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YOUR BALANCE
IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...
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IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 15, 2019, 2:52 PM

It's his lack of the "killer mentality" that every sport needs to have.

For example, in the NCST game, even with 2 seconds left and an all-but-certain loss, he should have lost his cool on the referees. They were absolutely horrible. By the way, this happens in almost every game we play in the ACC.

Then, he should've called DRad and said to go ahead and get ready to deduct from his paycheck the fine he's about to get from the postgame press conference (publicly ripping the refs).

Finally, he needs to be more proactive in getting in the ears of his players and the referees instead of his famous mouth open/arms out/"I'm not going to say anything, but I'll voice my discontent with that call with my weak body language" pose (see attached photo).

Okay, so that may be a bit excessive. But look at the successful coaches and how they interact with the players and officials. IMO, Brad is great guy and a great coach, but he is simply too soft to coach in a league where his players compete against the likes of Coach K's intense nature to his players and the refs.

Think about it: if all the coaches are busting a vein yelling at the refs, do you think they're going to hear Brad? If all the players are used to a demand for winning, who do you think is going to want it more coming out of a 16-point half-time lead?

I understand the lack of support from fans and administration. I also understand that we are not loaded with 5 star players. But what can change is that those 12 players, that head coach, and all the assistants have a mentality of refusing to lose. It's not about missing last-second free throws, it's about why we were put in that position in the first place.

Sorry. I just had to vent.

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 15, 2019, 3:04 PM

Do you think Bill Snyder was a good football coach at Kansas State?

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"Anybody that says Coach Brownell is the best coach to come through Clemson is going to start an argument." -JP Hall


Dumb...how many national titles do they have again?


Mar 15, 2019, 3:15 PM

Or conference titles for that matter?

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Re: Dumb...how many national titles do they have again?


Mar 17, 2019, 1:11 AM

Is John Wooden a better example? He has a few Na Titles...

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Re: Dumb...how many national titles do they have again?


Mar 17, 2019, 1:14 AM

New phone and very touchy...I was trying to say that Wooden might be a better example since he won 10 National Championships. ?????

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 15, 2019, 3:40 PM [ in reply to Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching... ]

Bill Snyder Coaching Statistics:

Years Coaching: 27

Wins: 215
Losses: 117
PCT: .647
Bowl Record: 9-10
PCT: .474
Conference Championships: 2 (1 Tie)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/bill-snyder-1.html

Yes; I think Bill Snyder was a good football coach at Kansas State.

The difference is: he took a program that went 27 games without a win and a team that had 4 winning seasons in 52 seasons, and he turned them into college football relevance. At times, he turned them into a great team. He took one of the historically worst college football programs and made it respectable.

Brad Brownell has kept an average Clemson basketball program, well, average.

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 16, 2019, 9:27 PM

Clemson average? Wut? Maybe under Brownell, but that certainly isn't the long view. Clemson has only been "average" in the past 10-15 years.

We rank 14 of 17 in conference winning % out of all participating ACC schools.

17 schools? Yeah, that is going back to '53 and includes both the coots and benedict turtles (Maryland). The only schools we are better % are the Coots, Pittsburgh, and Boston College. We are 16 of 17 for SRS (only beating the coots) for that same time if we take a look at BC and Pitt's pre-ACC records.

We are dead last of the "traditional" ACC schools and if it wasn't for the coots, a team that quite 50 years ago, then yeah, we are very much like Kansas State.

I can get the frustration of being a constant bubble team of sorts, but I remember when I always knew which game my tiger would be playing in for the tourney... that 8/9 seed game. The only thing up for debate would be the color of the jersey. 9-9 might be tiresome but dang, it is a lot better than what we have been.

FYI, IF this 9-9 season was "disappointing" consider this: It would have been Rick Barnes 2nd best season. He only cracked .500 once in conference play. And I think that was the last season Coach K had a losing record.

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If we actually care about basketball..


