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Enthusiast [142]
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What other program would you rather have?
Sep 22, 2014, 1:20 PM
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When Clemson loses, it seems there are a lot of sweeping declarations about toughness, leadership, and general competency that are made. While some of this can be attributed to outrageous anger directed at 18-22 yr old young men playing a game (how dare they!), some of it must come from a longing or need for something better.
Admittedly, I rarely post at all, but my question is this: since Chad got here (2011), what other program would you rather have? If we accept that Clemson is not successful, then who has been?
With the exception of Alabama, pretty much every other college program over that time period has seen loses and inconsistencies? Lets look by conference:
Pac 12: Oregon always loses one or two games to kill their season. Stanford has won the conference the last two years, but just lost to a mediocre USC team and is poised for a rough season. Stanford also lost the Rose Bowl last year (a high profile loss if there ever was one).
Big 10: Maybe Michigan State, but they were 7-6 two years ago. If Clemson lost 6 games, half of y'all would light something on fire!
ACC: FSU has an argument, but I think it's clear by now the values and discipline of the FSU program are in stark contrast to Clemson's. But if you'd rather have Mr. Winston has a QB, you are welcome to it.
Big 12: Baylor or OU are probably tops. Of course, Baylor won the conference last year, but they also lost 5 games in 2012. OU loses about 2 or 3 games every year (though they look great this year so far).
SEC: Other than Bama (which I hope we all agree is the top program in the country), who'd you rather be from 2011-now? CU beat LSU two years ago, and they just lost to Miss St. Georgia lost to us last year, just lost to USC this year, and hasn't won the conference in a long time. USC lost to A&M this year, and lost at Tennessee last year--and has never won the conference it plays in. Auburn went 3-9 in 2012.
I may be missing someone, but gosh almighty, it seems like we are a pretty great program, no? In fact, I hope I have shown, over the last 3 to 4 years, Clemson football has been one of the most elite programs in the country.
Nothing wrong with being upset when you're emotionally invested, but lets pump the brakes. Dabo is a very good coach. Chad is a very coordinator. Brent is a very good coordinator. Clemson has lost 6 games in 3 years...if that is to much for you, who else would you want to support?
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Legend [18499]
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If I can't have Clemson, I'd rather have USC.
Sep 22, 2014, 1:22 PM
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Those California girls are good looking ! 
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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Good post.***
Sep 22, 2014, 1:24 PM
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Enthusiast [142]
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Re: Good post.***
Sep 22, 2014, 4:43 PM
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thank you
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CU Medallion [60202]
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good post - I have asked the same question before here
Sep 22, 2014, 1:25 PM
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what program would you exchange places with? Swap players, coaches, etc. with Clemson, straight up. Of course you have to also take the off-field stuff, reputation and integrity of that program also.
Not many out there that come to mind.
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CU Guru [1639]
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Re: good post - I have asked the same question before here
Sep 22, 2014, 1:29 PM
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when you ask someone who do they want as head coach or coordinator they never have an answer.
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1st Rounder [629]
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If everything is and has been so wonderful, why
Sep 22, 2014, 1:35 PM
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do we totally lack credibility outside the Clemson fanbase?
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All-In [30593]
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exactly... the whole cfb thinks the coots are
Sep 22, 2014, 1:42 PM
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helpless
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Hall of Famer [24159]
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Orange Blooded [2232]
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Ring of Honor [26353]
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Shweet
Sep 22, 2014, 1:31 PM
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I get the best of both worlds also being a Bama fan
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Rock Defender [51]
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Re: What other program would you rather have?
Sep 22, 2014, 1:43 PM
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Great Post! I don't post alot either; mostly because it is futile to get into a yelling match via the internet with people that just want to complain.
As hard as last Sat. night was, I agree that we have one of the most well respected programs in the country right now and I love the direction we are heading.
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All-In [39020]
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Clemson is literally a national joke.
Sep 22, 2014, 1:51 PM
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See: Clemsoning.
Nobody respects us nationally because...well, why should they?
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Enthusiast [142]
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Re: Clemson is literally a national joke.
Sep 22, 2014, 1:55 PM
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Not to be argumentative, but what makes you say this? I mean "a national joke" is quite a statement! I think it's safe to assume most people in the country don't even know what town or state Clemson is even in, much less the quality of its football team, but I digress.
