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Orange Blooded [4416]
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a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 26, 2018, 12:26 PM
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I took the time to go back the last several seasons and looked at 3 things...
1. Clemsons previous season recruiting rankings (get ready to gouge your eyes out) 2. Clemsons projected preseason ACC finish 3. Clemsons ACTUAL ACC finish
YEAR---RECRUITING--PROJECTED--ACTUAL 2017-18---------9th-----------13th---------4-6 (approximate) 2016-17---------15th----------6th----------12th 2015-16---------14th----------11th---------7th 2014-15---------12th----------11th---------8th 2013-14---------14th----------14th---------6th 2012-13---------11th----------8th----------11th 2011-12---------11th----------7th----------7th
We can conclude from these statistics that actual coaching (not talking recruiting) Brownell exceeds expectations from the media/coaches. of 7 season, only twice have we not finished higher than predicted.
We can also conclude that recruiting MUST improve. The transfers have helped, and this years class is much better than past but we dont have a single class in the top 50 in the country
We also have won 10 conference games 16 times IN OUR HISTORY and Brownell has done it 3 times in his 8 seasons here.
This is not a defense of Coach Brownell, just taking a look at the numbers. Fire away
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Orange Blooded [2906]
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While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 12:34 PM
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Winning 10 conference games...we should probably also mention that we play 18 of those now....
Purnell and Barnes only had 16 conference games....while Ellis and others only had 14.
I think that 11 today would be equivalent to 10 in the 16 game system...(and I think we'll definitely get 11).
If we get 12, it would be like getting 10 in the 14 game years.
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Legend [18407]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 12:50 PM
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Not sure why someone would td this post. You have to take that into consideration. Perhaps instead of games won, percent won would be the better barometer.
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Orange Blooded [2906]
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Yes...
Feb 26, 2018, 1:00 PM
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Winning % is probably the stat to look at...just a little more work to find all that.
This team has had a great year...and if they win both games this week they would be among the best Clemson teams ever from a regular season standpoint.
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All-In [43439]
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Brownell has the best ACC winning percentage
Feb 26, 2018, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like... ] |
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in Clemson basketball history. That is a fair way to compare him to other Clemson coaches.
No, the ACC is not easier now than it was in other eras. If anything, it is much tougher. Conference expansion has added many strong basketball powers.
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Orange Blooded [4513]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like... ] |
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It's six 10-win ACC seasons overall.
Winning 10 games in a 14-game season is 0.714 winning percentage.
Matching that in a 16-game seasons would be 11.428 games won. Going 10-6 is 0.625 winning percentage.
Matching that in an 18-game season would require 12.857 game won. Going 10-8 is 0.556 winning percentage.
Going the other way, winning 10 games in an 18-game season is 0.556 winning percentage.
Matching that in a 16-game season is 8.88 games.
Matching that in a 14-game season is 7.77 games.
So yeah, winning ten games in a 14-game season is a bigger deal than winning 10 in a 16-game or 18-game season. And winning 10 in a 16-game season is a bigger deal than winning 10 in an 18-game season.
Incidentally, the ACC had 14-game conference schedule from the beginning (except may year 1, i.e. 1953/54 season). It dropped to 12-game regular seasons after SCAR dropped out until Ga Tech joined, so between 1971-72 season through 1978-79 season. It went back up to 14-game seasons until 1990-91 season, when it went to 16-game seasons. The 18-game season start in the 2012-13 season.
In ACC Play:
Clemson went 0-9 in the first season (1953-54), and 0-14 in the second season.
Clemson didn't have a winning season until 1963-64 (8-6).
Clemson's first 10-win (10-4) season was 1986-87 under Cliff Ellis and again in 1989-90 (10-4).
Not counting this year, Clemson ACC record is 473-796, a 0.373 winning percentage. The overall record prior to this year was 1284-1283-1, pretty much exactly 0.500.
Clemson went 10-6 in 2007-08 under Oliver Purnell.
Under Brad Brownell, three 10-win seasons were 2013-14 (10-8), 2015-16 (10-8), and this year (10-6 so far).
Before Oliver Purnell (1953-54 through 2002-03), Clemson had been at 0.500 or better only 9 times in ACC history. Clemson has gone 0.500 or better 9 time since then 2003-04 (Purnell, Brownell).
Purnell went .500 or better 4 times in 7 seasons. All were 16-game seasons.
Brownell has gone 0.500 or better 5 times in 8 seasons. The first two were 16-game seasons (in which we went 9-7 and 8-8). The rest have been 18-game seasons.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 3:11 PM
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One thing to note is that Purnell inherited a program that was .250 in ACC play under the previous coach.
Brownell inherited a program that had just reeled off three straight winning seasons in the ACC.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 4:37 PM
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Hey look Jhop no where to be found during the game magically shows up again to slide into some anti CBB comments.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 5:08 PM
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Sorry for applying context to the statistics.
Is there anything incorrect about my post?
