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YOUR BALANCE
We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....
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We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 9:51 AM

Our administration steps up and gives our program the support it needs to be successful.

You all do realize Oliver Purnell left a stable program that had been to the NCAA tourney 3 years in a row to go to F-ing DePaul???

Let's say we do fire Brownell as most on here want to do... Let's say that we make a great hire (which is really hard to do). Guess what? If he has success for 5 years, he will be poached by a program that actually cares about basketball. Just like Buzz Williams....

Would you rather have our program, or VT's program right now? The reason for this comparison is the haters seem to always bring VT up as a model program.

- The last 4 years we each have a 44-46 record in conference
- We each have one Sweet 16 appearance
- They have 2 more NCAA appearances, but lost in the first round each time

2024 purple level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Are you high?


Apr 3, 2019, 9:56 AM

OP was successful. Barnes was successful. Both with MUCH LESS support than BB has. They left and we hired bad, end of discussion.

We’ll see how VPI hires. They did something right going to get Buzz.

You are delusional if you think Buzz going home to TAMU equates to us being better off than VPI the last few years.

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Why are you and others so reluctant


Apr 3, 2019, 10:01 AM

to consider why both Barnes and Purnell didn't stay at Clemson? Considering the fact that those are the two coaches you frequently use as examples of successful Clemson basketball coaches, it's interesting that you seem unwilling to examine why we couldn't keep them here.

If we don't consider why those guys left, and learn from it, then what's to keep other successful coaches from leaving?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Why do you and others give Brad a pass for mediocrity


Apr 3, 2019, 10:06 AM

when others succeeded with LESS support? The “keeping a coach” is an issue once you become successful enough to have opportunities to leave. This seems to be a mark Brad can’t get to, that others could. Yet, you continue the narrative about “others leaving”, and your guy can’t win enough to get in that conversation with SIGNIFICANGLY more support than others had.

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You're changing the topic.


Apr 3, 2019, 10:08 AM

I didn't mention Brownell. We are talking about Barnes and Purnell, because they are our examples of coaches like Buzz Williams who had a few years of success and bolted.

Do you not care that we lost the two men you hold up as examples of great basketball coaches at Clemson? They left without even giving Clemson a chance to match the offers they received. That should concern you greatly, and cause you to ask what was so bad that they were both so eager to leave.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


you’ve lost your mind... when did the issue with BB become


Apr 3, 2019, 10:10 AM

him maybe leaving?

Others won, and left. It happens. We hired bad both times. You seem to ignore the fact that they won, and Brad can’t.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


We aren't talking about Brad Brownell right now.


Apr 3, 2019, 10:14 AM

Why do you keep bringing him up?

In discussing our basketball program over the past few weeks, you've mentioned Barnes and Purnell repeatedly. You frequently mention how successful they were. It is logical to assume that you want Clemson to find another coach like those guys who have their level of success.

Given that, it is very appropriate to consider why both left Clemson to go elsewhere after only a few years of success, rather than staying to continue to build something here. Neither coach gave Clemson the chance to match the offer they got from the other school. That's a huge problem.

Do you not think this is something we as Clemson fans should consider when evaluating our basketball program?!?

Here is the list of basketball coaches who meet your standard of success (regular NCAA Tournaments) who have stayed at Clemson over the long term:

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


because he doesn't have an answer for that***


Apr 3, 2019, 1:16 PM [ in reply to You're changing the topic. ]



2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


You do realize that you responded to a post about brownlee


Apr 3, 2019, 1:51 PM [ in reply to You're changing the topic. ]

right??

So who's trying to change the topic?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Wonder why Brad hasn't left?


Apr 3, 2019, 10:06 AM [ in reply to Why are you and others so reluctant ]

Wonder why he didn't leave after last year?

I guess we'll never know "what's to keep other successful coaches fro leaving?"

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Why are you talking about Brownell?


Apr 3, 2019, 10:09 AM

This is a thread about football schools losing their most successful basketball coaches. VT has lost Buzz. We lost both Barnes and Purnell. Unless you are willing to settle for mediocrity, you should be asking yourself why Clemson hasn't kept these two coaches who you and others hold up as examples of basketball success at Clemson.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


We are currently settling for mediocrity... what in the


Apr 3, 2019, 10:11 AM

hell are you talking about?

