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YOUR BALANCE
If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit
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If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:16 AM

to Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Oklahoma and Ohio State of playing in and winning a conference championship? Is there any?

Is there any scenario where Notre Dame gets knocked out of the playoffs?

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:28 AM

Go 13 and 0 and you're in ahead of 12-0 ND. Teams in 5 conferences have that opportunity at the beginning of every season.

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Mississippi Tiger --------- Clemson University - 8 Time National Football Champions - 1900, 1906, 1948, 1950, 1981, 1983, 2016, 2018


Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 11:06 AM

But you have to admit it's harder to go 13-0 than 12-0 - especially when the 13th is not likely to be a cupcake team.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 11:15 AM

It's basically the same level of difficulty when one of your 13 opponents is an FCS team.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:31 AM

No upside, only downside for Clemson. Same for UGA. tOSU and OK upside fighting for the 4th spot assuming UGA loses. Assuming both tOSU and OK win, style points likely will come into play selecting 4th.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:37 AM

I can think of one



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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 10:03 AM

That hideous trophy? I'm sorry, but I can not be the only one who thinks we have the worst looking Conference Championship trophy around. I'd rather have the old oaken bucket than that thing that looks like a couple of rednecks made it welding pieces from the scrap yard. Just give the boys their rings and skip the trophy, save the ACC $30.00

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Isn't that where the original design came


Nov 28, 2018, 11:08 AM

from?

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:42 AM

There are computer models that say if Bama, Oklahoma and Ohio State win then Notre Dame is out. Now I don’t for a minute believe the committee will do that, but that is what one computer model shows.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:43 AM

The problem is not having to play for a conference championship.
The problem is either the NCAA or the Committee doesn't have the balls to make Notre Dame join a conference.
Notre Dame set the rule and Swofford bent over backward and kissed their @$$ to get Notre Dame to join the ACC in every sport but football.
Now maybe the NCAA or the Committee can't make Notre Dame join, but I think they have the power to establish a rule which says you don't play for a conference championship, you don't get to play in the CFP's.
As far as a scenario goes, if Ohio State wins big, and Georgia somehow beats Bama, you could have either one of those teams bumping Notre Dame to #5 thus knocking them out.
Of course, Clemson has to win as well, but that would make for 5 teams with a legitimate argument for getting in.
So, just my take, but the "Best Case Scenario" for keeping Notre Dame out is for Bama to lose a close one to UGA, Ohio State to win "BIG" over Northwestern, and Clemson to 'handle" Pitt.
If that happens, IMO, UGA moves to #1, Clemson stays at #2, Bama at #3 and Ohio State to #4.
Why this way? Quite simple.IF #1 UGA beats #4 Ohio State, and "#3 Bama beats #2, Clemson, you have another all eSECpn final.
And wouldn't the football guru's at eSECpn just love that?

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:53 AM

IMO Ohio State could win 100-0 and it doesn't take away from the blowout loss they had against Purdue. It's one thing to lose a close game, but to get blown out by an unranked team? For everyone upset that ND isn't playing in a conference championship game, they are only in right now because they went unbeaten which is something that only Clemson and Bama have done from a major conference.

Oklahoma and Ohio State wouldn't be in the position they're currently in if they had taken care of business. Winning a conference should matter to an extent, but it shouldn't be some magic cure to undo an earlier loss in the season.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:56 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

Bama and O31O state both entered the playoffs without competing for a conference championship. Their W/L record kept them out of the conference championship. I would love it if they required you to win your conference to be considered.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:04 AM

I've said this before, but here's my problem with what you're saying. Bama went 7-1 in the SEC last year just like we went 7-1 in the ACC. The difference being that Clemson lost to a team that went 5-7 on the year, and thus their win over us didn't earn them a spot in the ACC Championship. Bama lost to an Auburn team that also went 7-1 in the SEC and thus took their spot in the SEC Championship. So Clemson somehow was more deserving because the team they lost to wasn't good enough to win the division?

It sounds good to say "if you aren't good enough to win your conference then you shouldn't be in" but you're basically rewarding a team that won a weaker conference. What happens if one year Clemson has an impressive resume that includes wins over several ranked teams including say a top 5 Georgia OOC or something, and they lose in overtime on the road against FSU who's ranked in the top 5 that year as well. Clemson shouldn't even be in the discussion that year for making the CFP? But say an Ohio State team that gets spanked at home by an unranked team, but still manages to win the Big 10 should still be in the discussion since they won their conference?

