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YOUR BALANCE
It’s going to happen like it or not
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It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 11:30 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2810445-college-footballs-influential-voices-ready-to-discuss-8-team-playoff-format.amp.html

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Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:33 AM

basically the end of the golden age of college football once this happens.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:38 AM

It won’t diminish the OOC schedule because teams will be playing for at large bids and seeding in the playoffs.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:41 AM

When there’s no incentive to play a hard schedule then big OOC games will absolutely go away and we’ll have idiots like you to thank

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Why would there be less incentive to play harder games?


Dec 14, 2018, 11:42 AM

What metric is changing that would cause that to change from it's current status?

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In an 8 team playoff


Dec 14, 2018, 11:45 AM

All P5 conf champs will get in. So you can play 4 sisters of the poor and go 6-2 in conference and make the playoff. Which will be great entertainment

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That is one way to look at it


Dec 14, 2018, 11:47 AM

The other is you can afford to go out and play big time teams because you know OOC losses don't knock you out of consideration.

I see no reason (especially if you make seeding carry a higher weight/advantage) that teams would choose to decrease the number of big game matchups as compared to what they currently play.

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That won’t be how top coaches will look at it


Dec 14, 2018, 11:51 AM

They’ll see it as taking unnecessary risks. Look at Bama. Saban knows if he goes 11-1 playing a joke nonconference schedule under the current format, he’ll get in. When you open it up to more teams, do you think that mindset is going to flip on it’s head? I’d hope you don’t.

But let’s give up the cool OOC games like UGA, Auburn, A&M so UCF and Washington can make the playoff and get boat raced by an actual good team.

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Re: That won’t be how top coaches will look at it


Dec 14, 2018, 11:54 AM

The issue with Bama's OOC schedule is that very few teams are willing to play them OOC. In the past Saban has pushed for playing only P5 opponents for their OOC games.

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Re: That won’t be how top coaches will look at it


Dec 14, 2018, 12:29 PM

That's not true with Bama. They refuse to play a home and home series with at P5 opponent. They will play them at a neutral site but when was that last time Bama has played someone from the P5 on a home and home series? Just like Florida hasn't played a non conference P5 school out of the state of Florida in like over 30 years. This teams not willing to play Bama is BS. There's been plenty that end up playing them in neutral sites. The last time we did was 2008.

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But , right now


Dec 14, 2018, 12:06 PM [ in reply to That won’t be how top coaches will look at it ]

If Bama goes 11-1 and wins their conference they get in. That doesn't change, and there's no reason to think suddenly Saban is going to play any different OOC schedule.

Right now, in fact, it is a bigger risk for them to play a bigger OOC opponent as the loss may remove them from consideration. However in a "win your conference and you are in" system they can only IMPROVE their seeding by playing tougher OOC opponents. That seems more likely to incentivize toughter OOC games.

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Saban isn’t scared of losing the OOC games


Dec 14, 2018, 12:13 PM

He just knows he doesn’t need the OOC wins to get in.

So essentially what you’re trying to sell me on, and what you’ve already sold yourselves on, is that there will be bigger OOC games when SOS means less than it does now. The main point the 8 team advocates are propping their argument up with is a OOC loss doesn’t hurt them as much but what you’re not mentioning is the OOC wins don’t help as much either except *maybe* for seeding once they make it into the playoff

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I'm actually not trying to "sell you" on anything


Dec 14, 2018, 12:19 PM

You made an assertion as fact that the proposed 8 team field would kill strong OOC schedules. Folks are merely pointing out that any potential change in thinking of coaches is counterbalanced by other factors which you seem to entirely dismiss with a wave of your hand.

You seem stuck on your belief that there would no incentive for them to play stronger OOC games, so folks have merely pointed out potential incentives available in an 8 team field.

I see little real difference for the Bamas of the world in either system. In a 4 team field OOC games seemingly help a bit more in wins, and hurt a lot more in losses. In an 8 team field OOC games seemingly help a bit less in wins, and hurt a loss less in losses.

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We’re one of the Bama’s of the world now


Dec 14, 2018, 12:26 PM

So how does this system benefit Clemson? The negatives seem to outweigh the positives.

Not to mention there’s been no significant talk of taking away a regular season game so these guys will basically be playing an NFL schedule as “student athletes” and I think it’ll lead to more players sitting out as several agents have already said they’ll push their clients to sit.

So I’ve yet to be convinced that going to 8 teams will benefit CFB and more importantly benefit Clemson

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That's cool


Dec 14, 2018, 12:30 PM

I definitely think there are advantages and disadvantages for both college football and Clemson specifically in both systems. Where they rank and how we judge them may differ, but I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

I was only actively discussing your assertion that OOC schedules would definitively be hurt as I don't think that has to be the case.