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Barnes & Purnell leaving Clemson wasn't about BB


Apr 3, 2019, 11:31 AM [ in reply to Why are you talking about Brownell? ]

and more about other distractions that don't need to be re-hashed here.

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I think the speculation that they were both having affairs


Apr 3, 2019, 11:47 AM

and that they both left as a result is pretty lame.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Unicorns & Leprechauns have more credibility


Apr 3, 2019, 12:05 PM

than you do, Mrs. Brownell.

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Link to where those coaches said that they


Apr 3, 2019, 12:14 PM

left Clemson because of affairs?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


YOU are the one claiming "affairs", not me


Apr 3, 2019, 12:37 PM

Maybe I'm talking something completely different?! OR maybe you're just in denial that BB is in way over his head and needs to go back to Emotionless University and learn to run an Offense & Defense and Recruit, how to hire assistants and motivate/teach his players how to play together as a unit and work hard at fundamentals like shooting, passing, blocking out and rebounding.

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What in the shyatt are you talking about now?


Apr 3, 2019, 12:44 PM

Judge Keller was doing the exact opposite of claiming affairs. You were hinting at the two coaches leaving due to non-basketball reasons.

Serious question - have you been doing drugs today?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


KEEP UP THAT TITLE OF "IDIOT POSTER OF THE YEAR"


Apr 3, 2019, 2:17 PM

You'll eventually make it CENTURY...

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Not sure how official those awards are***


Apr 3, 2019, 3:17 PM



2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


It seemed that you were alluding to both coaches


Apr 3, 2019, 12:46 PM [ in reply to YOU are the one claiming "affairs", not me ]

being rumored to have had affairs, which led to them leaving Clemson. That gets posted here once a month at least. I personally don't buy it. If they were having affairs, I doubt that was the main reason they left Clemson.

What are the odds that both coaches had affairs, were caught, and were both told by their wives that they had to take another job?

And it just so happens, purely coincidental, that both took jobs with better pay and better administrative support for basketball?

P.S. I didn't mention Brownell in my post at all. I'm not sure why you did.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Yeah because people always like to announce that kind of thing

1

Apr 3, 2019, 12:56 PM [ in reply to Link to where those coaches said that they ]

when they don’t have to.

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That was a joke.


Apr 3, 2019, 1:00 PM

Because some posters here ask for links for anything they disagree with or want to contest.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Don't talk to a judge like that, he'll hold you in contempt


Apr 3, 2019, 1:25 PM [ in reply to Unicorns & Leprechauns have more credibility ]

"coach"

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


All it takes is one shred of proof and all these experts


Apr 3, 2019, 1:17 PM [ in reply to I think the speculation that they were both having affairs ]

can't seem to provide it

2024 white level member flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Re: Wonder why Brad hasn't left?


Apr 3, 2019, 10:11 AM [ in reply to Wonder why Brad hasn't left? ]

why do dabos guys not leave for other jobs. guess you actually have never been to clemson.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Largely because Dabo has been given a huge budget


Apr 3, 2019, 10:25 AM

to attract and keep the assistants he wants.

Brad - not so much.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Largely because Dabo has been given a huge budget


Apr 3, 2019, 11:40 AM

usually agree with you , judge. and no doubt we had been behind in asst salary. but in the article below (from roughly a year ago), it shows we are paying pretty good coin to our assts now. I for one like our assts, on both a personal and professional basis. my point is when the salary pool was increased, it would have been a good time for Brad to change assts if he thought there was a need to. instead, he chose to increase the current assts. that tells me he has a high confidence level in his staff.

Smith received a new deal from $200,000 to $250,000, while Reynolds Dean got a $40,000 raise from $190,000 to $230,000. Bender got a salary increase of $60,000 from $160,000 to $220,000.

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The budget increase for Brad's assistants in 2017


Apr 3, 2019, 11:46 AM

was the first reasonable increase he had been allowed for his assistants since being hired.

Since then, we have had two 20 win seasons in a row. I think it's a good staff too. My point is that it would've been nice for him to have this more reasonable budget earlier in his tenure.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Except none of Brad's assistants leave


Apr 3, 2019, 12:10 PM [ in reply to Largely because Dabo has been given a huge budget ]

except for head coaching jobs, which most assistants desire. So I'll ask you again, as I have elsewhere, is our current staff sub par? Does no one come after them for this reason?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I think our current staff is good.