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you know


Nov 28, 2018, 8:21 AM

I never really thought of it like that, but that is a good point.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 9:06 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

"Weaker conference" is not only subjective, but irrelevant. When considering the individual team, you have to consider their schedule and record. Not what the conference is doing.

A conference could be very strong, but the top team in that conference may only play the weakest teams in that conference. One such case is Alabama.


You could argue Alabama playing in the SEC is a good qualification, until you look at the fact that Alabama has the weakest schedule of all top 10 teams right now.

Last year, the ACC may have been down, but Clemson played a top 5 strength of schedule regardless of what the rest of the conference was doing.

Conference strength is irrelevant.

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your argument fails here "a weaker conference."


Nov 28, 2018, 9:46 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

that and these rankings is 100% subjective.

you posted yourself..every powe 5 team has a cHanceville at the beginning of the year.

well that would be true if the rule was, only confetence champs will be considered.

last year Wisconsin was undefeated and in the playoffs, just like ND is now. Bama was out.

Wisconsin didn't have the luxury of sitting on their regular season record like bama did and like ND does now.

they had to play...played their way right out of the cfp while bama practiced their way in.

now uga, osu, and oklahoma may play theit way outta the cfp while ND gets to practice their way in.

all your arguments are opinion based to meet your agenda.

if the rule was, win your conference champion game to get in, then there is no agenda. .no polls, no rankings. . nothing Matters until the very last day of the season, after the conference champ games.

if they means a 8-5 pitt has a chance at the CFP and a 12-0 ND doesnt...oh well. as you posted, everyone knows the rules ahead of time. win your games, get into your cinference cham game, and then when it.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: your argument fails here "a weaker conference."


Nov 28, 2018, 10:21 AM

By weaker conference, I only meant last year as an example, Clemson and Alabama each had the same record within their conferences. Clemson lost to a Syracuse team that finished 4-8 overall which allowed Clemson to still make the ACC Championship. Alabama lost to Auburn who finished 7-1 in the SEC which allowed them to get into the SEC Championship ahead of Alabama.

Heck, Georgia played in the same conference and lost to the same Auburn team that Bama lost to, but was still able to get into the SEC Championship due to playing in the weaker SEC East. I don't see how Clemson and Georgia did more to earn their spot than Bama did just by luck of what the record was of the other teams in their division.

I do think conference titles should matter in a situation where things are very close between two teams, but I didn't have a problem with Bama getting in last year because Ohio State not only had 2 losses, but they were blowouts.

What happened to Wisconsin last year sucked for them, but as you said, they knew the rules ahead of time, and they knew going into the Big 10 title game that they weren't getting in if they lost to Ohio State. Maybe they could've still gotten in if their OOC schedule was something better than Utah State, BYU, and Florida Atlantic? Also, nobody outside of Wisconsin believed they were better than Bama last year. The CFP is about getting in the 4 best teams, it's not the "fair" playoffs.

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Re: your argument fails here "a weaker conference."


Nov 28, 2018, 11:02 AM

Very well said and you’re exactly right.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


this year, last year, the next year


Nov 28, 2018, 11:10 AM [ in reply to Re: your argument fails here "a weaker conference." ]

it's all the same..and all subjective.

you shouldn't have to argue you're way in.

playing the conference champ games mean a lot if you lose, they should mean just as much if you win.

if that means the CFP is full of 7-6 teams, then good on you governor. your 12-0 team should have Beaten that 6-6 team in the conference champ game.

I dont care if you could be the Cleveland Browns on a neutral field. you couldn't beat a 0.500 team to win your confetence so you're outtie 5000.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: this year, last year, the next year


Nov 28, 2018, 11:19 AM

So if the CFP in your mind only rewards P5 champions, who gets left out of the 4 team playoff. How do you determine who is left out? Seems that would be subjective.

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yes..right now. because there are only 4 slots


Nov 28, 2018, 12:09 PM

making the conference champ rule would be easier to implement than expanding, but..but..it isn't practical right now.


even if the implemented it, you would still need 1 committe/poll at the end of the year to decide which 4 conference champs are in. which, as you posted is still subjective.

right now they could, and should, put a heavier emphasis on conference champions. ND shouldnt be sitting carefree right now.

history as proven over and over that any1 can beat any1 n any given day. playing even 1 more game is huge, no matter who it is against.


ideally they would expand to accommodate more conference champs.. ideally 10 for the 10 NCAA div 1 conferences.


