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Replies: 66
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110%er [6101]
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Just like that “assault weapons” are banned in New Zealand
Mar 22, 2019, 8:21 PM
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All assault weapons? You know like anything that can be used to kill,main or cause bodily injury like bricks,knives, bats, golf clubs, pens/pencils,vehicles etc.?
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 22, 2019, 9:50 PM
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, but it is a lot harder. It is almost like you are suggesting that guns are not designed as the single most effective way for people to kill people, and that is where your logic here falls apart.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 22, 2019, 10:18 PM
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No Balm, I am simply saying the term assault weapon is silly. ANYTHING one uses to beat,main or kill someone is an assault weapon. I have pondered it and I can say given a choice between 1 to the head or being beaten to death the bullet looks kind of attractive
A gun is no more or less a tool. How one chooses to put that tool to use determines whether the outcome is good,bad or indifferent. Most people fail to grasp a Mini-14 with a wood full stock functions exactly the same as those evil black rifles called AR’s. Accepts high capacity magazines and fires the same ammunition to boot. One just looks scary.
Maybe like Biden a good ole double barrel shotgun will do the trick once both barrels are fired in the air as a warning. Thing is now old Joe has shot his wad so to speak, has an empty gun and is left with an unwieldy club.
Liberals always claim that one should not judge the actions of A few members in a group to condemn the whole group. Why the rush to declare all inanimate guns and owners as driven by blood lust and mayhem? Just curious .
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 22, 2019, 10:22 PM
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right, because those 30 round clips, long scopes, and hair pin triggers that make assault style weapons most effective for causing mass human casualty is not the very reason why mass shooters use them. Surprising these guys are not using more golf clubs.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 22, 2019, 10:44 PM
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So now you chose to blame an inanimate object for the choices an evil person makes in life? Hair pin trigger? I know you have zero practical knowledge in the area of guns so please do not make assumptions on whether anything was done to modify any trigger assembly on any gun used in a criminal event. Just a hint Balm they do not leave the factory with hair triggers.
Bump stocks should have never been legal and was a technicality in skirting the law on owning fully auto weapons. Ban them or move them to FFL 3 requirements. My issue is what determines an assault weapon? All semi auto guns operate the same. THe color or stock material? Magazine capacity? How many is determined to be too many as far as capacity? How magazines are released? One can practice with 5-10 round capacity to effectively take little time to maintain rate of fire, especially if changing out with one left chambered. Will you only be satisfied with single shot rifles,pistols and shotguns?
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 22, 2019, 10:49 PM
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Oh, a long scope is useless in close quarters where the vast majority of these event take place. Long scope, hmmm the more you speak the more comical you sound. So now scopes are evil purveyors of death?
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 23, 2019, 9:01 AM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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if you guys want to keep your assault style weapons, then you are going to need to find a way to keep them out of the wrong hands, something that the right has been incredibly resistant in legislating. Instead they use it as a wedge issue to divide people for votes, and that is morally irresponsible. You will have blood on your hands every time there is a shooting, and that is why you will ultimately lose this debate.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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You take being a self righteous moron to a new level***
Mar 23, 2019, 9:39 AM
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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it would be self righteous of me
Mar 23, 2019, 11:09 AM
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if 70% of the country did not also agree with me on that. And you are talking more about yourself, you spout more unfounded nonsense that flies in the face of established facts than pretty much anyone on this board. Your entire mantra is, "I have no proof, I just know it is true" Between yourself and Manic that thinks the moon landing was fake, it is amazing either one of you functions in your day to day.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Your lack of self awareness is truly amazing
Mar 23, 2019, 11:31 AM
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You honestly are like the real life caricature of a know nothing, overly emotional social justice warrior. “Hair pin trigger” lmao
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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you have said the nearly same thing to
Mar 23, 2019, 11:45 AM
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a half dozen posters over the last few months. You are just broken record spouting illogical precepts and misinformed opinions. Your entire world view has been informed by living in one backwoods corner of this country, that you have never bothered to venture out of, yet you try to appear worldly and woke. You are such a poser.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Have I? I thought it was just you. Anyway, thanks for
Mar 24, 2019, 10:11 AM
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Going above and beyond to prove my point you raging idiot LOL
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Have I? I thought it was just you. Anyway, thanks for
Mar 26, 2019, 12:37 PM
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never a dull moment with you, asshowl.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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No, you are dripping with self-righteousness.
