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Heisman Winner [137880]
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From buddybook
Nov 20, 2018, 9:22 AM
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I'm racking my brain trying to list all of the authoritarian demagogues on the Democrat rosters. I'm sure there are some trying to subvert the media, project power via military flexing, and weaken institutions they see as a threat. I just can't think of their names. Lil help, Junge.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: From buddybook
Nov 20, 2018, 9:26 AM
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Nuts
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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NO, I'm posting my asz off in the P&R bored to stop it.***
Nov 20, 2018, 9:44 AM
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CU Medallion [53233]
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Re: From buddybook
Nov 20, 2018, 9:44 AM
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Things like this are why I quit the spacebook. So many sheep.
I lost respect for so many friends. Much nicer when I don't know everyone's life story.
Folks are cray
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All-In [31888]
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I dislike Trump as much as the next guy, but what....
Nov 20, 2018, 9:50 AM
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what about his administration authoritarian in nature (meaning to the true definition of the term)?
While we're at it, one could make the case that he's done less "military flexing" than the last 5 administrations.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: I dislike Trump as much as the next guy, but what....
Nov 20, 2018, 10:03 AM
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That is one thing I have been pleased with Trump about......No needless wars. I hope he stays that course. He seems practical in that regard. As a private citizen he always bashed the Iraq war.
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All-In [31888]
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He was as equally FOS as a private citizen as he's been....
Nov 20, 2018, 10:09 AM
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in office.
Who can place any weight whatsoever on what he criticizes or agrees with at any given time?
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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He was full on erect about a military parade, until the
Nov 20, 2018, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to I dislike Trump as much as the next guy, but what.... ] |
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optics got bad enough that it finally got tabled (for now). Where else in the world do you see military parades?
And have you ever seen any leader in this country at such odds with the media? Is it really a leap in imagination to envision his desire to shut down all media that doesn't speak favorably of him?
What's the 3rd authoritarian trait? Weakening institutions that threaten power? That one probably doesn't even need explanation.
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Lot o points [155849]
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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Oh, were we celebrating a military victory?
Nov 20, 2018, 10:47 AM
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I'm pretty sure you can see the primary difference here.
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All-In [31888]
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That's not what authoritarian means...
Nov 20, 2018, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to He was full on erect about a military parade, until the ] |
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as stated below in another sub-thread, it means the government taking authority over the people at the expense of personal freedom.
I agree 100% on the media...it's dangerous...and I would never vote for the man based on his treatment/statements on the media, in addition to the other 1000's of reasons. He's not going to shut down the media (as much as he might like to).
But he's not expanding the government's power over the people, nor are there any signs that he wants to.
Do you have any more points on the military relative to past admins?...cause the parade one doesn't really hold up.
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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Would you argue that he's not trying to expand
Nov 20, 2018, 12:18 PM
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executive power relative to the other branches? Even if the nebulous "government control over the people" baseline remains the same, at least it's been divided relatively evenly for several hundred years. I'd say there's been pretty clear signs that he's tried and continues to try to usurp both the judicial and legislative branches by installing people to help lift him "above" the law is as much as it can be done, and executive orders of highly questionable intent (yes, I'm aware that other Presidents have used executive orders). That's what an authoritarian does.
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All-In [31888]
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no....I would say that his...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:30 PM
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predecessor used EO's (and just general implementation actions) to expand the power of the executive much more/further than Trump has. The first example that comes to mind is how the ACA was changed substantially by the Obama administration contrary to what was clearly written in the law.
And on the point of some of his EO's...I think many of them were well within his power as the POTUS and the judicial branch got it wrong (the travel ban is the first to come to mind here). Yet, I didn't see the administration ignoring the judicial branch and proceeding contrary to their ruling. Did you?
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All-In [42144]
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I don't get it...
Nov 20, 2018, 1:17 PM
[ in reply to That's not what authoritarian means... ] |
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You keep demanding examples of how Trump is eyeing authoritarianism, but then you acknowledge that his attitude towards the media is a dangerous step in that direction.
He hasn't achieved authoritarianism. He is attempting it.
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All-In [31888]
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No, I haven't said that at all...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:33 PM
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I said I think Trump's rhetoric towards the media is dangerous and worrisome, but I didn't say it had anything to do with authoritarianism.
Personally, I think it's all a political ploy.
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All-In [42144]
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All-In [34582]
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ahhhh, yes. Trump is Hilter....good one.
Nov 20, 2018, 11:29 AM
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If he is, he's doing it wrong.
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All-In [42144]
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Well, despite your posts not really warranting a serious...
Nov 20, 2018, 11:35 AM
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Response, I'll give you one.
That's the old cheap fallback you Trumpies use, and you do it intentionally to deflect.
"Oh no, you're saying Trump is Hitler! LOL"
No. No one is saying that. Hitler was quite unique in his own perspective.
What isn't unique is the idea that an authoritarian leader could emerge in any governmental scenario and try to take more control.