Every1 needs to remember that this NC isn't a NCAA NC. it isnt sanctioned by the NCAA. it is a 4 team tournament between ESPN, 5 conferences, and ND. this is why the NCAA recognizes Bama and CFU as 2017 NCs.

I dnt know if you noticed but the dialogue from ESPN for the last few weeks has been, don't change anything. this is awesome, this is perfect. they want the contraversy to generate ratings. The power 5 and ND want the contraversy to sign bigger TV deals.

I believe the national championion is a secondary thought for them.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: yes..right now. because there are only 4 slots


Nov 28, 2018, 12:51 PM

If they just allowed the conference champions to get an auto bid, then why would anyone bother to schedule any tough OOC games? There would be almost no need for looking to build a resume with OOC wins. You could say seeding, but I don't think that would be enough to prevent the OOC schedules from going to crap. Also, what happens then when a team clinches their division with 1 or 2 games remaining? What's to stop them from sitting out players until the conference championship game since those games wouldn't really mean anything?

I just think the quality of games in the regular season would take a huge hit. Picture us and FSU both being top 5 teams, and we lose a close game to them early in the season. We'd play out the rest of the season knowing we had zero chance of winning a NC unless FSU were to slip up and lose 2 games. There would certainly be no guarantee of making it under the current system either, but at least the door would still be open.

There really is no perfect way of doing things, and what seems like a good way of doing something now would likely change in the eyes of someone as soon as that rule doesn't benefit their team, or as soon as it benefits a team they don't like.

Besides, although the CFP hasn't been around all that long, it's not as if there is this long long history of non conference winners getting in. It's happened twice so far, and each time involved a 1 loss team getting in over a 2 loss conference winner. ND would make 3 times, but they are at least unbeaten. It's one thing to complain and say it's a popularity contest and only the big teams benefit from it, but really, what team has truly been screwed out of a playoff spot in the current format? Yeah people complain about conference winners not getting in, but what conference winner has had a clear cut case of how they should have gotten in over another team by comparing records/resumes, but was passed up by a bigger name?

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:14 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

Thank swofford, he is the one who accepted their crap deal with the acc.

The big 10 laughed in ND face with the same deal

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:27 AM

Don't know about you, but I'm glad we are facing Pitt instead of ND in ACCCG this week.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:24 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

Alabama has proven twice you don’t have to win a conference to be the best team in football.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


No, Alabama proved that


Nov 28, 2018, 8:39 AM

All you need is to get in the CFP to win that 4-team tournament. Currently, that's essentially what this is all about...getting in. In Bama's case, preseason perceptions (annually now) establish a foundation that the SEC is The Conference and Bama is Goliath. All other conferences play the part of David. It shouldn't be that way...but it is.

With respect to Notre Dame...if the CFP is willing to credit them with entry based on a 12-0 regular season, then Bama and Clemson should be as well, with no regard for the CCG outcomes. To suggest otherwise is double jeopardy...heck, simply playing the CCG is an injury risk, at a minimum.

Something has to give...ND joins a conference...or the CCG's go away...or the CFP is expanded. There's too much money involved now to let fuzzy (committee metrics) evaluations define The 4.

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Re: No, Alabama proved that


Nov 28, 2018, 8:42 AM

Why shouldn’t it be that way?

The SEC has won 9 of the last 12 national championships.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Do you Capons ever get tired...


Nov 28, 2018, 8:48 AM

of always having to live vicariously through some other team or your conference?

At some point, wouldn't it be easier and a lot less sad and pathetic to just change teams.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


I get the vicarious aspect,


Nov 28, 2018, 8:53 AM

Actually! Who the He ll wants to go through life as a gravel-pecking clucker!?!

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Re: No, Alabama proved that


Nov 28, 2018, 8:56 AM [ in reply to Re: No, Alabama proved that ]

The SEC has won nothing. A handful of teams from the SEC have won championships. Just because you belong to a conference that wins the natty doesn't mean you get to claim it. All you SEC homers are pathetic.

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ITs one thing to have SEC pride b/c you've helped or taken


Nov 28, 2018, 9:01 AM [ in reply to Re: No, Alabama proved that ]

part in the success. Its another sad thing to be proud of the success but are a essentially a doormat in said conference. Thats where i hope and pray Clemson never has to find contentment in the successes of our competitors who stick their noses up at us.

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Re: ITs one thing to have SEC pride b/c you've helped or taken


Nov 28, 2018, 9:14 AM

That’s a lot of extrapolation for a discussion about why the sec has earned the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: ITs one thing to have SEC pride b/c you've helped or taken


Nov 28, 2018, 9:29 AM

You really are one hell of an idiot..