Apr 3, 2019, 12:17 PM

They have been in place since 2017, when Brad was finally given an increased budget for assistants and support staff. We have won 20 games in each of the two seasons since then. I think we will need to continue to see how recruiting and on-court performance goes over the next year or two to see how it's working, since as you know the recruiting cycle is 3-4 years now (which is also why it's silly for people to act like the new facility is some magic potion that immediately makes us a top program).

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Until Brad begins landing


Apr 3, 2019, 12:29 PM

impact freshmen, we're going to struggle. Say what you want about Buzz, he did that, at VT no less. He did it from his first recruiting class forward. Brad has yet to do it in 9 years.

Assistants are crucial in recruiting, but the head coach needs to be a deal closer. Maybe this class has impact guys in it. But that's not Brad's track record, and guys rated in the 100-150 range are by and large developmental guys, which is not an indicator that this year's guys are instant impact guys.

This means, barring some impact transfers who can start immediately and basically lead next years team, we're in a minimum 2 year developmental phase. Honest question, is that where we should be at this point?

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

We will have to see how next year goes.


Apr 3, 2019, 12:54 PM

A lot can happen between now and the start of the season, including:

-Signing a quality high school recruit (unlikely, but there are still a few out there who haven't signed)
-Signing a quality transfer
-Notable improvement from our current players
-Better than expected performance from the incoming freshmen (this is Brownell's best class so far)

I would prefer to see how things play out first, rather than declaring in April that things will be horrible in November. No point wringing our hands over a season that may very well be better than you expect.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


In order for us to have success next yesr


Apr 3, 2019, 1:01 PM

we'll need one or a combination of 3 things we've never seen under Brad. 1) impact grad transfers. 2) a huge leap by a current player(s). He's developed guys but it's been incremental. 3)freshmen to make a major impact

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

It COULD happen, but there is absolutely no reason


Apr 3, 2019, 5:00 PM

to think it will. It's a terrible position for a coach 10 years in.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Anything is possible


Apr 3, 2019, 10:38 PM

but it sure isnt likely. History is the best predictor of the future. Getting Rayjon Tucker as a grad transfer would be a good start though

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

No. It's grounds for termination at any school that's


Apr 3, 2019, 4:51 PM [ in reply to Until Brad begins landing ]

serious about basketball.

2024 purple level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


If thats the case, i.e. we have good assistants with good pay


Apr 3, 2019, 6:55 PM [ in reply to I think our current staff is good. ]

then why didnt get to the tournament with 4 experienced seniors?

Your money thing is lame, and shot down again. Its hilarious how you continue to post the same shot-down, lane excuses over and over and over and over..

We need a coach, and assistants, who can WIN. Money, admin, fans.. all that BS... Stop already. Again.

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Re: If thats the case, i.e. we have good assistants with good pay


Apr 3, 2019, 8:21 PM



2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


And again, his assistants won before they were paid.


Apr 3, 2019, 7:02 PM [ in reply to Largely because Dabo has been given a huge budget ]

You keep getting confused with the chicken and egg thing.

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Re: Wonder why Brad hasn't left?


Apr 3, 2019, 12:34 PM [ in reply to Wonder why Brad hasn't left? ]

Somebody needs to be interesting in you in order to leave.

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Oliver Purnell is responsible for half of Brad's success


Apr 3, 2019, 9:57 AM

after 9 years.

Yet OP is credited with killing Brad's program in years 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Did you really just say that Purnell is responsible


Apr 3, 2019, 10:01 AM

for half of Brad's success? Is this a joke?

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Which is more factual...


Apr 3, 2019, 10:08 AM

Brad’s 1st NCAAT was with OP’s guys... or... It’s OPs fault Brad stumbles in years 2-4?

Which statement has more FACTUAL support?

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Both statements are pretty stupid to be evaluating


Apr 3, 2019, 10:11 AM

in year 9 of our current coach's tenure.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Yet you have no problem throwing the


Apr 3, 2019, 10:13 AM

“OP left the cupboard bare” excuse sround.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up


Unless Brad somehow magically learned how to recruit


Apr 3, 2019, 10:17 AM

and coach in year 4 of his tenure, there was a steady decline from Brownell's first year, to his second, and then third year. We lost a lot of talent from Brownell's first team, with little after that. The talent decline those few years was obvious.

I don't blame Purnell for all of that, because it was Brad's program the day he took over and he is ultimately responsible. But you're in denial if you believe that Brad inherited this great situation with tons of talent and all he had to do is come in and stand on the sidelines.