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Re: We’re one of the Bama’s of the world now


Dec 14, 2018, 12:41 PM [ in reply to We’re one of the Bama’s of the world now ]

There is no signifant talk regarding anything.

You are correct though that the current four team playoff (and methodology) is perfect for the current iteration of Clemson football. If I care about Clemson and only Clemson and I just care about things from an entertainment position (it is exciting that if you lose a game then you are screwed I guess) only then I wouldnt change a thing either.

With that said, I'm in favor of an eight team playoff.

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I don't think that's fair...


Dec 14, 2018, 2:45 PM [ in reply to That won’t be how top coaches will look at it ]

maybe, maybe Alabama assumes they can run the SEC table or close to it and get in. But Georgia doesn't. Clemson probably does given our conference right now, but that can bite you in the ### if you screw up and lose to Pittsburgh one year.

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Re: In an 8 team playoff


Dec 14, 2018, 12:14 PM [ in reply to In an 8 team playoff ]

Nope. Champions will only be automatic qualifiers if they are ranked in the top 10 and have 2 or fewer losses. The conferences can also determine their own championship criteria. If you like a champion being decided by 12 old men in a smoke filled room then you sir are a babbling moron!

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Re: In an 8 team playoff


Dec 14, 2018, 12:20 PM

Thanks Jhop’s burner account. And you know this how?

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The champion is decided on the field.


Dec 14, 2018, 1:13 PM [ in reply to Re: In an 8 team playoff ]

Why should Ohio State get a second chance, or Georgia a third? College football delivers the best team as the champion more often than any other sport, hands down. You want to water that down so that UCF can get killed by Bama.

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I suppose the question would then be


Dec 14, 2018, 2:16 PM

Why should some teams get second chances and other teams not get second chances.

I tend to like concrete criteria existing to outline what a team MUST do to automatically get a shot at the title, and then folks can argue about the other teams getting invites. But I'd like, if possible, to remove the chance that a team can win every game and still not have a path to the title due to opinions.

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Then the G5 needs to become its own division.


Dec 14, 2018, 3:51 PM

And we need four mega conferences. Keep the playoff at four, autobirths to the conference champs. There are formats out there that would make it a de facto eight team playoff with one flex week.

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Because that's already been decided, huh? Quit pretending


Dec 14, 2018, 1:32 PM [ in reply to Re: In an 8 team playoff ]

that anything has been decided. At all. You have no idea what the rules would end up looking like.

The champion is currently decided on the field by the rules that everyone agreed to, so I don't get your complaint.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:49 AM [ in reply to Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

Pretty sure the committee would still determine seeding and at large teams based on metrics like SOS so you’re wrong.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:54 AM

So a 10-3 team that lost 2 OOC games is going to get seeded ahead of a 12-1 team who played 3 G5’s and an FCS and lost to a top 15 conference opponent then won their conference? Dream on

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:57 AM

No, but it's very possible that a 11-2 or 12-1 team gets seeded over a 12-1 or 13-0 conference champ with a weak SOS. FSU was undefeated in 2014 but was a 3 seed behind Bama and Oregon. Ohio State was not a conference champ in 2016 but was seeded ahead of a 1 loss Washington with a terrible OOC schedule.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 12:03 PM

In that scenario, there would have to be at least 5 teams that are between 13-0 and 12-1 because the on campus games would only be the first round where 1-4 would be at home.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 12:09 PM

But what if there were say 3 teams with 0-1 loss and the 4 seed was between an 11-2 conference champ and a 10-2 runner up? Wouldn't that mean the team with the better OOC SOS could potentially make it if their conference SOS's were in the same ballpark? Remember the committee has previously seeded a non champion Ohio State over a conference champ with the same number of losses because Washington had a terrible OOC schedule.

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 12:45 PM

Well in that scenario you’re assuming that the committee would place a higher value on SOS than the conference championship. Which there’s evidence on both sides of that argument (Ohio st like you said then OU over UGA this year) so really there’s no way to know what the committee will put the value on.

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Right, but teams would be vying for those 1st round games


Dec 14, 2018, 12:11 PM [ in reply to Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

The difference between #4 and #5 suddenly becomes potentially huge, and one would think anything that could be done to make that cut becomes much more important.

In your scenario above the 10-3 team LOST those OOC games so they may get some credit for playing them, but they don't get the credit they;d get for winning them. However, say they split them and they begin to reap (more fully) the benefit of a stronger OOC schedule.

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Not as big as the difference between #4 and #5 now.***


Dec 14, 2018, 1:16 PM



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True


Dec 14, 2018, 2:18 PM

But we were discussing the effect of an 8 team field on OOC scheduling.

