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All-Conference [421]
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Coach defenders
Sep 9, 2014, 3:00 PM
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Was it Nick Saban who asked for one more second against Auburn costing them a chance at a National Title? Was it Dabo Swinney who wanted to run a flex option with Billy Napier? Was it Chad Morris who called a terrible second half at UGA? The answer I yes. These are some of the best coaches in the country and they make mistakes. So Dabo defenders remember defending someone because they are the coach and coaches know best can be wrong, and I think they are wrong in not starting Deshaun Watson.
Go Tigers and don't boo our team!
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All-In [30593]
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which naturally...
Sep 9, 2014, 3:01 PM
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makes you right, right?
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All-Conference [421]
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No more right than anyone else
Sep 9, 2014, 3:03 PM
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But I'm not wrong either.
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All-In [30593]
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Re: No more right than anyone else***
Sep 9, 2014, 3:07 PM
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Recruit [99]
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That one gets me everytime***
Sep 9, 2014, 3:09 PM
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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This one gets me***
Sep 9, 2014, 3:29 PM
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All-In [29036]
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Of course they could be wrong
Sep 9, 2014, 3:05 PM
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There is simply no sane way to argue that they are definitely right about a decision like this.
And that's perfectly fine as fodder for discussion.
But, it's not fine to let it lead to rifts (which to be fair I don't think it has, I think that part is primarily overplayed).
But while you are right about coaches making mistakes at times, you also have to grant that they are privy to WAY more information than you or I. As such I see no real reason to call this a mistake before it plays out.
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All-Conference [421]
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Re: Of course they could be wrong
Sep 9, 2014, 3:07 PM
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I just hope it plays out in our favor in 2 weeks.
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All-In [29036]
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Every Clemson fan does
Sep 9, 2014, 3:10 PM
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And I'm not ascribing this view to you, but some folks question the decision based on faulty premises. They repeatedly argue that Dabo is loyal to a fault and that the coaches aren't playing who they think gives them the best chance to win.
I simply don't see that being a logical argument when you consider what they have on the line.
Again, they may well be wrong in their decision, but I don't think it's because they are deciding based on something other than winning.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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it makes it difficult to believe dabo/the coaches.......when
Sep 9, 2014, 3:26 PM
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they say they are going to play the QB that give us the best chance to win.
OK GREAT
then why did you take out the QB that gave us the best chance to win and put in a freshman QB that was "clearly beat out" by the QB that gave us the best chance to win........while the game was still in jeopardy??
PICK THE "#1/clear cut starter/best chance to win" QB and treat him as such.
not only do these decisions make fans question his judgement, but it makes fans question his honesty when speaking to the media about the situation.......................ie "do you (dabo) really truly think stoudt is the better QB?"
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All-In [28802]
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Or, maybe, they just think both should play?
Sep 9, 2014, 3:31 PM
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But they think Stoudt should play more than Watson, at this point? I don't think Stoudt has been taken out because of ineffectiveness yet.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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i understand them wanting both to play.......
Sep 9, 2014, 3:36 PM
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but why don't they wait until the game is in hand and give the "B QB" the game.............never once.......to my recollection did dabo ever put in stoudt during a game when it was still in question. Except when tajh got a little banged up vs GT.........and even then we were up by 17 i think.
dabo's ACTING to the media like this is a NO BRAINER, "how could you think there's a controversy", and gets VERY VERY defensive about it.
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All-In [28802]
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Because it is a no brainer
Sep 9, 2014, 4:00 PM
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Stoudt is the starter, and Watson is a change of pace who he said at the beginning of the year would get meaningful snaps. There's been nothing that's happened that would change that.
I might be remembering wrong, but I think Stoudt actually came into a close game against Boston College in 2011 because of an injury to Boyd. At any rate, I don't think it's valid to say that a guy who's starting this year can't be any good because the coaches didn't think he was good enough to take over for a 3- year starter the year before.