Mar 15, 2019, 4:12 PM

then he needs to go. If we just 'meh' care, then financially do nothing until his contract expires or it becomes embarrassing or we start losing money on basketball. 1

Im just over it. I know people rag on Purnell but he was much better than Brownell and actually built a program and left it in a great spot. He took over for Shyatt and we had several below average years and Purnell had us competing in just a few years. He ended with 4 straight 20 win seasons and nearly 4 NCAAT (just missed one but ended up in NIT Fianl). We won some big games and watched a fun brand of basketball. Yes it put us a bad spot against many super athletic teams but all I know its better than what I've watched for the past 9 years (except maybe last year, maybe).

Purnell left the cupboard well stocked and Brownell didnt do much to keep it that way.

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Re: If we actually care about basketball..


Mar 15, 2019, 4:29 PM

I don't disagree that Brownell has kept our team average, but there's good reason to believe Purnell left due to the writing on the wall. The cupboard was not full, it was quite empty. He knew Devin Booker, Milton Jennings, Noel Johnson, though all highly touted, were misses. Thornton was the only commit, who ultimately went to UGA. Despite the recruiting stars, the cupboard was deceptively bare.

Again, don't mistake me for a fan of Brownell, he hasn't really taken us anywhere special. But I have to disagree about the state of the roster upon his arrival.

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Good points...


Mar 15, 2019, 10:00 PM

Guess i was referring more to the immediate roster his first year and not thinking about years after. Now that I think about it though, all three of those guys were 4 or 5 stars and Booker and Jennings finished with solid careers. Both would've started for tigers this year and last. They weren't superstars but weren't duds either.

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Re: If we actually care about basketball..


Mar 15, 2019, 9:58 PM [ in reply to If we actually care about basketball.. ]

Incorrect

Cupboard was not stocked. OP could not develop players.OP had a gimmick press vs a strategy. OP is still waiting on his first ever NCAA win. OP players were athletes first then played basketball.

OPs team never shot FTs well. Baicu was a nothing to OP. BB made him serviceable for the lone year he had him.

OP stocked his win via weak nonconference teams. How many times did Clemson start undefeated in nonconference to then drop back to earth and be average in ACC conf?

OPs successes: 3 NCAAs lose in first round. Made ACC Final once and had a good year as 3 SRs who stayed 4 years grew as people and leaders for a solid feisty team. Beat uscjr and crushed highly ranked Duke one time and highly ranked UNC one time.

This is not a all support BB post. He must improve recruiting. He has to land better talent. I bet he has 2 yrs max in DRads eyes. BB is not fired this year. But 2021 is my bet for when he will be gone if things do not improve. Next year will be hard in my opinion.

This post is to challenge the belief that OP was great which is BS.

I will say that this is first year Clemson basketball under BB has not exceeded pre-season expectations. Every year or close to it Clemson exceeded preseason expectations under BB.

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Re: If we actually care about basketball..


Mar 16, 2019, 8:16 PM

In the grand scheme, assuming you keep the program clean, wins are all that matter. Whether they come from 3 pointers, a huge big man, free throws, or a "gimmick press" is really irrelevant.

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If you keep the program clean?


Mar 16, 2019, 9:31 PM

In a sport that's as dirty as Lake Erie 30 years ago? Great...crystal clean and nothing to show for it, because all the other programs are laughing their arses off at an incompetent NCAA.

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Re: If we actually care about basketball..


Mar 16, 2019, 9:41 PM [ in reply to Re: If we actually care about basketball.. ]

Yes and no.

I agree, OP kinda stopped recruiting when he way eying the door, so I agree with you there.

Next, he did recruit some talent. I played pick-up with Vernon... he was gifted as heck, but not a scorer. He did everything but points. OP's style was to target the "flawed" but gifted players and then try and scheme them with his gimmick and the pair them with someone that could take the load. However, he never really developed like BB does. If Vernon played for BB, he would go from a weak offensive threat to a moderate, occasional scorer. OP finding a unknown Booker was the blind squirrel moment.