Transitioning from one coach to another is difficult, especially when they run different systems and recruit different skill sets.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Good call. In Year 9 of Brad Brownell's tenure he


Apr 3, 2019, 7:44 PM [ in reply to Both statements are pretty stupid to be evaluating ]

delivered a disappointing season on the hardwod and another bubble team board of incoming freshmen, minus the grad transfer to be.

It's very fair to say that outside of the improvements in facilities and the overall campus the program is worse off today than when he found it - 9 years ago. And he's now $4 Million more expensive to jettison this year than he was at this time last year. Maybe we've offered him TOO much?

I believe there's a coach out there that can win well here AND want to stay because he loves the area and the program. And when that coach arrives, I can promise you he and his staff will be well compensated along the journey. Until then, it'd be great to settle for just winning.

Enjoy.

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Re: Oliver Purnell is responsible for half of Brad's success


Apr 3, 2019, 10:09 AM [ in reply to Oliver Purnell is responsible for half of Brad's success ]

guessing you didnt hear the part where half the team was going to transfer had op been able to keep his zipper zipped and stayed at clemson.

badge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

I think very few believe Brad was ever going


Apr 3, 2019, 10:09 AM

to be fired this year. I also think most understand next year is a major rebuild with a good chance we are bottom tier in the league and retaining Brad becomes very tough.

Would I rather be VT losing a coach but returning a lot of talent, or us with a coach entering his 10th year with a major rebuild and basically no proven talent? Give me the talent and I'll take my chances on a coaching hire. Talent ultimately wins games.

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Drad knows next year will be bad. He won't fire him next


Apr 3, 2019, 10:14 AM

year if he struggles as expected. Why delay a decision that you know you have to make. That would be terrible management.

If he doesn't fire him now, he's not going to fire him after next year. Nope. Brad has at least two more years. That's why you don't get any sense of urgency to win now from him. He knows he's got all the time he wants.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

His buyout this year is over 5 million


Apr 3, 2019, 12:12 PM

I'd say that's a factor

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Re: His buyout this year is over 5 million


Apr 3, 2019, 12:37 PM

I don't believe that is true, especially after his last extension shredded his buyout structure.

Before last years extension his buyout was $825,000 prior to April 30, 2019, and $425,000 prior to April 30, 2020. If you're correct, then we increased his buyout over 5-10x what it was prior to the extension last year.

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That's according to USA Today


Apr 3, 2019, 12:39 PM

the link has been posted here before

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Brad's buyout is $850,000 through April 30th. After that,


Apr 3, 2019, 12:40 PM [ in reply to His buyout this year is over 5 million ]

it's $425,000 through April of next year.

The contract as been amended to significantly shrink these buyout figures. If Brownell were to be terminated at the end of the upcoming season, the buyout would now be $1.7 million and would shrink to $850,000 if he were terminated prior to April 30, 2019 and $425,000 if terminated prior to April 30, 2020.

https://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2017/4/20/15374454/clemson-extends-contract-of-brad-brownell

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

That's for the 2017 extension


Apr 3, 2019, 12:47 PM

it was renegotiated after last year

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Uhhh...no...it's not !!!***


Apr 3, 2019, 12:48 PM [ in reply to His buyout this year is over 5 million ]



2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


In its 2018-19 list of coaches contracts


Apr 3, 2019, 12:53 PM

USA Today has Brad's buyout as of 4/1/19 at
5.185 million

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

If Coach Brownell was going to be fired...


Apr 3, 2019, 10:34 AM

it would have already happened.

The Clemson administration has made it abundantly clear they don't really give a **** about men's basketball.

If the administration doesn't care, and based on their actions and/or inactions they clearly don't, why should we.

Anyone looking for season tickets. You can have mine. I will not be purchasing them again.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-20yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: If Coach Brownell was going to be fired...


Apr 3, 2019, 10:51 AM

Brownell has had back to back 20 win seasons. That will NOT get you fired at Clemson and a LOT of other schools as well. He is ours and I will continue to support him 100%.. if and when he is replaced, I will support the next guy 100%. Clemson men do that. Whitney a$$ mommy boys don’t,

flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Exactly.


Apr 3, 2019, 11:29 AM

I'm still waiting on someone to show me a list of major college basketball coaches who have been fired after consecutive 20-win seasons. I bet it's a very very short list.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Here's a few...