Mar 24, 2019, 12:51 PM
[ in reply to it would be self righteous of me ] |
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You don't care at all about all the children (50x more) who would be saved by lowering the speed limit 10mph across the country. It's not about lives. It's about blame and leverage.
You are subconsciously looking for low-hanging fruit to quench your guilt from living in a country that protects its excessive, unnatural standard of living by stoking pain and suffering around the rest of the world.
You won't fill the hole that way.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: No, you are dripping with self-righteousness.
Mar 25, 2019, 10:48 AM
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You don't care at all about all the children (50x more) who would be saved by lowering the speed limit 10mph across the country. It's not about lives. It's about blame and leverage.
You are subconsciously looking for low-hanging fruit to quench your guilt from living in a country that protects its excessive, unnatural standard of living by stoking pain and suffering around the rest of the world.
You won't fill the hole that way.
Well said!
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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That's not our problem.
There are 150,000,000 law abiding gun owners in this country with over 500,000,000 guns in their possession, the majority of them being semi-automatic firearms.
We average 13,000 deaths per year due to gun crime, and roughly 12,000 of those deaths are due to handguns. Less than 70 people per year are killed with AR-15 style rifles.
That is not indicative of any type of epidemic or national emergency. That is minuscule.
I own quite a few ARs, as do millions of other people. We are not a problem. There are a few rare bad people who use these tools for very evil things. I am not responsible for their actions and it is not my responsibility to give up my rights or subject myself to regulations that will not stop those evil people and will only serve to disarm good people.
Making GOOD PEOPLE helpless DOES NOT make BAD PEOPLE HARMLESS.
I am not responsible for what a bad person do with a firearm. I dont enable them, I dont encourage them. I dont help them.
Their blood is not "on my hands".
Like it or not, we have a natural, human right to possess and carry arms in order to defend our lives. That is a natural human right. It exists BECAUSE bad people are going to do bad things. The fact that mass shooters exist, the fact that homicidal criminals exist, supports and justifies the need for people to own these weapons.
The fact that this evil exists is the reason why people maintain the human right to bear arms. And there is not any compromise in that statement. The right to bear arms is absolute.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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Oh boy, where to begin. You are totally wrong in everything you just said.
There is no such thing as a "30 round clip". You are confused with a "30 round magazine" which is a standard capacity magazine.
Long scopes are only effective for long range precision shooting and hunting, not high volume rapid fire.
"Hair pin trigger". Another correction: AR15 triggers are not "hair pin". Tactical style rifles do not use light weight triggers. Light triggers are only used for long range shooting and competition. Tactical rifles use HEAVY triggers with long pulls, as a light weight trigger is actually detrimental and unsafe in a combat situation. If you are engaging targets in combat, or in close quarters, you want a heavy trigger that requires deliberate trigger pulls. The heavy trigger pull also keeps the weapon "drop safe", heavier triggers are easier to trigger accidentally if they are heavier. Clearly you have never shot an AR, because their triggers are long, heavy, and gritty. Comparable to a double action revolver trigger. A precision long range rifle will have a "hair pin trigger" at about 2 lbs trigger pull. A standard Glock pistol has a 5-6 lb trigger pull (pretty standard for handguns). An AR15 trigger is typically 8-12 lbs trigger pull.
So, you are literally wrong on all accounts.
Also, AR's are not more effective as mass casualties. ARs are being used more because they are EASIER to shoot with minimal experience and the weak ammunition AR15's use is cheap and has very low recoil. There are much more effective firearms that could be used which would kill a lot more people, but they are more expensive, harder to use, and not as easy to control. A semi-auto shotgun such as a Saiga would be significantly more devastating, but its more expensive and its brutal on the shooter. Without experience, you would have a dislocated shoulder relatively quickly. In fact, the ammo the AR15 shoots, the .223 Remington, is considered one of the weakest rifle calibers around. Its not even legal to hunt deer with it in most states as its not powerful enough to effectively kill a 120 lb deer. The only reason the military uses the .223 is due tot he fact that its light and cheap. Soldiers can carry more .223 ammo than other larger calibers. The military is currently working on replacing the .223, because its proven to be too weak for the battlefield.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Walk-On [147]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 24, 2019, 10:33 AM
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Anyone? Why not?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 9:28 AM
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They are legal, so are belt fed machine guns. I know a few people here in the upstate that have some very nice private gun collections that include belt fed machine guns and a WW2 era bazooka.