What, of course, gets overlooked is that many people by nature (usually weak-minded ones) crave an authoritarian demagogue whom they hope will force the will of their ideology on the populous. And, of course, give them an individual to worship. Weak people crave a strong hero.
So people like you have desired an authoritarian like Trump for some time because, if you were truly pressed on your beliefs, you would toss out much of our Constitution and what makes America incredible.
Thus, you fall back upon immediately claiming we're calling him Hitler so you can deflect attention from the real issue at hand.
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All-In [34582]
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You can call me all the names you want, but I dont worship
Nov 20, 2018, 12:04 PM
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anyone. You should type that horsesh*t with Obumma's name. Your hate makes you weak. You need to get help. Then turn in your guns to the Hitlercrats
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All-In [42144]
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You've worshipped him from day one. You know what you like.***
Nov 20, 2018, 1:13 PM
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All-In [31888]
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All-In [42144]
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You're smarter than that.
Nov 20, 2018, 1:12 PM
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Have a discussion. Drop the "I'm calling anyone a ###### if I don't like their posts" act. It's childish and you bring more to the table than that. Crash brings little to these discussion and deserved the following response.
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All-In [31888]
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Dude....
Nov 20, 2018, 2:38 PM
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this is pure douchee material:
"So people like you have desired an authoritarian like Trump for some time because, if you were truly pressed on your beliefs, you would toss out much of our Constitution and what makes America incredible."
If you're basing your claim on Crash's statements in here, then I must have missed them. You're going way off with baseless assertions. You brought up "weak-minded"...generalizing and baselessly assigning motives and beliefs is the calling card of the weak-minded and it appears to me that is exactly what you're doing here.
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All-In [42144]
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Re: Dude....
Nov 20, 2018, 2:41 PM
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If you're basing your claim on Crash's statements in here, then I must have missed them.
Apparently so.
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All-In [31888]
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*rolls eyes****
Nov 20, 2018, 2:43 PM
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All-In [31888]
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Sorry, but I think that's horse sheet...
Nov 20, 2018, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: I dislike Trump as much as the next guy, but what.... ] |
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authoritarian rule means being made to bow down to government authority at the expense of personal freedom. I don't see that happening now or heading in that direction in any way, in terms of federal government interaction with the citizens.
And yes, I too agree that this administration's treatment of the press has been horrible and worrisome. And the press feeds into it, to some extent, by some of the coverage Trump gets. It's a dangerous cycle right now...but I want to be clear that I believe the bulk of the blame rests on Trump.
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All-In [42144]
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Re: Sorry, but I think that's horse sheet...
Nov 20, 2018, 11:56 AM
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authoritarian rule means being made to bow down to government authority at the expense of personal freedom. I don't see that happening now or heading in that direction in any way, in terms of federal government interaction with the citizens.
Well, of course we aren't there. But I disagree that Trump isn't trying to point us in that direction. I think our country is too strong for him, though.
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All-In [31888]
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some policy examples?***
Nov 20, 2018, 12:01 PM
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All-In [42144]
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I already gave you one link.
Nov 20, 2018, 1:13 PM
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How many would you like?
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All-In [31888]
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That link provided no policy examples...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:42 PM
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of authoritarian government assailing individual liberty.
Not to mention it was an opinion piece, and a pretty weak one at that.
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All-In [42144]
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Re: That link provided no policy examples...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:50 PM
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It wasn't an opinion piece, and what was weak about it?
Here is another. It states what I'm arguing:
Has Trump instituted a new, “authoritarian” regime? No.
Is his Presidency profoundly authoritarian in its approach to the rhetoric and the enactment of political power? Yes.
This one is an opinion piece but gives more of an explanation.
http://www.publicseminar.org/2018/01/why-is-trumps-authoritarianism-so-hard-for-some-to-recognize/
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All-In [31888]
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So the repeal of DACA and the ACA repeal act...
Nov 20, 2018, 2:58 PM
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are the policy actions that illustrate authoritarianism?
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All-In [42144]
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Did you find that to be the thesis of the argument?
Nov 20, 2018, 3:17 PM
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Or did you just pick out two examples?
DACA, yes. Attempts to circumvent Congress on ACA and gut it with a stroke of a pen, yes.
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All-In [31888]
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Those were the policy positions I found in there, yes....
Nov 20, 2018, 3:45 PM
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So DACA was created with an EO and the reversal of the EO is somehow authoritarian? I would argue the exact opposite. The POTUS creating law with an EO because it was specifically NOT passed by Congress is authoritarian for sure. That's taking the will of the POTUS over the express will of the people with a power he is not granted by the Constitution.
The failed ACA Repeal Act referenced in the piece was a failed action BY Congress. Not a stroke of the pen by Trump. Now, there have been things done by the administration to limit the scope of the ACA and some of those actions might be suspect, but not out of the "norm" for Presidents and sure as heck not authoritarian.
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All-In [42144]
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I am increasingly astounded...
