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YOUR BALANCE
CASE CLOSED! DABO is the Greatest Clemson Football Coach EVER hands down......LOOK!
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CASE CLOSED! DABO is the Greatest Clemson Football Coach EVER hands down......LOOK!


Oct 15, 2018, 8:15 PM

Stats don't Lie.......

FRANK HOWARD - 30 Years (165-118-12), 8 Conference Crowns (6 ACC)

DANNY FORD - 11 Years (96-29-4), 5 ACC
Titles & the 1981 National Championship

Dabo Swinney - 10 Years (107-30), 4 ACC Titles, the 2016 National Championship, the 2015 National Runner-up & the 2017 semifinalist

3 great Coaches, but this is where Dabo separates himself..........

Weeks Ranked in the Top 5 in Clemson History....

Swinney - 53
Ford - 16
Bowden - 4
Howard - 1

So Clemson has been Ranked in the Top 5 a total of 74 Weeks in the History of ever. And Dabo has been at the Helm for 53 of them. I know Howard had all kinds of stuff going against him & I know Heisman and Ford were Great but come on... It's not even close!

My Final Top 5
1. Dabo
2. Danny
3. Howard
4. Heisman
5. Pell

Go Tigers, Beat N.C. State & GOD Bless Clemson!!!

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Pell was a cheating POS


Oct 15, 2018, 8:24 PM

It's Dabo ,Fordand Howard rounded out be Bowden and Parker

Without Bowden,No West End Zone(thus no change in administration on spending),No uptick in recruiting, no Dabo,No Tony Elliott and the Scott's.


Though rankings were different back then were different, the whole Modern Era was built off the back of Parker's recruiting class that brought in Fuller. Might still be the best class ever. Higher ups just didn't allow Red to finish what he started,put the POS Snake Oil salesman Pell in charge.

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Re: Pell was a cheating POS


Oct 15, 2018, 9:18 PM

don't forget pell abandoned the team before the '78 gator bowl to go to florida,where he failed miserably,and when danny won the '81 natty,pell tried to take credit,because he recruited some of the players.when he left,he said he was going to florida,because he would have a better chance of winning a natty.so he said sayonara and left CU with recruiting violations.the only good thing he did was clear the way for danny to be HC.

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null


Re: Pell was a cheating POS


Oct 15, 2018, 9:29 PM

Yep. Danny coached his first game in the Gator Bowl against O31O State and that was Hayes last game. Also Pell got Florida on probation too. He cheated there too.

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Re: Pell was a cheating POS


Oct 15, 2018, 9:36 PM

watched that game holding my 2 wk. old daughter.she's still a CU fan.

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null


Stats do lie, all the time


Oct 15, 2018, 9:23 PM

but I have to say that Dabo has earned his right to choose when he leaves Clemson, in my opinion.

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Re: Stats do lie, all the time


Oct 15, 2018, 9:27 PM

mighty white of you uttles. i know dabo can sleep easy tonight now.

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you have mental issues.***


Oct 15, 2018, 9:28 PM



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Re: you have mental issues.***


Oct 15, 2018, 9:31 PM

thanks for the compliment uttles

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Re: you have mental issues.***


Oct 16, 2018, 7:51 AM [ in reply to you have mental issues.*** ]

lol Uttles accusing someone of having mental issues... That is rich.

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March 4th 2016- "Lee won't be here 4 years from today" - Viztiz


Says the WORST POSTER ON HERE for QUITE some time leading


Oct 15, 2018, 9:43 PM [ in reply to Stats do lie, all the time ]

up to Bowden getting fired and for a LONG TIME after CDS was named head coach.

On and on and on and on about how we deserved better, on the job training, not even a coordinator, trying to do everything on the cheap.

Not sure I have ever personally witnessed anyone be so completely negative and then be shown so completely and absolutely wrong in my lifetime.

Some of the worst posts I have ever seen on here - over & over again.

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


He was right about Bowden, though.***


Oct 16, 2018, 7:16 AM



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So you're saying I was right about Bowden? Thanks


Oct 16, 2018, 3:27 PM [ in reply to Says the WORST POSTER ON HERE for QUITE some time leading ]

And I was supportive of Dabo until he based the offense around the screen pass with whatever dumbarse coordinator that was.

Even then I said I liked Dabo and he would do a great job if he took the Bobby Bowden approach and focused on recruiting and hiring the right Coordinators. So tell me again where i was wrong? Thanks.

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Ohhhhh good Lord - revisionist history much there, Tom ???


Oct 17, 2018, 8:02 AM

Hilarious.

Wow ......