The problem is, these devices are very expensive and very uncommon. My buddy owns an M240 belt fed machine gun, and it cost him about $70,000 when he bought it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 9:47 AM
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Can we buy stinger missiles? If not, why not?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 10:22 AM
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If you can afford it and if you can find a vendor that will sell to non-military, yes, you can own one.
The only reason no one does is due to the fact that no one can pay the tens of millions of dollars it costs to own one and shoot it even once. The people who do have that money invest it, or they buy a cheaper rocket launcher.
Look up Knob Creek Shooting Ranger in Kentucky. They have monthly exhibition days were collectors who up with arsenals of machine guns, privately owned tanks with fully operational main guns, howitzer field artillery, rocket launchers, all kinds of fully automatic machine guns, etc etc.
They aren't illegal to own, they are just extremely expensive. As such, almost no one owns them except for rich collectors, and they are never used in crimes.
In the last 80 years, the ONLY time fully automatic weapons have been used in crimes has been when Police officers or Federal agents get their fully automatic guns stolen from their possession, and said thieves then use those stolen guns to commit crimes.
Since the 1934 National Firearms Act, no legal, civilian-owned fully automatic weapons or silencers have been used in any crimes. The only full auto guns that have been used in crimes were previously owned by Police or government agents, and were stolen from said agents due to negligence.
Such as this: https://www.guns.com/news/2018/11/30/m4-glock-stolen-from-atf-vehicle-in-oakland
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All-In [48078]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 10:26 AM
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So some Muslim dude can go buy rocket launchers in the US right now if he has the money? I believe you, but seems extreme. I guess that would draw attention to themselves if they bought one though.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 10:41 AM
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Yes, you can. He would have to be pretty rich, but its possible.
Ironically, one of the guys I know in the Upstate with a private machine gun collections is originally from the UAE. He owns a huge mansion down near Anderson. He lives in the US on a permanent resident visa and has quite a nice collection. The other gentleman I know lives near Greenwood. He is from Venezuela and made his money back when Venezuela actually had a petroleum industry. Immigrated to the US and became a citizen and lives on a 200 acre farm with his wife and son. He collects guns as well. He isnt as rich but he has quite a nice collection of full auto guns, he is partial to AK-47s and FN FALs due to being from Venezuela. Despite being a US citizen and having lived a safe, stable life here for a few decades, he still remembers what it was like back in Venezuela and lives in fear of what could happen if we were to lose our guns here in the US. He is a bit on the paranoid side but, he also saw first hand what happens when a dictator controls your country.
He is very genuine, salt-of the earth though. His son and I shoot competitions at the Clinton House near Spartanburg sometimes. They have more money than I do, own nicer guns and shoot more than I can due to the money. But I did finally beat him in a long range shooting match a few months ago. I was able to hit more targets at a mile than he was.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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Anyone trying to make a distinction between the lethality of a semi-automatic AR-15 and a fully automatic M4 is being disingenuous, an idiot or has no actual experience shooting fully automatic weapons.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 1:16 PM
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That depends on the situation.
Full auto is going to be more lethal in a rare situation like the Las Vegas mass shooting with targets packed in the open in a confined area.
Semi auto is going to be more lethal when accuracy is more important, especially single targets at long range.
Handguns are the most lethal in close quarters unless the shooter is specifically trained in CCB.
My Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeant friends laugh at M-4 to AR-15 comparisons.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 1:36 PM
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I’m curious what they laugh about considering it’s essentially the same weapon.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 2:02 PM
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"Essentially the same weapon"
Oh yeah, except for the Full auto sear, full auto selector switch, sear shelf milled into the lower, 3rd pin, hydraulic or captured buffer spring assembly, and (most importantly) a chrome-lined cold hammer forged barrel that is necessary for shooting sustained full auto.
Its not at all the same weapon. About the only things they share in common are the pins and the magazines. The internal parts, both in their function and the materials they are made from, are totally different.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 6:08 PM
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lol you're making a very minor distinction in functionality into being a big deal. The same way you tried to argue a significant difference between a clip and a magazine as if it made a difference to the discussion.
PS anyone that's ever spent any real time with an M4 knows you don't even use the fully automatic function. I'm only carrying a combat load of 210 rounds. That function would never do me any good unless I was about to be overrun.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 6:18 PM
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lol you're making a very minor distinction in functionality into being a big deal. The same way you tried to argue a significant difference between a clip and a magazine as if it made a difference to the discussion.