I mean wow..

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LOL..."earned the benefit of the doubt"...lol


Nov 28, 2018, 9:31 AM [ in reply to Re: ITs one thing to have SEC pride b/c you've helped or taken ]

You do realize that each year the ranking process begins anew, with no weight given to the previous years results?

Wow...just wow !!!!




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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


We can all cherry-pick stats to fit our arguments


Nov 28, 2018, 10:04 AM [ in reply to Re: No, Alabama proved that ]

The ACC has won 2 of the last 5 championships, same as the SEC. Big10 has one as well.

In the 7 seasons preceding your 12-year period, the SEC only won it once.

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Coots have ZERO BCS & College Playoff appearances. HTH***


Nov 28, 2018, 10:29 AM [ in reply to Re: No, Alabama proved that ]



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BCS era came & went without them getting so much as a sniff


Nov 28, 2018, 10:47 AM

CFP era will be no different.

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When the pinnacle of your teams success...


Nov 28, 2018, 11:00 AM

involves the Outback Bowl and the Citrus Bowl, you may be a u5c fan.

There was a time, which predated the BCS era, when those two bowl games were more meaningful. Once the BCS era began, those two games were merely consolation prizes.




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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


no bama has proving twice that regular season


Nov 28, 2018, 9:58 AM [ in reply to Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit ]

games won't stop you from winning a NC.

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 7:58 AM

It's easy to point to all of the negative aspects for playing in a conference championship this year because of the way it played out, however, ND loses the benefit of the conf. championship when there is less separation between the top 4.

If ND was sitting at 11-1 ranked somewhere in the 4-6 range they wouldn't have the opportunity to play a decent team to boost resume. Essentially they have to go 12-0 to make playoffs while everyone can make it with a loss. For example, the tigers can go 11-1 in the regular season, losing to a Syracuse/Pitt team and beating an FCS opponent while ND has to go 12-0 playing only FBS opponents.

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The Committee has established that conference champions...


Nov 28, 2018, 8:18 AM

can get a mulligan and still make the playoffs even with a loss.

Notre Dame has no such benefit. One loss and they're pretty much out.

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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Well lets hop in the way back machine and travel all the way


Nov 28, 2018, 8:27 AM

back in time 4 whole years to 2014. Back in that age of CFB the Big XII had no title game. Going into conference championship week two 11-1 Big XII teams were poised to make a run a run at a CFP spot with TCU sitting at #3 and Baylor at #6. While almost all of the debate focused on TCU vs Baylor for the last spot (Baylor had beaten TCU that year, and, despite being ranked 3 spots behind, many people thought Baylor deserved the nod over TCU), Ohio State used that 13th and final game to obliterate Wisconsin 59-0 in the B1G title game. The weeks of TCU/Baylor debate ended up being completely moot as the Buckeyes, riding the wave of the blowout victory and conference championship, vaulted past both teams to steal the 4th and final bid into the inaugural College Football Playoff. A month later, after beating #1 Alabama and #2 Oregon, Ohio State was crowned national champion, something that never would've happened had they not had that 13th game on the schedule.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:32 AM

If...
OU blows out Texas
OhSt blows out North

Then it will get interesting. A lot of athletic directors on the committee... I would imagine many of them do not enjoy the perks Notre Dame gets by shunning conference affiliation. Would be a way to send them a message by dropping them to 5th... and they have an out too... the criteria clearly says they will show deference to conference champions so.. we will see...

I think ND is in though.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 8:32 AM

Without the game Oklahoma and Ohio State would be out. There is no benefit this year for us.

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i think the only way Notre Dame gets in is to go undefeated


Nov 28, 2018, 8:58 AM

with the assumption of continuing a competitive schedule. If they have one loss and another team has one loss combined with a conference title then the committee would be hard-pressed to make a case for ND over that conference title winner. So essentially ND has only 1 way to get in. Be flawless every time. Which in that case they probably deserved it.

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I think one solution would be to require independent teams


Nov 28, 2018, 9:04 AM

play a 13th game.

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Re: I think one solution would be to require independent teams


Nov 28, 2018, 9:35 AM

I agree, but not a Louisiana Monroe.

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So Notre Dame can play Air Force or Army?***


Nov 28, 2018, 9:51 AM [ in reply to I think one solution would be to require independent teams ]



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


Re: So Notre Dame can play Air Force or Army?***


Nov 28, 2018, 9:58 AM

Yeah that would be tough to figure out. Pitt sucks, but it's not like that every year in the ACC. ND would need to schedule a real team, even an Iowa or someone like that. Just not some scrub team.