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


Here Tom - here’s one where you were dead wrong - as usual


Oct 17, 2018, 8:13 AM [ in reply to So you're saying I was right about Bowden? Thanks ]

Took me about 45 secs to find - just a joke - where was I wrong - lololololooolololol ...... a joke


https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/No-14924515#14924515

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Brad Brownell: Only Larry freaking Shyatt has a WORSE overall winning percentage among Clemson basketball coaches since 1975. Let that sink in. It's Larry Shyatt & then Brad Brownell.


I agree, it's not close.


Oct 15, 2018, 9:30 PM

We will always love Danny, he made us a true football power during the 80s, but Dabo is the complete package. Under Dabo, we have a team that wins big on the field, in the classroom, and in the community. Dabo presents himself well and is a coach I'm so proud to call ours.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


This is an argument with depth you can't comprehend.


Oct 16, 2018, 7:32 AM

You, young man, are being foolish so I'll ask questions, you respond and we'll soon come to an agreement that your comparisons are way off base and founded in short term relativity.

Which of your kids do you love the most? I'm not talking about which one loves you the most and the passion you return to him or her. I'm asking you to tap deep down within your soul and seek out an answer to my question.

Now, I'll ask again. Which of your children do you love the most? Do you measure their value by their accomplishments? What criteria do you apply to make those deliberations?

Please relate your answer to how we older Clemson fans might view Coaches Frank, Danny and Dabo and withdraw your conclusion until you grow up and endure a few more of life's trials and torments.

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I definitely see your point........... But...??????


Oct 17, 2018, 2:11 AM

Dabo is heads & Shoulders ahead of anyone else & on a Funny note I only have one Kid, an almost 5 year old next month who loves Our Clemson Tigers.... But after tonight I may have another one on the way. Let me tell you My Friend, I did some Purdy work this Evening!!!! ??????????????

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I definitely see your point........... But...??????


Oct 17, 2018, 2:32 AM [ in reply to This is an argument with depth you can't comprehend. ]

Dabo is heads & Shoulders ahead of anyone else & on a Funny note I only have one Kid, an almost 5 year old next month who loves Our Clemson Tigers.... But after tonight I may have another one on the way. Let me tell you My Friend, I did some Purdy work this Evening!!!! ??????????????

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I definitely see your point........... But...??????


Oct 17, 2018, 4:34 PM [ in reply to This is an argument with depth you can't comprehend. ]

Dabo is heads & Shoulders ahead of anyone else & on a Funny note I only have one Kid, an almost 5 year old next month who loves Our Clemson Tigers.... But after tonight I may have another one on the way. Let me tell you My Friend, I did some Purdy work this Evening!!!! ??????????????

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Re: CASE CLOSED! DABO is the Greatest Clemson Football Coach EVER hands down......LOOK!


Oct 16, 2018, 8:20 AM

Dabo has a strong case... but I am still leaning Howard.

Before Howard, we were a good "also ran" of a small A&M school. We were "ok" for a small non-relevant school, had a couple of good years as a stepping stone school but not anything close to being a stable program. Howard changed that. You could say that Neely started the turn around, but it was Howard racking up the ACC titles. Howard is still #1 in wins. Still has the most undefeated seasons. A lot of what we do and what we can do comes down to what Howard did. We can debate Howards last 10 years but, still, greatest at this time.

Now, that isn't a case against Dabo. Dabo and Ford's resume is very similar and I would say that Dabo did it in a much more challenging era (Ford never had another NC winning program in conference play). However, when you start comparing a 10 year resume and a 30 year resume, it becomes a lot harder. That is why I say Howard, Swinney, Ford, Heisman (early success can help with getting a culture going), and Bowden

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Re: CASE CLOSED! DABO is the Greatest Clemson Football Coach EVER hands down......LOOK!


Oct 17, 2018, 5:37 PM

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Hatfield was the best.

Just kidding.

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To He!! with Pell, All Aboard with Ford!


Oct 17, 2018, 8:55 AM

I still remember the bumper stickers. No Clemson man (or woman) who was around then will ever forget how pizzed off they were seeing Pell holding up that Florida pennant and grinning his crooked #### off.

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PELL put Clemson on the Map, as wrong as it was..he did


Oct 17, 2018, 4:58 PM

I was around during those times and to use a popular phrase back the "Everyone was doing it, but we got caught"...

Look, what Pell did was wrong, but make no doubt about it, those big wins against teams like Ohio State in the famous Woody Hayes incident put Clemson on the map and we stayed there. Jim Lampley got Coffer and Minor to narc on us and Monte Kiffin played a role in our probation, but that National Title was done in part to what Charley Pell did..