PS anyone that's ever spent any real time with an M4 knows you don't even use the fully automatic function. I'm only carrying a combat load of 210 rounds. That function would never do me any good unless I was about to be overrun.
Minor distinction? That"s laughable.
There is a huge distinction between single shots per trigger pull and multiple round bursts.
There is a huge distinction in the different parts.
There is a huge distinction in which one you can possess without an expensive special license.
You may as well argue that a dump truck and a pickup truck are the same because they can both haul stuff in the back.
Or... argue that a Rolls Royce and a Yugo are the same due to both being powered by internal combustion engines.
The answer - none of the three passes the smell test.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 7:04 PM
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Your response confirms my argument that you don't have any real experience with fully automatic rifles.
While my M4 can shoot fully automatic, I would never use that function in combat. You could replace my M4 with an AR-15 and I would be able to complete 99.9% of my missions.
There is no reason for an average citizen to have the weapon I carry for combat.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 9:45 AM
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There is no reason for an average citizen to have the weapon I carry for combat.
That statement alone is the EXACT reason why citizens have the right to own these weapons.
But, you're also being a hypocrite. You say "Oh, there is absolutely no reason for a citizen to have something as powerful as a fully automatic weapon", but then in the same paragraph you say "Full auto is totally useless, I only use semi-auto and doing so lets me complete my missions better."
uh, what? Cognitive dissonance much?
Likewise, you prove your hypocrisy further by saying there is "no difference" between these weapons, claiming my distinctions are arbitrary semantics, and then you go on to say that fully automatic is too powerful for civilians (implying a CLEAR difference in these firearms), while once again saying Full auto is useless. You are running in circles.
Clearly you do not know your M-4 as well as you think you do.
Since I hold a number of firearms certifications, including a Colt armorers certification, let me explain it to you: the mechanical difference between an M-4 and and AR-15 is akin to the mechanical difference between a 2 wheel drive car and a 4-wheel drive car. Sure, a 2x4 F-150 looks just like a 4x4 F-150, but mechanically, they operate differently and have 2 entirely different systems that operate in totally separate fashion.
For the most basic difference: the AR and M-4 receivers are totally different. If you took the internal parts and fire control group out of an M-4 and tried to put them in an AR, you would fail. The internal parts from an M-4 wont fit inside of an AR-15.
And look at the barrels. M-4s had Cold Hammer Forged barrels with a Chrome lined bore. They are ultra durable and designed to handle sustained, full auto fire. Many Cold Hammer Forged, chrome lined barrels last well over 100,000 rounds and still maintain accuracy.
Most AR-15 barrels are made from chrom-moly steel (not safe for full auto, has a total life of ~15,000 rounds), Nitride/QPQ (not safe for full auto either, has a life of ~30,000 rounds), stainless (not safe for full auto, typically used for precision shooting, has a life of ~20,000 rounds), or parkerized chrome lined (OK for high volume, but not safe for full auto, has a life of around ~35,000 rounds).
And combat? Please. Full auto has many applications depending on the combat situation. Area suppression is typically the main reason for using it, although burst has unique advantages in close combat.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 11:05 AM
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You’re use of technical jargon may impress a layman but not someone with actual experience with the weapons in this discussion
I’m not arguing you don’t need a fully automatic weapon. I’m telling you, that you don’t need a semi-automatic weapon.
You’re trying to make a big difference between semi and fully automatic and missing the purpose. The M4 doesn’t need to be fully automatic to be an effective combat rifle.
Worse you’re trying to sound smart by saying he internals aren’t like for like replacements. To a novice, that may sound relevant. But once they learn they won’t fit because of a shorter barrel and gas feeding tube, they’ll realize the idiocy of your argument.
Lastly, you’re going to end up dead if you’re relying on your M4s to provide the fully auto suppressive fire. That’s what the 249 and 240 are for in combat.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 11:38 AM
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You’re use of technical jargon may impress a layman but not someone with actual experience with the weapons in this discussion
I'm a certified Colt armorer, among many other things. I work on these rifles, among others, on a weekly basis and I specialize in NFA items in my line of work. I have more experience handling and building these rifles than you do.
I’m not arguing you don’t need a fully automatic weapon. I’m telling you, that you don’t need a semi-automatic weapon.