OP was the Big South champion, even after Radford. He would schedule, Gardener Webb, Campbell, High Point, UNC Asheville, and the like... seriously, like 6+ Big South teams in OOC play. It was ridiculous. However, Rick Barnes did this too.

Finally, OP cashed out with Booker. He did not have a follow-up and I wonder if that was not a contributor. Getting more pressure to play harder teams without an NBA talent and a restless fanbase unhappy about being 0-fer in the tourney. Getting out was a good idea.

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 15, 2019, 5:04 PM

And that helps to give the Refs a risk free bad calls against us knowing that a peep won't come from Brownell. And if he would go off like other coaches do over bad calls, I believe they would less likely risk being called out over a border line call that wasn't actually a foul!!! He has I think only one technical foul called on him in his coaching history, and that shows that he won't take up for his guys when bad calls are made against them, and that has to affect them in a way knowing that!!!

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I agree he needs to chew out some refs!!


Mar 15, 2019, 7:53 PM

Also - don’t understand why refs are so above reproach in the ACC. There must be some path to corrective action when needed...!!

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 15, 2019, 8:04 PM [ in reply to Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching... ]

I once read an article quoting football refs and Coaches that were the hardest on them... Saban and Dabo were consistently at the top. Another 30
Year veteran said Spurrier... so yea... it matters to be hard but respectful to the refs! I clearly remember Dabo yelling in a ear of a Sideline official in the NCG “DO YOUR JOB!” as he was shaking his hat and pointing to him!

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Yes - remember Dabo yelling that also ... but ...


Mar 16, 2019, 8:00 PM

.... never did figure out exactly what he was talking about?!

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If people were as good as their obituary - and products were as good as advertised - this would truly be a wonderful world !!


Re: Yes - remember Dabo yelling that also ... but ...


Mar 16, 2019, 9:33 PM

Alabama's right tackle grabbed Austin Bryant and threw him to the ground one or two plays before that.

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 16, 2019, 8:09 PM

He should work the refs like Dabo, Saban, and Coach K. All three of them do it right. Each a little different. All three highly effective.

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All of those coaches also have top talent


Mar 16, 2019, 8:22 PM

and programs with a strong history/reputation.

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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


Re: All of those coaches also have top talent


Mar 16, 2019, 8:27 PM

Just shut up and go away you tool. You and CM Shack are just retards.

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For clarifications sake, is he a coot too or is it just me?


Mar 16, 2019, 10:49 PM

Asking for a friend

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Wow, seriously?***


Mar 16, 2019, 11:52 PM [ in reply to Re: All of those coaches also have top talent ]



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"All those 'Fire Brownell' guys can kiss it." -Joseph Girard III

"Everybody needs to know that Coach Brownell is arguably the best coach to come through Clemson." -PJ Hall


I knew he had a crush on me, looks like he's sweet on you


Mar 17, 2019, 12:57 AM

too...It's ok, Im good with sharing him

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i have supported Brownell from day 1. Still do.


Mar 16, 2019, 9:41 PM

I'll take Coach Brownnell over coaches with anger management issue like Frank Martin. I would want my kids to play for CBB.

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Have you watched FSU Leonard Hamilton - CALM like CBB


Mar 16, 2019, 10:38 PM

I don't hear anyone saying Leonard Hamilton needs to change his demeanor.

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Re: Have you watched FSU Leonard Hamilton - CALM like CBB


Mar 16, 2019, 10:48 PM

This.

A lot of calm coaches do well. Fire and brimstone only work with certain players, other prefer the calm.

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Re: Have you watched FSU Leonard Hamilton - CALM like CBB


Mar 16, 2019, 10:53 PM

How many calm coaches win national championships in the modern era?

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Re: Have you watched FSU Leonard Hamilton - CALM like CBB


Mar 16, 2019, 10:55 PM

Jay Wright. Next.

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Re: IMO, Brownell's Problem isn't Coaching...


Mar 17, 2019, 3:31 AM

Just made a similar argument about his lack of fire in the other thread about whether people think he should go or stay. Interesting to see that this bothered quite a few of you as well as me.

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