People are far less upset about Charley Pell's cheating than the way he left us for Florida. Had Pell stayed and kept winning, no one would have been upset at probation and would have given him the same cover that Danny got...

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"


Re: PELL put Clemson on the Map, as wrong as it was..he did


Oct 19, 2018, 9:58 AM

No argument from me that Pell got us back to winning football. Much like in the case of Kelly Bryant now, the outrage came from the way he left, not so much that he left. Him holding up that Florida pennant and grinning, while there was still CLEMSON football to be played that season, rightly pissed people off.

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Re: CASE CLOSED! DABO is the Greatest Clemson Football Coach EVER hands down......LOOK!


Oct 17, 2018, 5:35 PM

Yeah, but you don't say that until he retires. It's kind of like putting a living Presidents picture on money.

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Re: CASE CLOSED! Numbers based approach


Oct 18, 2018, 7:49 PM

While I agree that Dabo will finish as the best coach ever and the 5th Clemson coach to be inducted in the Hall of Fame, you only mentioned the categories that made him look the best. For example, Ford had a better win% on the road, and a better record against Top 5 teams, Top 25 teams, and South Carolina. In fact, he is the only coach that has a 0.700+ win% overall, at home, away, in bowls/neutral, and in conference play (even counting the 12-2 record the ACC steals from him in '83-84). Ford is also the only coach with a win% against Top 25 teams and S.Carolina of 0.600+

I also saw the post from FutureDoc's leaning toward Frank Howard. Again, there are no wrong answers here and the Hall of Fame certainly factors in contributions besides wins & win% (look at the records of the inductees), but I can't put him Top 2 all-time for a couple of reasons on top of his marginal win%
1. 9-31-1 against Top 25; 2-16 vs. Top 10; 0-9 vs. Top 5
2. Losing record against S.Carolina (the only coach in our Top 10 with a losing record to the Coots)
3. Losing record on the road, below that of Tigernet favorites like Pell, Hatfield, & Bowden
4. Home win% also at or below Pell, Hatfield, & Bowden
5. 10 losing seasons in 30 years, including 5 in his first 10 years. Dabo has 1, Ford had 0
Howard built Memorial Stadium, gave us Death Valley, got us ranked on a regular basis, and piled up conference titles even with just OK teams (4 of his 8 title teams combined for just a 23-15-1 record)

Heisman didn't have the benefit of rankings to help us judge, but he had only 4 home games, and still built the best win% in school history, both in football and in baseball. You read that right. He also had his highest win% at Clemson than any other school he coached. And the teams before and after him were terrible. Howard inherited Neely's Cotton Bowl winning team, Ford inherited Pell's 11-1 team (but also his probation junk), and despite all the hate, Swinney got the Bowden teams that were over 0.600 win% and 7-2 v. South Carolina and never had a losing season.

That being said, Swinney's best years have burned the brightest and for longer than the others. All with a a style of play more enjoyable to watch in an era of the most scrutiny ever. And he is trending up. If he has another 5 years like the 2013-2017, even without a 2nd CFP title, there won't be any debate.

Thus, my list is
1. Swinney
2. Ford
3. Heisman
4. Howard
5. Josh Cody
6. Jess Neely
7. Hatfield (with Ford's players)
8. Bowden

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Re: CASE CLOSED! Numbers based approach


Oct 19, 2018, 1:14 PM

I like your take. Howard isn't likely our "best" coach. That would be Ford or Dabo.

However "greatest" opens up a lot more room to take off-the-field impact. That makes Dabo and Howard a lot "greater" than Ford (which is hurt with that). Both Ford and Dabo absorbed a "top" nationally recognized program. At the early time of Howard, we really were not legitimate contenders against the SEC programs and Howard's record notes that. Still, he was slowly chipping away at that gap.

If you look at Howard, then you have to consider our peers of the time, including Davidson, Richmond, Citadel, George Washington, Furman, and VMI (along with our future ACC brethren). The old SoCon was not really a football product league. A lot of those programs are FCS or even DivIII. Howard shaped what we would become along with IPTAY evolving along side. Howard kept us in the polls in the 1950s. That was new for Clemson with only Neely's 39 team being the other ranked year before Pell (I would agree that Howards impact in the 60s was minimal at best and he likely coach 10 too long by modern standards). Howard gave us our first trophy in almost 40 some years (since 1903/4 or so).

I agree that if you were to rank coaches on on-field performance, Howard would not rank as well as others as a "career". If you took a 10/12-year span in the late 40/50s then Howard would be good but not dominant as compared to Ford/Dabo. Then again if you compare Howard to Ford full career (Ford at Arky), then Ford's later career kinda resembles Howard to a point. It is hard to be that dominant for more than a decade.

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