And yet, you did
You’re trying to make a big difference between semi and fully automatic and missing the purpose. The M4 doesn’t need to be fully automatic to be an effective combat rifle.
That depends entirely upon the situation in hand.
Worse you’re trying to sound smart by saying he internals aren’t like for like replacements. To a novice, that may sound relevant. But once they learn they won’t fit because of a shorter barrel and gas feeding tube, they’ll realize the idiocy of your argument.
Here is where you have outright proven you know nothing about the M-4 platform except how to make it go "bang". There are plenty of carbine length AR's and pistol length AR's. I own several. Barrel length has absolutely nothing to do with the incompatibility of the lower parts. I have a few AR's with 14.5 inch FN CHF barrels. They cost about $400 a pop just for the barrel, but they are worth it. I have a few AR's with 10 inch barrels, and others with 18" and 20" barrels. I can take any upper from any of my ARs and put it on any lower of any of my other ARs. You should know that, did you forget how to clean and field strip your rifle or something? The internal fire control group from an M-4 will not fit in an AR-15. The fire control group is the parts that include the trigger, disconnector, hammer, trigger and hammer springs, sear disconnector, full auto sear, and safety selector. These are the parts that go inside the lower receiver. The entire URG, the upper receiver group (which includes the upper receiver, barrel, handguard, and bolt carrier group), are interchangeable as long as the bolt carrier group is the "full auto" version. I can take an M-4 upper assembly and install it on an AR-15 lower assembly, and it will work perfectly. I can take an AR-15 upper assembly and install it on an M-4 lower receiver assembly, and it will work perfectly as long as it has a mil spec pattern BCG. However, the AR-15 upper receiver assembly will not be as durable as the M-4 and will melt down and fail much faster than the M-4 upper assembly unless you want to buy a $400 barrel and $200 bolt carrier group capable of withstanding the stress of full auto. However, the fire control group from the lower receiver of the M-4 (the entire trigger mechanism and full auto mechanism) will not fit inside of an AR-15. The lower receivers are totally different. The parts arent interchangeable. You need a lower receiver specifically forged and milled to certain specs in order to install a full auto fire control group.
Lastly, you’re going to end up dead if you’re relying on your M4s to provide the fully auto suppressive fire. That’s what the 249 and 240 are for in combat.
Again, not true. The DoD actually doesnt have a definitive definition of "suppressive fire", as the needs for that change with the mission circumstances. Out on a scout patrol, sure, a SAW or a 240 are ideal for that. For close engagement? Not always. Operators? Nope. If your mission reqs dont allow for a belt fed squad gun, you utilize suppressive fire with the best application you can manage.
Just because you carry an M-4 on patrol and qualify 2-4 times a year does not make you an expert. Most military members, even ones that regularly carry rifles, wont be able to tell you the difference between "chrome lined" and "chrome moly" barrels. Come back when you get an armorer's certification.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 12:22 PM
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The obtuseness of this post is just phenomenal.
In a discussion where he’s arguing that they’re significantly different weapons, he states he can simply piece them together.
That my friends sums up the issue with the modern Republican Party.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Serious question: Can you read?
Mar 26, 2019, 12:26 PM
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This is twice in this thread that your reading comprehension seems suspect.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: Serious question: Can you read?
Mar 26, 2019, 1:52 PM
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I score exceptionally well on standardized tests at reading comprehension.
Maybe the issue is with you?
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Yes, I'm sure you completely misconstruing what people
Mar 26, 2019, 4:23 PM
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say is an issue with me.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 4:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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Nope.
It is clear you have never used an M-4 or any AR platform rifle.
If you did, you would know that both guns share a similar modular design.
You claim the barrel length and gas system are the only reasons for parts not being interchangeable, that is wrong. The upper receiver group and lower receiver group are 2 totally separate pieces. If you actually did have any experience with this rifle platform, you would know that the upper receiver can be separated from the lower receiver by removing the front pivot pin and rear take down pin. All AR or M4 lowers can be attached to all AR15 or M4 lowers. But you cannot take the internal parts from an M-4 lower receiver and place them inside an AR-15 lower receiver.
Let me repeat that, since you are stupid.
An M-4 upper receiver group can be installed on an AR-15 lower receiver, and will be semi automatic.
An AR-15 upper receiver group can be installed on an M-4 lower receiver, and will be fully automatic, although the AR-15 upper receiver will not withstand full auto fire for very long.