Do you do a lot of national travel where various persons from across America are insulting the track-record of the Clemson football program?
Statements such as this are what I am trying to point out: if Clemson is a "national joke," who are "national success stories"?
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All-In [39020]
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The fact that media and fans around the country use
Sep 22, 2014, 1:59 PM
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our school's proud (?) name as shorthand for demoralizing, embarrassing defeats.
And yes, a lot of people don't know who Clemson is. I'm not sure how that makes you feel better, but I'm glad it works.
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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All-In [39020]
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LSU and Ohio State aren't losing any sleep over Clemson.
Sep 22, 2014, 2:01 PM
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They lost a couple of exhibition games, big whoop.
UGA is thinking we're a lot softer than South Carolina.
Virginia Tech is still thinking about the Horseshoe as far as I can tell.
And Spurrier is thinking he can't wait until November for another gimme against the JV coaching squad in the upstate.
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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lol.***
Sep 22, 2014, 2:28 PM
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That doesn't even make sense.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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Orange Blooded [4504]
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Does his ever?***
Sep 23, 2014, 11:48 PM
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Orange Blooded [2929]
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Re: Clemson is literally a national joke.
Sep 22, 2014, 1:56 PM
[ in reply to Clemson is literally a national joke. ] |
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Clemsoning = beating LSU and Ohio State and finishing top 10 2 straight years
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CU Medallion [60202]
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Clemson is very well respected by the people who matter
Sep 22, 2014, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Clemson is literally a national joke. ] |
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if you listen to Chickens, trolls, and loudmouth media hacks who like to hear themselves talk, you would think the way you do.
But for the ones who truly know and study the game, they all agree that Clemson is a quality program that is not going anywhere any time soon.
I would suggest you pick who/what you listen to a bit better.
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All-In [39020]
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It's everywhere.
Sep 22, 2014, 2:03 PM
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Nobody will care or notice when we beat crappy UNC, NC State and Syracuse teams. All MOST people will remember about this Clemson season is pissing ourselves at UGA and FSU.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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All-In [39020]
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Sick burn.***
Sep 22, 2014, 2:04 PM
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All-Conference [421]
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Define us
Sep 22, 2014, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to Clemson is literally a national joke. ] |
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I'm pretty sure a real Clemson fan doesn't call his team a national joke. You are a disgrace to this university and if I knew you I would make sure that you never step foot in DV.
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All-In [39020]
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It's true whether I want it to be or not.
Sep 22, 2014, 2:14 PM
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A real Clemson fan, IMO, wouldn't paper over the truth to soothe their own ego.
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Enthusiast [142]
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Re: It's true whether I want it to be or not.
Sep 22, 2014, 2:50 PM
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Honestly, what is the truth? I'm trying to figure this out. If you can, fill in the blank:
"Compared to ______'s football program, Clemson is a joke"
I am interested in your perspective.
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All-In [39020]
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It's not a direct comparison to another program.
Sep 22, 2014, 2:55 PM
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Clemson-ing is a slang term for embarrassing defeat. Clemson is the team that falls on their face when they're in the national spotlight. That's the national perception of Clemson. A program to laugh at a couple of times a year when they have an opportunity. A joke.
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Zealot [763]
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How the #### does this dude have a 100% pulse?
Sep 22, 2014, 3:02 PM
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It works both ways. You can't discredit the wins and only discuss the losses. Clemson, like almost every program every year, will win a few big games a lose one or two big games.
Do you watch college football? You act like other programs are going undefeated year in and year out.
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All-In [39020]
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Basically grandfathered in.
Sep 22, 2014, 4:53 PM
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Most of my points are from the pre-thumb down days. Considering most of them came from the lounge and I was a hard core leftist, you can adjust my pulse to around 50% if it makes you feel better.
Everyone loses games, Clemson has become known nationally for losing them in painful, embarrassing fashion, and has become a national punchline because of it.
It's one thing to ignore it, or disagree with it, it's another to stomp your foot and deny reality so you can sling #### at another Clemson fan making an observation.
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Follower [295]
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Re: How the #### does this dude have a 100% pulse?
