coaches, he plays as many players as have shown they have arrived at the point that they can perform on the field and not be a liability.
When talent gets to a certain level, COACHING is what makes the difference between winning and losing. That is the prevalent comment from Monday night that scores the most points with me, and probably with recruits as well. Bama's entire coaching staff got OUTCOACHED in that game. Finebomb was spinning his ar$e off on his TV show using coaching turnover as the reason Bama lost. Funny how that hadn't hurt them the last several years, even though it happened every year. I guess it suddenly hit like the measles.
Dabo has built a special coaching family, and it won't last forever. Someone will come along and offer a situation that is too lucrative to pass up for Scott, Elliot, Streeter, or even Venables, although I think Brent would be the last of that group to go. So, enjoy the hail out of it while it lasts, it is truly one of a kind.
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Walk-On [102]
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Re: We are not as talented as Alabama
Jan 9, 2019, 11:09 AM
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A few years ago, we were behind TENNESSEE in "recruiting rankings."
Have you SEEN the garbage fire that is currently TN football? With a team of recruits more "highly ranked" than ours??
That should tell you all you need to know about how much these rankings matter long-term.
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All-Conference [402]
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Re: We are not as talented as Alabama
Jan 9, 2019, 11:14 AM
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Statistically, the game was very close, but it wasn't on the scoreboard.
Why? Clemson was mentally tougher than Alabama. When they got us in 3rd and long, we converted. When they dragged us down the field, we stopped them in the red zone. When we had success, that shook Bama. When they had success, we just got ready for the next play.
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110%er [6280]
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Re: We are not as talented as Alabama
Jan 9, 2019, 11:20 AM
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Idc what that says. The only position they have more talent is the OL, TE, and S.
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Orange Blooded [3559]
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It's not all about the star rating of recruits
Jan 9, 2019, 11:47 AM
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Yeah, you must recruit great players, but its all about the environment surrounding the program. Someone said that Alabama was a factory and Clemson was a Family. that was the difference in my opinion.
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Oculus Spirit [93608]
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It makes no sense to say...
Jan 9, 2019, 11:53 AM
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talent gap. What is more applicable is skill and physical development. Those are considered immeasurables or too much to calculate. That's why their immeasurables are addressed as 'he has immeasurables, instead of anyone trying to quantify a value.
Here are some truths. High school players who have 'x,' talent and are developed near to their maximum are ranked higher than those who have 'x,' talent and are not. A player's maximum potential is finite.
Even when a player has tremendous potential, if he lacks work ethic what you sign is what you get when he graduates.
Opinions become vital when evaluating a prospect's immeasurables. Scouting services rank players according to which programs offer the players and seldom know more than a player's present ability due to only seeing film and reading opinion pieces presented as professional works.
Now my opinion on the difference between Bama and Clemson...Dabo keeps players that Nick wouldn't. Nick keeps players that Dabo would toss. Nick tosses players because they don't turn out to develop as he expected and Dabo tosses players because they fail to uphold Clemson standards off the field. Both are hardaszes but in radically different reasons.
If Clemson players do their best and stay out of trouble Dabo keeps them until they graduate because he commits that to the player's parents. Nick doesn't give a chit, he's Alabama's coach.
Dabo recruits players knowing that it's difficult to wrangle redworms. He doesn't miss much. Saban will take anyone he thinks is a good player and disregards most indicators which suggest the kid;s behavior off the field may cause problems. He's Alabama's coach.
Dabo doesn't give a chit about what ESPiN has to say about his recruiting class. ESPiN fears upsetting disney's applecart by not pushing SEC recruits hard.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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