The internal parts from an AR-15 lower receiver cannot be installed in an M-4.
The Internal parts from an M-4 lower receiver cannot be installed in an AR-15.
They wont fit.
The lower receiver assembly is the entirely different portion. They have completely different parts and entirely different construction.
An AR-15 lower receiver has 2 pin holes and holds a trigger, disconnector, trigger and hammer spring, and hammer.
An M-4 lower receiver has 3 pin holes, a different take down detent, a trigger, hammer, disconnector, full auto sear, full auto disconnector, 3 position selector switch, and trigger springs, hammer springs, and auto sear springs. The M-4 lower also has internal areas milled specifically to accept the full auto sear. The M-4 lower has a completely different lower receiver chassis with completely different lower receiver parts that cannot be fitted into at AR-15.
The lower receiver groups are not the same.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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I guess this sounds good in your head but it’s idiotic when you actually think about it.
If someone attacks me with a baseball bat I have a decent chance of survival.
If someone has a gun my chances of survival are significantly lower.
Only a fool would take a certain death over a chance at survival.
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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"Certain death"
Mar 25, 2019, 11:40 AM
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Does everyone who gets shot die?
Pretty sure the mortality rate for getting shot is somewhere in the 20% range. I don't think things be how you think they be.
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110%er [5093]
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Re: "Certain death"
Mar 25, 2019, 12:49 PM
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The poster said he would rather be beaten to death than shot in the head and die.
Wanna give me the lethality rate of getting hit with a baseball bat?
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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Try reading his post again.***
Mar 25, 2019, 12:59 PM
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 6:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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I guess this sounds good in your head but it’s idiotic when you actually think about it.
If someone attacks me with a baseball bat I have a decent chance of survival.
If someone has a gun my chances of survival are significantly lower.
Only a fool would take a certain death over a chance at survival.
Wrong again. More Americansare actually killed by blunt objects like baseball bats and hammers than are by all types of rifle combined.
You are both misinformed and afraid of the wrong thing.
In fact, you have a greater chance of being beaten to death worth hands and feet than with a rifle...any rifle.
https://gunowners.org/fbi-more-people-killed-with-hammers-clubs-than-with-rifles-of-every-kind/
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110%er [5093]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 26, 2019, 4:29 PM
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How many people survived attacks with blunt objects?
You don’t seem to address the likelihood of survival.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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, but it is a lot harder. It is almost like you are suggesting that guns are not designed as the single most effective way for people to kill people, and that is where your logic here falls apart.
Guns are designed to propel a projectile out of a tube. Period.
If you want to get rid of an inanimate object than is used to kill people, get back to us after automobiles or forks are outlawed.
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella
Mar 25, 2019, 3:39 PM
[ in reply to you can also shovel your driveway with a umbrella ] |
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, but it is a lot harder. It is almost like you are suggesting that guns are not designed as the single most effective way for people to kill people, and that is where your logic here falls apart.
Guns are not anything like the best or most efficient way to kill lots of people.
Biological, Chemical, and especially Nuclear weapons are much more efficient and effective at that kind of killing.
Your claim us totally bogus.
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Heisman Winner [119571]
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The bad guys will take over now....***
Mar 22, 2019, 9:22 PM
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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just like in Australia right?
Mar 22, 2019, 9:47 PM
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because that is where this guy was from. he had to move to New Zealand to go on a shooting rampage.
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All-In [26968]
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I'll be interested to see how that goes.***
Mar 22, 2019, 9:26 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Honest question, why do you perpetually link from a site
Mar 23, 2019, 12:57 AM
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even google won’t index?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Walk-On [147]
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Heisman Winner [111389]
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Re: Just like that “assault weapons” are banned in New Zealand
Mar 23, 2019, 9:07 AM
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I would guess that anyone that keeps a loaded gun in their pocket with the safety off has absolutely no idea what they are doing. How in the frigging world would a a production company allow a loaded hand gun on set? When I worked in film I could not even bring a cell phone on set, let alone a loaded hand gun.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Just like that “assault weapons” are banned in New Zealand
Mar 23, 2019, 10:39 AM
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I like that old youtube video where that sheriff is teaching an elementary class about gun safety and he accidentally shoots himself in the foot.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Just like that “assault weapons” are banned in New Zealand
Mar 25, 2019, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just like that “assault weapons” are banned in New Zealand ] |
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Most handguns dont have safeties.