Apr 3, 2019, 12:15 PM

Tubby Smith - Fired by Kentucky after 10 consecutive 20-win seasons, and again by Minnesota after 2 consecutive 20-win seasons (and 5 out of 6 20-win seasons)

Dino Gaudio - Fired by Wake after 2 consecutive 20-win seasons

Rick Barnes - fired from Texas after 2 consecutive 20-win seasons

Steve Alford - His last 2 full seasons he won 31 and 21 games respectively

Scott Cross - Was fired after 3 consecutive 20-win seasons

Those are a few names that came to mind and I had to double check their wins to be sure. I'm sure we can come up with a lot more if someone wanted to research it.

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Thank you.


Apr 3, 2019, 12:18 PM

I don't see any programs with our pedigree and history on that list.

2024 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


So you think Univeristy of Texas-Arlington is a more


Apr 3, 2019, 12:22 PM

prestigious basketball school than Clemson?

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


shocking***


Apr 3, 2019, 12:33 PM



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Yes, and it isn't even close.


Apr 3, 2019, 12:59 PM [ in reply to So you think Univeristy of Texas-Arlington is a more ]

When Rick Barnes took the job there, they had been to 16 NCAA Tournaments, including two Final Four appearance and four Elite Eight appearances. They had won 22 regular season conference championships, and won 2 conference tournaments (both in the mid-90s).

They support basketball much better than Clemson, one example of this being that they paid Rick Barnes substantially more money to be their coach.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: Yes, and it isn't even close.


Apr 3, 2019, 1:01 PM

He was referring to Scott Cross who coached at the University of Texas-Arlington.

Barnes coached at UT-Austin.

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Ha ha, that's great.


Apr 3, 2019, 1:03 PM

I promise I'm not a University of South Carolina alum with those reading skills.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Also, I wouldn't say Minnesota has a better


Apr 3, 2019, 1:14 PM

basketball pedigree than Clemson. At least not at the NCAA Tournament level.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Just so I'm clear


Apr 3, 2019, 1:24 PM

are we referring to the Twin Cities campus, or another one? ;)

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


You apologists need to realize...


Apr 3, 2019, 12:00 PM [ in reply to Re: If Coach Brownell was going to be fired... ]

it not the number of wins, it's the quality of those wins.

Winning twenty games against a bunch of other mediocre opponents won't get you in the NCAA Tournament.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: You apologists need to realize...


Apr 3, 2019, 12:20 PM

They probably don't watch the tournament nor care about it.

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Good luck hiring a good coach


Apr 3, 2019, 12:20 PM [ in reply to You apologists need to realize... ]

after firing a guy who won 20 games each of the last two years, one of which was a Sweet 16 appearance, at a school that has Clemson's poor basketball history and an administration that spends among the least in the ACC on basketball.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Last year was an anomaly...


Apr 3, 2019, 12:47 PM

but I'm glad you're content with just two NCAA Tournament appearances (one of which was with another coaches players) every nine years.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


I've never said that I am content with that.


Apr 3, 2019, 1:01 PM

I've said numerous times that our goal should be to make the NCAA Tournament every year. I'm just smart enough to realize that our basketball issues at Clemson are less about the coach and more about how we view and support basketball.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


While I agree the administration needs to step-up...


Apr 3, 2019, 1:34 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to say that our basketball issues at Clemson are less about the coach and more about how we view and support basketball.

Right now, the coach we have is A BIG PART of the problem. He was a poor hire nine years ago and continuing to retain him is an even worse decision.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Why was he a poor hire?


Apr 3, 2019, 1:50 PM

He had won 20 games in 6 of his 8 years as a head coach, including 3 NCAA Tournament appearances and a conference winning percentage of 71% over those 8 years.

That's a very good mid-major resume.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


He wasn't particularly successful at the mid-major level...


Apr 3, 2019, 2:00 PM

while at Wright State.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


What? He won 20 or more games every year at Wright State


Apr 3, 2019, 2:31 PM

Brad Brownell was a great hire at the time. OP left us in a very bad situation bolting in April without warning. When CBB was hired the basketball media raved about his coaching abilities. You can say whatever you want about his lack of success now, but to say it was not a good hire at the time is revisionist history.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Yes, and that was also in a league with Butler


Apr 3, 2019, 2:34 PM

coached by Brad Stevens.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Again...