Sep 23, 2014, 8:07 PM
[ in reply to How the #### does this dude have a 100% pulse? ] |
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> It works both ways. You can't discredit the wins and
> only discuss the losses.
LOL, South Carolina vs. Tennessee, 2013 says "hello" to all of Tigernet.
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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* Except when they win the Orange Bowl. Or beat LSU in the
Sep 22, 2014, 3:03 PM
[ in reply to It's not a direct comparison to another program. ] |
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Peach Bowl. Or win the ACC Title. Or beat UGA in the spotlight game of the opening weekend in 2013. Or.....
I get it, you're mad, but you need to take a step back. Trust me, Clemson is held in high regard nationally, regardless of a story a blogger dug up from 6-7 years ago.
Remember, leaders don't panic. Our coaches aren't panicking. Our players aren't panicking. Our AD isn't panicking. You sound like you might be panicking.
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Enthusiast [142]
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Re: It's not a direct comparison to another program.
Sep 22, 2014, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to It's not a direct comparison to another program. ] |
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I understand Clemson-ing (trust me, I attended far too many of those games), but wasn't that designation created under the Bowden era. In fact, isn't "Clemsoning" meant as a catastrophic loss to a lesser opponent after a big win..I mean, inherently, that means you're winning some big games, right?
It's safe to say, unless you count the Orange Bowl vs WVU, the Tigers haven't "Clemson"'d in some time--certainly not in recent memory.
While we can argue about the ubiquity of that term or the media's bias against our program, at the end of it all, results are all that matters--and aren't are results pretty good (if not great)?
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All-In [39020]
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It would seem they're good enough for most Clemson fans.
Sep 22, 2014, 5:00 PM
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That's depressing for fans like myself, who think Clemson has every tool necessary to be an elite program.
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All-TigerNet [12505]
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A true Clemson fan doesn't question another CU fan
Sep 22, 2014, 2:40 PM
[ in reply to Define us ] |
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Just because he's not happy with where things stand. America's foreign policy is a joke right now. Did saying that make me unpatriotic?
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Heisman Winner [139826]
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^ more panic***
Sep 22, 2014, 3:04 PM
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CU Guru [1134]
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A hack writer trying to be cute does not make us a national
Sep 22, 2014, 3:38 PM
[ in reply to Clemson is literally a national joke. ] |
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joke. I am very proud of what Dabo has done ON and OFF the field in the last six years. If this viewed as a joke by some writer who has likely never been to Clemson, than so be it.
Greg Doyle, (yall know I mean) used to give us all kind of grief under the CTB era. This is his article today.
http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/24720511/latest-jameis-winston-chapter-paints-humiliating-picture-of-florida-state
Tell me who he thinks is the national joke now. This time I happen to agree with him. FSU has sold their soul, if they ever had one.
UNCheat is another national joke. I will take "Clemsoning" all day long over 20 years of systematic academic fraud.
It is funny I thought that term would go away once we quit losing to inferior teams like we did under CTB. Instead, they just changed the definition. I guess the latest definition is losing on the road, in OT, to the number 1 team in the country, with a freshman QB. Yeah, we blew it. I am mad we blew it, but not embarrassed, just mad.
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All-In [39020]
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Doyle is still a moron.
Sep 22, 2014, 5:01 PM
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And that hack blogger didn't invent, nor popularize the term. It is around, it has been around, and it will CONTINUE to be around so long as we step on our own ##### when we're on the national stage.
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All-Conference [435]
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That term will be around
Sep 23, 2014, 10:18 AM
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as long as there are sportswriters with a deadline to meet. It's a convenient literary device of sorts. As has been mentioned, Clemson hasn't "Clemsoned" in years and is around .500 in big games on the national stage. Even if the Tigers run through a whole season undefeated, the next time they lose a game some hack will write a Clemsoning piece. We can't win and it's all Tommy's fault.
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Trainer [25]
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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everything you say is true, but I must admit, Clemson seems
Sep 22, 2014, 5:08 PM
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be a football team that just goes out of its way to shoot itself in the head in games. Granted, it was #1 Florida State, at Florida State, but all you have to do is not snap the ball over the QB's head and you've got 3 points. Then just don't fumble the ball away with a minute left you win with a chip-shot field goal. Maybe other teams routinely do stuff like that, but I just don't recall it. Georgia maybe, but Richt is about to get run out of town.