Stoudt also played a good bit last year when games were "in hand:" http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/512052/year/2013/cole-stoudt
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All-In [29036]
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Well, he said this was what was going to happen
Sep 9, 2014, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to i understand them wanting both to play....... ] |
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Coaches said they'd both play but that Stoudt wss the starter.
Why, at this point, would folks be asking for clarification when it's been said and backed up repeatedly.
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All-In [29036]
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That may be a solid point
Sep 9, 2014, 3:51 PM
[ in reply to it makes it difficult to believe dabo/the coaches.......when ] |
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If not for the simple fact they said all along this was the plan.
They said Cole is the man and the starter, and that Watson would come in from time to time to play. This isn't a shock or surprise. It isn't dishonest to say what you are going to do and then do it.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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still question judgement when our #1 QB isn't on the field..
Sep 9, 2014, 3:55 PM
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when the game is in jeopardy.
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All-In [29036]
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I get that
Sep 9, 2014, 3:58 PM
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But they obviously think a combination of the 2 playing is the best arrangement to win. Now, I get you disagree, and that's fine (of course), but you don't have to reach all the way to thinking them lying or disingenuous to reach that point.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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lying may be too harsh a word.......
Sep 9, 2014, 4:12 PM
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misleading may be better, but either way dabo's attitude to the media/fans who, regardless of what dabo thinks, are asking legit questions regarding the QB situation, is kinda ridiculous.
I, along with probably you and many others have seen both games..........to me it's obvious who the better QB is. There are MANY who think stoudt is better..........there are MANY who think watson is better.......there are statistics and visible evidence of on field play that would make anybody question the coaches judgement........at this point
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All-In [29036]
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What has he mislead fans about?
Sep 9, 2014, 4:15 PM
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He said what they were going to do, and he's done it.
And I fail to see the logic in assuming they must be doing something nefarious rather than what they think is best for this team. And I can only assume that they are privy to way way more information than you or I in making that decision.
BTW, in watching the game I certainly see the argument that Watson has looked better. But that is only a drop in the bucket of the overall information they have available.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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by harping on the fact that stoudt is CLEAR CUT #1........
Sep 9, 2014, 4:21 PM
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best chance to win is with him in the game, etc.....
but we see something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT on the field
i know we aren't privy to practices, i get that.........maybe deshaun doesn't hustle or throws too many picks or something b/c what WE see on the field.............quite frankly isn't close jmo.
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All-In [29036]
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IS it harping on it, if he keeps getting asked about it?
Sep 9, 2014, 4:23 PM
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And let me add that it isn't misleading someone to be wrong. You think he's wrong, I get that. But to say he is misleading fans would mean you have to think he knows he's wrong.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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he keeps getting asked b/c he doesn't backup his statement
Sep 9, 2014, 4:27 PM
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imo
all it would take is "deshaun isn't practicing well.....he throws too many ints.............he doesn't throw the deep ball like cole"
something that would explain the discrepancy from the on field performance vs "some hidden reason"......or "stoudt's a senior who works hard"
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All-In [29036]
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He doesn't owe us an explanation
Sep 9, 2014, 4:30 PM
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He may be right or he may be wrong (or more accurately the coaches may be right or wrong), but I see no reason to believe their decision is based on anything but who they think gives them the best chance of winning the games.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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you're right he doesn't owe us one, but.........
Sep 9, 2014, 4:34 PM
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the media/fans won't quit asking until they get one.......so he better get used to it and not get "snippy"
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All-In [28802]
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Has Stoudt played badly so far?
Sep 9, 2014, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to he keeps getting asked b/c he doesn't backup his statement ] |
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What have you seen that makes you think that anything other than play on the field is the reason why Stoudt is the starter? I think he's looked very good in the first half against UGa and against SC St. Nobody looked good in the second half against Georgia.
Watson has played well when he's had his chance, but that doesn't mean he should replace the guy who's already the starter. There just hasn't been any reason for that, as of yet.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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badly? eh.......played well? NO not imo............