Apr 3, 2019, 4:52 PM [ in reply to What? He won 20 or more games every year at Wright State ]

the number of wins is important but the quality of those wins is equally important if not more so.

In four years, he made the NCAAT one time and that was in his first year with another coaches players. Sound familiar?

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Another coaches players who the year before Brad got


Apr 3, 2019, 5:13 PM

there went 13-15 and didn't play a ranked team all year? The very next year in Brad's first year he went 23-10 and made the NCAA tournament with 2 wins over a top 20 team.

So what's your point BigCUFan®?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I'd rather have VPI&SU's basketball program


Apr 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

right now, without question. Move that entire roster to Clemson and put Clemson uniforms on them, let our AD hire a new basketball coach to take over...that's an easy choice.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


if Zion came back crawling to us, snivelling, begging


Apr 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

to be on our team and for shoes that won't blow out on him, would you be willing to let bygones be bygones and even help us find a sick third cousin to justify the transfer?

B/c I wood.

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Is this even a real question?***


Apr 3, 2019, 10:49 AM



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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: I'd rather have VPI&SU's basketball program


Apr 3, 2019, 10:56 AM [ in reply to I'd rather have VPI&SU's basketball program ]

Snowtown is a complete idiot.

You do realize 2 things can be true at the same time right? Yes, you are correct that Brownell had talent in his first year. He did something Purnell couldn't do prior to that and that's win a tourney game. The cupboard was also bare for the next 3 years because we didn't have any upperclassmen! You do agree that we rely on upperclassmen because we can't recruit the 1 and done type people.


Apparently Snowtown has no problem with the current financial support given to the basketball program because "Barnes and Purnell had success". What Snowtown's dumbarse doesn't realize is that he is proving my point. Wow you are stupid.

The reason that we can't keep a good coach is because of the support!!!

Do you think it's a coincidence that the only 2 "successful" coaches in recent memory left after said success? Do you think that it's easy to find a good coach? Do you think that it's because of our AD's incompetence that we haven't hit on a basketball coach 4 out of the last 4 searches? Do you want our program to hire a coach that has success for 5 years and then gets poached and do the whole thing over again? Is that what you are wanting?

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I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you


Apr 3, 2019, 11:05 AM

didn't mean to respond to my post with this drivel?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Exactly.


Apr 3, 2019, 11:37 AM [ in reply to Re: I'd rather have VPI&SU's basketball program ]

These "fans" have their heads buried deep in the sand.

They whine and complain about Brownell and say we should "not settle for mediocrity," yet they have no desire to fund the basketball program better. They don't care that our basketball funding is next to last in the ACC, and whenever this point is brought up, they point to Barnes and Purnell as examples of coaches who they feel are role models for the kind of coach we should have.

However, any discussion of why those two coaches left is met with attempts to change the subject. I don't understand why anyone who claims to want better for our basketball program would be so unwilling to discuss why we have had very few coaches who had success here, and why those who have, left without even giving Clemson a chance to match the other school's offer.

It's painfully obvious that our lack of funding/support for basketball at Clemson is why we haven't kept the Barnes and Purnells of the world, because that impacts their ability to hire the staff they want, get the facilities they need, recruit the players they want, and ultimately, sustain success.

But that's okay, because "we're a football school" and we've won 2 of the last 3 national championships.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Serious question regarding the funding comparisons


Apr 3, 2019, 11:45 AM

I've seen the data, both in the article that was being linked here and have downloaded the data from the website the article used. The funding comparison takes into account all funding, including day-to-day operations and game day expenses.

Have you seen direct comparisons where specific funding categories are isolated out? I'd be more curious to see how our men's basketball recruiting budget compares to other ACC schools. I was only able to find a comparison with a combined figure for all men's sports, which put Clemson at #1 in the ACC, but obviously football makes up a huge part of that.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I assume that the stats we have seen


Apr 3, 2019, 11:48 AM

are an apples-to-apples comparison. What leads you to believe that there is a significant discrepancy in how schools report their basketball expenditures?

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Well for one the article that included a sortable table


Apr 3, 2019, 12:37 PM

by conference points out that some schools massage their numbers.

Two, if you go to the source of the actual data, there is a lot that goes into it. So when looking at total spending, how do the expenses of game day operations compare for LJC to NCSU's PNC arena? I honestly have no clue, which is why I'm wondering if there is a source where that can be backed out of the numbers we can see how much money is spent on recruiting between Clemson and NCSU. Or Clemson and other ACC schools. Also, how do the expense accounts compare between coaches?