Nov 20, 2018, 11:30 AM
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At the casual and implied calls for violent uprising against people of a different political affiliation. We're seeing more and more hints from the fringe right that we need some type of civil war to eradicate opposing beliefs.
And make no mistake about it, that's what this adorable little meme is.
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Oculus Spirit [93661]
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If antifa made a meme you'd condemn the movement?***
Nov 20, 2018, 11:39 AM
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All-In [42144]
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I bet their memes probably suck.
Nov 20, 2018, 11:42 AM
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Probably not a lot of humor.
But yeah, if their meme insinuated we need some sort of violent uprising against political opposition, yes, I would.
Why do you constantly employ tu quoque with me?
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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All-In [42144]
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"We" as in you?
Nov 20, 2018, 11:46 AM
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I don't consider you fringe right. I'm talking about nut jobs. Extremists.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Nah, we as in me and you...I'm not seeing all of these
Nov 20, 2018, 11:51 AM
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right wing extremists that are supposedly on the rise. But I do see an environment developing that will be ripe for them to thrive if democrats continue doubling down on their marginalization of a large segment of the population.
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All-In [42144]
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Re: Nah, we as in me and you...I'm not seeing all of these
Nov 20, 2018, 11:57 AM
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I've seen/heard several Trumpies hint at civil war or even flat out call for it. At least two on this board.
But I do see an environment developing that will be ripe for them to thrive if democrats continue doubling down on their marginalization of a large segment of the population.
I agree... Dems need to make a move back to the middle.
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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I guess it's pretty neat....if you don't look into it any
Nov 20, 2018, 12:29 PM
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further whatsoever....
18 out of 34 homicides last year, a jump from a whopping 9 in 2016.... IT'S OUT OF CONTROL!!!!
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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Sorry, was merely addressing your sentiment
Nov 20, 2018, 1:38 PM
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that the "left" seems so much more violent than the "right", anecdotally. At least I learned that ideological murder is fine, as long as it's on a small scale. Unless the left does it.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Kind of seems like you were trying to imply some sort of
Nov 20, 2018, 2:08 PM
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rampant right wing extremism with your little graphic, that inference just unfortunately kind of falls apart when you look into things a little deeper.
I mean, I haven't heard of sitting Republicans calling for "confrontations" with people who have opposing views.
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All-In [49035]
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Campaign Trump doesn't count by your label
Nov 20, 2018, 2:16 PM
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"sitting Republican" since he encouraged his supporters to violence on the campaign trail. Is that by design?
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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It's a pretty far stretch to say Trump "encouraged violence"
Nov 20, 2018, 2:31 PM
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Particularly given the context of some of the quotes, but I know the trend is to take everything he says to the extreme.
But this kind of talk is clearly on another level:
“You think we’re rallying now? You ain’t seen nothing yet,” Waters said at the event, according to a HuffPost report. “Already you have members of your Cabinet that are being booed out of restaurants ... protesters taking up at their house saying ‘no peace, no sleep.’”
“If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere,” she added.
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Heisman Winner [137880]
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This is the most homerish thing I think I've read in the P&R
Nov 20, 2018, 2:51 PM
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forum. You really can't acknowledge that Trump's DIRECT QUOTES at rallies encouraging violence, aren't actually encouraging violence, and it's the media that's just taking things to the extreme.
I provided examples of extremism that leads to violence and murder, which occurs primarily and almost exclusively on the right (Islamists and Christians get their fair share too), and you dismiss it as too statistically small to count. But in your opinion, the left is unhinged and violent.
Weird thing you got going on there.
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All-In [49035]
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Oculus Spirit [81054]
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So is he a liar, or not?
Nov 21, 2018, 12:06 PM
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Its continually posted in here that Trump is a pathological liar and stupid.
But you choose to believe him on that statement?
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Heisman Winner [111528]
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Re: Kind of seems like you were trying to imply some sort of
Nov 20, 2018, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to Kind of seems like you were trying to imply some sort of ] |
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rampant right wing extremism with your little graphic, that inference just unfortunately kind of falls apart when you look into things a little deeper.
look into things a little deeper, as in how?, providing another anecdote?
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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As in, looking at the actual numbers***
Nov 20, 2018, 2:23 PM
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Heisman Winner [111528]
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Re: As in, looking at the actual numbers***
Nov 20, 2018, 2:26 PM
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then please post the actual numbers.
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Oculus Spirit [79428]
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Heisman Winner [111528]
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Re: 18 out of 34 homicides last year, and 9 the year before
Nov 20, 2018, 4:07 PM
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white supremacists are just a small sect of far right extremists, and only responsible for a portion of far right violence. You are smart enough to understand that you can not take data from a subset, get the answer you want, and call it "digging deeper"?
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All-In [42144]
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Heisman Winner [111528]
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Re: Do these count?
Nov 20, 2018, 4:18 PM
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no, because they are not all white supremacists, and ONLY white supremacists commit far right hate crime.
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All-In [31888]
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Oculus Spirit [81054]
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facebook...lol***
Nov 20, 2018, 1:45 PM
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