Safeties earned the name "##### switches" because they are unnecessary. Guns dont "go off" unless the trigger is pulled.
This guy's problem came from him not wearing a proper holster, or not wearing one at all. Cheap leather or cloth holsters are dangerous. They dont protect the trigger. Even worse, not carrying a holster fully exposes the trigger. This guy wasnt using a holster, something was able to hook onto the trigger, and bang.
Using a proper holster solves this issue.
For example, Glock pistols dont have safeties. 90% of all police officers carry Glocks. I carry a Glock every day. No issues - because its carrier properly in a quality holster.
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110%er [6558]
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WELL SAID
Mar 25, 2019, 2:06 PM
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nm
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The shooter planned it that way. Here's his words...
Mar 24, 2019, 12:46 PM
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I could have chosen any weapons or means. A TATP filled rental van. Household flour, a method of dispersion and an ignition source.A ballpeen hammer and a wooden shield.Gas,fire,vehicular attacks,plane attacks, any means were available. I had the will and I had the resources.I chose firearms for the affect it would have on social discourse, the extra media coverage they would provide and the affect it could have on the politics of United states and thereby the political situation of the world.The US is torn into many factions by its second amendment, along state, social, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.With enough pressure the left wing within the United states will seek to abolish the second amendment, and the right wing within the US will see this as an attack on their very freedom and liberty.This attempted abolishment of rights by the left will result in a dramatic polarization of the people in the United States and eventually a fracturing of the US along cultural and racial lines.
...
Finally, to create conflict between the two ideologies within the United States on the ownership of firearms in order to further the social, cultural,political and racial divide within the United states.This conflict over the 2nd amendment and the attempted removal of firearms rights will ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines.This balkanization of the US will not only result in the racial separation of the people within the United States ensuring the future of the White race on the North American continent, but also ensuring the death of the “melting pot” pipe dream.
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Lot o points [155633]
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It’s a shame that such a well conceived manifesto was
Mar 25, 2019, 9:27 AM
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Hijacked by him using “affect” when he needed “effect”.
I found it hard to give him any credibility after that.
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All-In [46799]
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So what is the answer?
Mar 25, 2019, 9:44 AM
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The simple fact is, these events occur and the events that cause the most casualties are committed by modified .223/5.56 rifles. That's the fact.
So what's the answer to stopping this?
Because frankly I've heard NOTHING from Republicans except "don't take muh guns"
The only ideas on how to lessen/stop these events have come from the left. And all that's heard on the right is "lulz that won't work/second amendment"
So republicans. What's the answer to this problem?
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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You should read this guys manifesto (if you can find it),
Mar 25, 2019, 10:17 AM
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and realize your reaction is exactly what he was looking for. He specifically used the AR to rustle your jimmies and get you all emotional, and he's been more successful than his wildest dreams in doing that.
The reality is, if you want to go down this road, you've got to address ALL semi automatic weapons. Hand guns, rifles, and even shotguns...All effectively function the same. How are you going to do that? Just ban semi-auto's?
New Zealand is trying to make knee jerk reactions to gun control laws like you're yearning for. Of course, they're also arresting people for merely possessing the video of the shooting. Do you really want to live in a country like that?
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All-In [46799]
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And in all of that I still don't see an answer.
Mar 25, 2019, 10:21 AM
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thanks for proving my point
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Oculus Spirit [79400]
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You might have to be a big boy and think about it a little
Mar 25, 2019, 10:25 AM
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bit. If you're just expecting someone to spit out an answer at you, you're going to continually be disappointed.
Here, I'll boil it down for you: Is banning all semi automatic firearms something you're comfortable with?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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CU Guru [1018]
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Re: So what is the answer?
Mar 25, 2019, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to So what is the answer? ] |
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Modified AR - 15's???
Wrong. Most AR-15's (and similar rifles that get lumped with them by the the ignorant) aren't modified. They can be customized with a variety of optics, grips, etc. but those don't change the way they function.
Modified implies fully automatic.
Exactly one full auto modification rifle has been used in a U.S. mass shooting since the Pearl, MS High School shooting way back in the 1990's. That was one weapon in the Dan Bernardino terrorist attack.
Terrorists aren't going to abide by any of our laws, let alone gun laws.
More importantly, your claim is bunk. Per the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting system, handguns are the overwhelming choice of U.S. mass shooters. UCR was the source for the stats in this article.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
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