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And I'm saying it's more important with a four team playoff.***


Dec 14, 2018, 3:48 PM



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What incentive did alabama have in playing luisville


Dec 14, 2018, 11:56 AM [ in reply to Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

$$$$

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Geville Tiger on Clemson football , "Dabo's only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Why on Earth would we schedule a TAMU, Auburn, UGA


Dec 14, 2018, 1:07 PM [ in reply to Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

type game and take on the increased injury risk etc, when winning the ACC gets you in? Sure, a team that isn't confident in their ability to win their conference might still play another team with the same dilemma, but Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, etc...have zero incentive to schedule OOC games.

College basketball teams battle for seeding...nobody gives a #### about regular season college basketball.

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$$$, seeding, fans interest, recruiting, publicity


Dec 14, 2018, 2:19 PM

Pretty much the exact same reasons that top teams do it now

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Seeding vs. needing that data point to be relevant


Dec 14, 2018, 3:48 PM

to have a better shot, or be able to overcome one loss.

It's going to happen, so let's wager. I'll bet that after the playoff expands, these early season showdowns, especially the neutral site games, either go away or feature second level teams. Instead of Alabama/USC, you'll get Cal/Ole Miss.

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I don't see OOC games necessarily suffering


Dec 14, 2018, 11:41 AM [ in reply to Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

Especially if you incentivize it by making seeding more advantageous (example: make first round at home of higher seeded team).

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Re: Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline


Dec 14, 2018, 11:53 AM [ in reply to Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

They’ll probably actually increase because now one loss isn’t going to kick you out of the playoffs.

Right now there is no big incentives for SEC teams to play OOC games.

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"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


I agree. Scheduling Clemson has been leaving them with a big L the last few years.***


Dec 14, 2018, 11:54 AM



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What big OOC games would we have missed out on this year?


Dec 14, 2018, 12:05 PM [ in reply to Death of important OOC games, attendance will decline ]

There were literally zero good OOC games this season. So if this is the death you're speaking of, then it's already dead.

Attendance will decline?? So we're just making irrational statements based on zero factional evidence to support our erroneous claims now huh?

Going to an 8 team playoff will fix the US economy.

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Games matter less = less fans show up.


Dec 14, 2018, 1:18 PM

It's pretty simple. Attendance has already declined in the playoff era.

And I'd say Clemson had a pretty #### good OOC game this year.

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Big 10 and Pac 12 have much to gain. ??***


Dec 14, 2018, 11:41 AM



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I'm not advocating for moving to 8 teams


Dec 14, 2018, 11:44 AM

But a good side effect is we would see some non-regional interconference matchups of top teams. As a football fan, that is a good side effect.

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The most influential voice on Tnet, GWP, says...


Dec 14, 2018, 11:45 AM

we don't need it. I'm a nobody but I agree.

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Whatever


Dec 14, 2018, 11:47 AM



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SEC already shot it down


Dec 14, 2018, 11:48 AM

What the BIG12 & BIG10 think doesn't matter.

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 11:57 AM

I don't doubt it will happen. My point is, it won't solve the problem. What happens when the number 9 and 10 teams start to complain? What happens when, given the ESECPN spin, the SEC gets 4 teams in the playoffs and are seeded to insure an SEC National Championship? You know that's going to happen. It's inevitable, given the manipulation we currently see in ranking all SEC teams in the preseason so that every victory they gain is viewed as somehow superior to every other team's victories. The only real solution is to realign the best 64 teams into 4 Power 5 Conferences and let the winner of each of those conferences have an automatic seat in the playoffs. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but if you aren't the best team in your Conference, you aren't the best team in the Country; by definition. Either regular season games matter or they don't. The more liberal influence we allow in this country, the less every day life matters; and the more we're inclined to "participation trophies" and special consideration for "extenuating circumstances." That ought not be. But then, that's my opinion. And I respect your right to be wrong if you choose to disagree. Go Tigers!

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 12:05 PM

You do what Walt said yesterday, limit the number of teams from any conference to 2 teams.

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Someone always complains


Dec 14, 2018, 12:14 PM [ in reply to Re: It’s going to happen like it or not ]

But the point in moving from 2 to 4 was to move that down the road to teams that have a weaker argument.

It may well be that 4 is fine, but the folks advocating for 8 teams are doing so with the idea that the argument becomes demonstrably weaker at that point as the weaknesses of #9 become clearer. And in return for that, teams begin to have a clearer, non-opinion based path to the CFP.

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Who was the best team in the country last year?