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Oculus Spirit [82948]
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Stanford did some similar things against SC this year
Sep 22, 2014, 5:11 PM
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and lost, but at least when they got stopped on 4th and short in the red zone, their QB lined up under center.
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All-Conference [435]
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All-In [39020]
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I don't want another program, I want Clemson to succeed.
Sep 22, 2014, 5:12 PM
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This makes me a downer and a terrible fan, I know, but it's the truth.
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Legend [16629]
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THAT does not make you a downer and a terrible fan.
Sep 22, 2014, 5:14 PM
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However, when you continually proclaim that the season is over in September and that there is nothing meaningful left for which to play, that's when I start questioning what's going on in that mind of yours.
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Enthusiast [142]
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All-In [39020]
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Insert any program that has won its division, conference or
Sep 23, 2014, 7:17 PM
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main rivalry game in the last three years.
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Oculus Spirit [93582]
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Trainer [25]
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Hall of Famer [24632]
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+1. 489 should check his panties....***
Oct 3, 2014, 9:56 AM
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Very nice, well thought out, post.
Sep 23, 2014, 11:40 PM
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Bottom line...the results are measured on the field of play. It's not in the mind or perception of some writers pen or keyboard. Don't let anyone steal your experiences.
I started sliding down the grass hill under the tree in the SW corner of the stadium when i was eight years old. I was a senior in high school when the Tigers ran the table in 1981. Both are unforgettable memories that i will cherish as long as i walk this earth.
Each year since I have felt different levels of disappointment as Clemson 'fell short' in some way or another to my selfish expectations. I truly love everything in and around Clemson football. The older I get, the more convinced of that I am. So while I understand some posters disappointment and frustration, I also understand 'lightning in a bottle' is rare. NC State during the Danny Ford years taught me that.
So....love the Tigers....hate the Gamecocks....and hold on.....lighting may yet strike twice in the same place.
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Rooter [221]
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Re: What other program would you rather have?
Sep 25, 2014, 5:00 AM
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There is no other program I would swap clemson for
PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Enthusiast [142]
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Re: What other program would you rather have?
Oct 3, 2014, 9:27 AM
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With Oregon's loss last night, figured I'd move this back to the top.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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sorry, this is one of those ?able posts where we're asked
Oct 3, 2014, 11:45 AM
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to choose something different because we want what we have to be better. it doesn't or shouldn't have to be all or nothing; there are other reasonable alternatives to be considered prior.
first, i don't consider clemson as "not successful", i consider clemson to have left meat on the bone, most certainly in the last game vs fswho and the two prior vs scar. those are disturbing losses to some and have become more the norm for the media to latch onto when discussing clemson[unfairly or not]; 6 turnovers & 7 for 17 seem to be symptomatic. sometimes the issues lay just below the surface and aren't exposed by "lesser/unranked" competition, but when faced with adversity or the stress of the moment the waters recede and there they are.
make no mistake, the wins are fantastic; i couldn't be happier that some of the "inexplicables" that carried over from bowden have seemingly been put behind this team, but:
we have lost 8[5 with chad] in a row to the 2 teams on clemson's schedule that hold the key[for the most] to 60% of clemson's stated goals.
0-8 is no bueno and with the playoff looming clemson will continue to be on the outside looking in if the team can't manage 50% of those games. is it too much to ask based on the millions of dollars being poured in to facilities, supports staff and the ancillary facets of the program that clemson hold serve 50/50? #3 losing to #5 on gameday, 51-14, is not good...
with all of clemson's tangibles & intangibles, how often should clemson play for the acc championship/win the division?
how often should we expect clemson to be included in the playoff?
how often should clemson beat their ranked rival?
do you really believe usuck will not go out and find another highly paid hc & staff now that spurrier has got the program to another level?
what are our expectations based on what we know, how much the university has invested and realistic vision for the program?
if the current staff isn't meeting those, what's left?
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110%er [7390]
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"In fact, I hope I have shown, over the last 3 to 4 years, C
Oct 3, 2014, 12:11 PM
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lemson football has been one of the most elite programs in the country."
Losing 51-14 at home kinda eliminates you from that argument.
Finally beating LSU was nice, however.
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50