I don't think it's a true apples to apples comparison when different schools are going to have different levels of expenses for operations, and different schools use different accounting practices.

Are scholarships included in those expenses for every school? If so, how does that work?

On face, I agree that it's ridiculous that Clemson spends so little on basketball in comparison to other programs, but if we had a categorized list of expenses to compare between schools then we could validate whether that's accurate or not.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


facts would only muddy the waters***


Apr 3, 2019, 12:41 PM



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No, facts would either prove or disprove that our


Apr 3, 2019, 12:46 PM

true basketball spending is far less than ACC schools not named Duke or UNC. Spending categories that actually produce results as opposed to how much it costs to staff concession stands in the arena.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 10:50 AM

I don't know the specifics behind Barnes but I do know from someone that worked in Little John every day at the time that OPP taking another job had nothing to do with Clemson and everything to do with family/personal reasons.

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Barnes has said Clemson


Apr 3, 2019, 11:03 AM

was a really tough place to win, with Duke and UNC right in our backyard as teams we have to recruit against.

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 12:23 PM [ in reply to Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until..... ]

OPP was paid more and he preferred living in Chicago.

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 11:04 AM

Yes,I am aware that Oliver left a stable program that went to 3 straight NCAA Tournaments, where he proceeded to lose all 3 opening round games.I am also aware that he left under a cloud of suspicion for DePaul where in 7 seasons he never even made the NIT.
So much your "brilliant" coach, whose run and gun offense sure scared a lot of opponents.

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 11:06 AM

Not sure what point you are trying to make. LOL

Are you saying Purnell's offense scared people? Now that is laughable. Maybe the defensive press is what you meant? W

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 11:22 AM

No I mean his style of play, both on offense and defense, scared no one.
Purnell, IMO, has always been overrated as a Coach. He was, IMO, how you described our -Ball team, Mediocre at best.

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 1:06 PM

Gotcha. Your sarcasm went over my head. LOL

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until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 12:37 PM

we have a coach who can win more games.

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 12:40 PM

You know why the Clemson Administration doesn't fully support Clemson basketball?

Because Clemson fans don't care about basketball. If they did, it would garner more attention and resources from the administration.

I agree with the administration. Football is the lead dog. Basketball breaks even on a good year. Invest your resources when you can maximize your return.

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Basketball makes money every year


Apr 3, 2019, 12:44 PM

It and football are the only real revenue producers

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Men's basketball makes a profit every year.


Apr 3, 2019, 1:06 PM [ in reply to Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until..... ]

And that profit, along with the profit football makes, goes to fund all of the other sports at Clemson that lose money every year, such as:

-Baseball
-Golf
-Soccer
-Track
-Tennis

Etc.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 1:01 PM

YOU DO KNOW THAT OP WENT TO DEPAUL BECAUSE HE COULD NOT KEEP HIS ZIPPER ZIPPED OR THAT HALF THE TEAM WAS GOING TO TRANSFER HAD OP STAYED.



Clemson mountaineers
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We will be mediocre in B-Ball until..... [2]
Posted: Apr 3, 2019 9:51 AM
Reply

Our administration steps up and gives our program the support it needs to be successful.

You all do realize Oliver Purnell left a stable program that had been to the NCAA tourney 3 years in a row to go to F-ing DePaul???

Let's say we do fire Brownell as most on here want to do... Let's say that we make a great hire (which is really hard to do). Guess what? If he has success for 5 years, he will be poached by a program that actually cares about basketball. Just like Buzz Williams....

Would you rather have our program, or VT's program right now? The reason for this comparison is the haters seem to always bring VT up as a model program.

- The last 4 years we each have a 44-46 record in conference
- We each have one Sweet 16 appearance

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Re: We will be mediocre in B-Ball until.....


Apr 3, 2019, 1:43 PM

You act as if this is common knowledge. Link???

Why did half the team hate OP?

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Maybe all those coaches left because they just don’t like living in Clemson


Apr 3, 2019, 3:15 PM

Therefore get a guy who likes living in Clemson. That Wofford Guy. I was big on T.O. But he got bitter and ran off to Tennessee. Shaka Smart is my dream Coach though, but do not know if he would like living in Clemson. Really should push how things have changed in the last 10 years.

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