Dec 14, 2018, 12:49 PM [ in reply to Re: It’s going to happen like it or not ]

Did they win their conference?.... hmmmm


And the 9 and 10 teams wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to complain. They would have had a very straight forward way to not be left out of the playoffs. If they don't like it that they didn't get CHOSEN to be an "at large" team, well too bad, they should have won their conference and EARNED their way in. At the start of the season, every single P5 school would have an opportunity to earn their way to play for the title.... just like every single other athletic league in the USA from little league ping pong to the NFL.

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I thought for sure this was going to be about...


Dec 14, 2018, 12:01 PM

you getting banned.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Notice it's crybabies from the Big12 and B1G


Dec 14, 2018, 12:46 PM



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Re: Notice it's crybabies from the Big12 and B1G


Dec 14, 2018, 1:22 PM

Um, the Big 12 and the Big 10 were both better conferences than the ACC this year and the Big 12 champ got in...

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You're an even worse debater than you are a troll


Dec 14, 2018, 1:43 PM



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Re: You're an even worse debater than you are a troll


Dec 14, 2018, 2:38 PM

Ohio St. has won the #### thing and OU went to the wire with Georgia last year while we were barely competitive.

What do past years have anything to do with this year anyway?

Again, the Big 12 and Big 10 are both better football conferences and have more contenders than the ACC. So your statement that they should "create competitive programs" is asinine....

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Your statement that they are better conferences is just as


Dec 14, 2018, 2:50 PM



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Re: Your statement that they are better conferences is just as


Dec 14, 2018, 3:43 PM

What exactly did we achieve this season? Our highest ranked win is barely inside the top 20. Our conference championship game was played against a team who got blown off the field by UCF....a team you probably think is "unworthy".

See I don't like hating on Clemson but the delusion I keep seeing on this board makes me have to. I'm not saying we don't deserve a chance to play for the national championship, but to act like nobody outside the top 4 "belongs" is blind arrogance.

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I think those against expansion


Dec 14, 2018, 3:03 PM [ in reply to Re: You're an even worse debater than you are a troll ]

Are somewhat blinded by recency bias. We're a top top 2 team in the nation RIGHT NOW, why do we want 8 teams to have a chance?

Alabama and us. That's the only 2 teams in the nation right now that would be opposed to expansion.

In 5 years who knows which teams will be in the position we're in right now. Hopefully it's still us, but who knows.

If we are a 9-3 or 10-2 team fighting for a conference championship next year the expansion opposers will be sparse.

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Re: I think those against expansion


Dec 14, 2018, 3:44 PM

Our fanbase right now sounds like those morons from the SEC back in 2011 defending the Alabama/LSU national championship game.

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Everything makes sense when it's going in your favor***


Dec 14, 2018, 3:59 PM



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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 1:20 PM

Never again. Wait ‘til next year. It’s going to happen. I’m detecting a common theme.

I’d focus a little more on “right now”. Long range planning isn’t much use when the house is burning down right now.

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Why not just go full FCS and make it 24? With an 8 team


Dec 14, 2018, 1:22 PM

playoff we may lose one of the regular season games anyway. I don't think teams are ready to go to a potential 16 game season. They would have to end all the bowl tie-in crap too unless we want cfb in Feb. Fans can't afford to travel to the extra games. Coaches won't like not getting a month off. I just don't see a lot of upside but a lot of downside.

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 1:27 PM

Translation: These folks saw that after the regular season, conference championship games, pre ordered semifinals tickets and hotel and airfare, pre ordered championship tickets hotel and airfare and Christmas shopping, you still had $50 in your pocket and they want it.

This has not one #%$& thing to do with determining a worthy national champion. And if you think by expanding it they will let teams like UCF in when they go undefeated you have no idea who you’re dealing with.

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 2:38 PM

We already know the lineup that ESPN will be pumpin':

ACC Champ
B1G Champ
Big XII Champ
PAC12 Champ
SEC Champ
SEC Runner-up
SEC 2nd Runner-up
Notre Dame

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 2:43 PM

Well the fact is the SEC has more teams that can go out and beat the top teams from other conferences. Not sure why that is so hard for some of you to accept.

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Actually, it is highly unlikely that there will be expansion


Dec 14, 2018, 1:37 PM

money or not. There are some deeply entrenched AD's and conference execs that are still regretting that a playoff was started in the first place. Particularly in the Big 10 and Pac 12, there are those who would rather go back to the old bowl lineups.

Personally, I like it as is.

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IDK about the Pac-12 regretting it.


Dec 14, 2018, 3:53 PM

Oregon and Washington both got to play for a title they otherwise wouldn't have. Those conferences might not be happy with the outcomes of most of the games, but hey, play better.

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Re: It’s going to happen like it or not


Dec 14, 2018, 2:42 PM

Not for a while. Will be at least another 5 years

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Why do you even care?


Dec 14, 2018, 3:54 PM

Your coots will never make it even with a 100 team playoff.

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