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Re: So Notre Dame can play Air Force or Army?***


Nov 28, 2018, 10:31 AM

Why would they have to schedule the 13th game against a real team? Most P5 teams have at least 1 game with a team like Furman during the season to go along with a team like Georgia Southern. ND did play Ball State this year, but I can't remember the last time they played a team at the level of Furman(no offense to Furman). So if they scheduled a 13th game, why couldn't they just schedule a team like Furman for that game?

The ACC Championship will be the 10th game this season against a P5 team, which is the same amount of P5 teams ND has played. Clemson's other 2 games were Furman and Georgia Southern. The other 2 games for ND were Ball State and Navy. It's easy to think of the ACC Championship game as an extra game which technically it is, but that extra game in the overall look of things is basically the Furman game.

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Re: If Notre Dame is a lock for the playoffs what is the benefit


Nov 28, 2018, 9:20 AM

Good point. I personally think it's ridiculous that one team only has to play 12 games and the others 13, assuming they play in a conference championship, which btw, 95/100 will be a highly ranked and/or quality opponent, which also makes it A LOT easier to lose the game.

If said team did lose this 13th game and kept them out of the CFP, while the 12-0 team gets in, well, that's just bull crap, as CDS says.

It's sort of like, in baseball, giving your opponentm 10 innings to hit but you only get 9!?

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8 team playoff


Nov 28, 2018, 9:50 AM

You bring up a good point, and has been said on here a bunch of times an 8 team playoff resolves about 99% of the "who gets in" issues. The 5 power conference champs and 3 at large teams...then ND can keep their precious independent status and get in as an at large. It doesn't resolve the issue of some teams having to play a 13th game (main thing is potential injuries), but it takes care of pretty much everything else.

With that setup we're gonna have some other issues like debating on what teams who have lost their conference championship games should be in, but there is no single solution that's gonna resolve everything.

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8 team playoff means 5 SEC teams ... they would find a way


Nov 28, 2018, 10:20 AM

To leave out a PAC champion ( or other conference champion) with multiple losses.

I can already hear iESPN now “ Florida with 3 losses is better than Stanford (or whoever) who lost at Oregon and Notre Dame.”

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Correct!


Nov 28, 2018, 10:42 AM

The only way you go to an 8 team playoff is to say conferences are limited to a maximum of 2 teams in the playoff.

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null


It does not seem fair that they get to play one less game


Nov 28, 2018, 10:02 AM

and be in playoffs! They ought to join the ACC football Conference!

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To be fair, Notre Dame doesn't play FCS cupcakes, ever


Nov 28, 2018, 10:12 AM

Several of their opponents this year are having unusually bad seasons, though.

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Historically FSU, Southern Cal, Va Tech, Stanford are good.


Nov 28, 2018, 10:26 AM

Northwestern, Pitt, Cuse and a few others are solid.

Michigan will just be Michiganing every year.

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Unsure why ND isn't playing in the ACCCG


Nov 28, 2018, 10:16 AM

But there is a scenario. Clemson, Georgia, Ohio and OU all win. Doubt the committee would leave out Bama. So it would be us, bama, uga and then a 3 way talk about nd, ou and ohio.

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Serious albeit ridiculous question regarding conference cham


Nov 28, 2018, 10:24 AM

pionship...

Does anyone know if the rules allow for an undefeated team to decline playing the conference championship game in order to preserve their undefeated season? (Even if the odds strongly favor winnig the championship.) Seems like that would be a good way for a Clemson, Bama or UGA (or any Power 5) to level the playing field with Notre Dame (in years when ND appears to be a lock for playoffs).

I know it's not comparing apples to apples, but the idea occurred to me because certain players with a very high chance of playing in the NFL simply choose to not play their final college game in order to protect themselves for the future. My question about declining to play the 13th game is like protecting the future of the team in an odd sort of way.

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Re: Serious albeit ridiculous question regarding conference cham


Nov 28, 2018, 10:35 AM

I get what you're saying, but there's no way any team would turn down that game even if it was allowed. What program is going to give up the chance to win a conference title? What coach is going to give up his bonus for winning it? What coach/program is going to basically acknowledge they are afraid of losing a game?

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Re: Serious albeit ridiculous question regarding conference cham


Nov 28, 2018, 12:22 PM [ in reply to Serious albeit ridiculous question regarding conference cham ]

no, goes with being in the ACC... has nothing to do with CFP.

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