Sep 9, 2014, 4:49 PM
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he was "ok" while he was in the game vs UGA.
watson was "good" (his one drive was great, but like you said nobody was good in the 2nd half)
if you watch the replay of the SCstate game pay close attention to BOTH QBs
-stoudt didn't look that good......3 were thrown into the hands of the defender, there were 2-3 overthrows, there were failed 3rd down conversions......one failed 4th i think. had a zone read where he handed the ball off with 2 defenders in the RBs face while the end was wide open to keep and run.
-watson scored TDs on most, if not all of his drives, offense just looked faster/smoother, his footwork and speed got him out of trouble.
all this not including the overall stats that were posted with the completions/attempts and yards per attempt etc............that chart painted a great picture of the two QBs.
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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nope, just keep him in for the next drive........
Sep 9, 2014, 4:16 PM
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I would assume even the "stoudt pumpers" would've like to have seen what woulda/coulda happened if watson stayed in the game after that.
should stoudt have been benched completely?.......NO, but see how much talent can get you in athens
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All-In [29036]
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Who had "pumpers" in the bs lingo pool?
Sep 9, 2014, 4:20 PM
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It is nothing but a dismissive term which does no good in advancing any sane discussion.
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All-TigerNet [10354]
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well then replace it w/ a synonym of preference***
Sep 9, 2014, 4:23 PM
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All-In [28802]
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People are saying that because...
Sep 9, 2014, 3:30 PM
[ in reply to Every Clemson fan does ] |
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arguing against anything but a conspiracy- based straw- man would cause them to actually have to acknowledge that there are good reasons to hold Watson back a little at this point. Better just to pretend like there's some sort of deal that happened between Stoudt's dad and Swinney, or that all Swinney cares about is playing a guy who's "paid his dues."
I guess Garry Peters and Martin Jenkins dues must've been too low when Swinney initially named Tankersley and Alexander the starters at CB. TJ Burrell must've forgotten to pay his dues at some point, because otherwise he'd be the undisputed starter at SAM.
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All-In [28802]
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Now, now, we know it's only the other guys...
Sep 9, 2014, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to Of course they could be wrong ] |
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making assumptions without evidence. It's totally impossible that anybody who loves Clemson and doesn't want us to lose to Wake Forest can't see that we absolutely have to start Deshaun Watson RIGHT NOW. Anybody who disagrees is just blindly following the coaches who only see these guys practice every day, while we're privvy to all the best from sports- writers who've all seem the same games we've seen.
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Oculus Spirit [93604]
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Both QBs have played in both games.
Sep 9, 2014, 3:18 PM
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So ####### what? Dabo starts a senior QB but lets the incoming freshman have meaningful snaps. Why do you give a #### who starts? Is it ####### magic or something?
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Hall of Famer [21815]
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Re: Both QBs have played in both games.***
Sep 9, 2014, 3:31 PM
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Apples and oranges. Criticising strategy and tactics
Sep 9, 2014, 3:22 PM
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is one thing, but thinking one knows the whole story about a young player and his readiness to take over the offense is a whole 'nother story.
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Legend [17233]
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Yep that's the post that convinced me.***
Sep 9, 2014, 4:01 PM
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All-TigerNet [10871]
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If they are some of the best and they DO make mistakes...
Sep 9, 2014, 4:11 PM
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Then why not defend them? Do we not trust they'll sort everything out? We've came pretty far under Dabo's reign...
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Orange Blooded [2455]
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I trust Dabo more than solidorange97***
Sep 9, 2014, 4:12 PM
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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I'm putting my faith in the knowledge of the Tigernet
Sep 9, 2014, 4:18 PM
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arm chair coaches. I have seen the error of my ways. Could you please list the head coach and the 2 coordinators so we will know the super knowledgeable ones. BTW Is it the coach defenders or coach detractors that are doing the booing?
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Orange Blooded [2519]
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But on the other side of those decisions is another coach
Sep 9, 2014, 4:21 PM
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that was right, that time. Plus, most of the time you don't know the how guys will react to a situation until they are put into it.
All these guys make a ton of decisions every day, and when one or two don't pan out, we say they are idiots.
They aren't idiots...until I say they are.
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