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110%er [6680]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 5:25 PM
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Well the year before Shyatt went 5-11 in ACC play, OP came in and we went down to 3-13.
At least when Brownell came in we finished with the same conference record and won a game in the tourney.
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Orange Blooded [4513]
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Orange Blooded [2906]
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Never said he did....
Feb 27, 2018, 8:31 AM
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But his 9 win season in a 16 game schedule is the same as a 10 win season in a 18 game schedule.
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Freshman [-46]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like... ] |
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Why should we mention we play 18 conference games now opposed to 16 with Barnes and Purnell? Are Barnes and Purnell mentioned in the original post. Ok then
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110%er [5072]
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Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like...
Feb 26, 2018, 4:16 PM
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You seriously don't understand why it's fair to point out we're playing 18 conference games now instead of 14, or 16 when making a comment that the current coach has more 10 win seasons than any other coach?
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Orange Blooded [2906]
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Read the original post....
Feb 26, 2018, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: While supportive, I do think that anytime we mention stats like... ] |
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It clearly states that Brownell having 3 10 win seasons is historically important. And historically, the amount of games played to get to that 10 has changed. The original post makes a historical comparison...which implies bringing former coaches into the discussion. No one is out to get you or Brownell by mentioning that.
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CU Medallion [57908]
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Our current recruiting class is rated 8th in the ACC
Feb 26, 2018, 12:36 PM
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by rivals.
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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right. my rankings are based on previous year***
Feb 26, 2018, 12:39 PM
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CU Medallion [57908]
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I know, I was just adding where our incoming class
Feb 26, 2018, 12:53 PM
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stands what with all of the talk about how our recruiting is improving. It is improving - some - but we still have a ways to go. Transfers are, and I suspect will continue to be part of the recruiting picture for us, and they are not included in these rankings. Of course, transfers are a factor for many of our conference opponents as well.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: I know, I was just adding where our incoming class
Feb 26, 2018, 4:38 PM
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Transfers are a part of College recruiting for a lot of teams now not just us. It is just a part of the landscape now.
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CU Medallion [57908]
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Re: I know, I was just adding where our incoming class
Feb 26, 2018, 5:34 PM
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"Transfers are, and I suspect will continue to be part of the recruiting picture for us, and they are not included in these rankings. Of course, transfers are a factor for many of our conference opponents as well."
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Legend [18407]
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Re: a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 26, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Thanks for putting this together. Actual numbers do help. It starts with recruiting but I guess this doesn’t take into consideration the transfers.
To me, it comes back to what others have pointed out- what are the legit expectations and I would say if we can do what we’ve done this year and build on it then he’s doing a really good job.
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110%er [7200]
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Looks like we are riding a Bowden wave of stats in bball.
Feb 26, 2018, 12:50 PM
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I used to yearn for a chance to have a chance for Clemson to play in a football championship. Now I would be surprised if we did not win 10+ games very easy every year. Why can't basketball be like that? Fans should not settle for middle of the pack.
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All-TigerNet [12986]
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Brownell and Bowden are basically polar opposites***
Feb 26, 2018, 12:55 PM
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110%er [7200]
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Re: Brownell and Bowden are basically polar opposites***
Feb 26, 2018, 1:04 PM
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Maybe but I did not make a personal comparison. My comparison was more personnel. I should have listed years instead of names.
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All-TigerNet [12986]
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Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Looks like we are riding a Bowden wave of stats in bball. ] |
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comparable to football.
1) Fan support will always be far, far greater for football.
2) Similarly, more focus and more money will always go to football over basketball.
3) While Clemson didn't have a super rich tradition in football prior to Dabo, we did at least have a solid tradition, a national title, a great stadium, etc. Basketball had no tradition, no titles of ANY kind, and played in a dump with poor facilities (slowly being improved now).
4) While Clemson sits in the middle of a pretty fertile recruiting area for football, the same cannot be said for basketball. Rural areas produce many good football prospects, but basketball is a much, much more urban sport with the majority of major prospects coming from larger cities. Sure there's Atlanta down the road, and Atlanta does produce quite a few good basketball prospects, but that's not enough on it's own. The state of SC produces an elite basketball prospect like once every 5 years.
5) In line with the last point, I believe that more basketball recruits want to go to school in urban settings.
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110%er [7200]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 1:17 PM
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Basketball is a super fickle sport when it comes to recruiting. You are absolutely right about recruiting sc. Heck, it might change in bball if they can stop this money train and the top 100 aren't paid to wear adidas outfits. I know our bball boys work their azzes off on the court and would love to see them win something more than a game.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 2:02 PM
[ in reply to Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't ] |
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1) If Clemson became a basketball powerhouse that wouldn't be the case.
2) Of course. Where is that not the case?
3) Our tradition in football wasn't close to what our fanbase thought it was prior to Dabo.
4) That's why a coach like Purnell was a perfect fit and we followed him up with a guy that is nothing like him. Brownell's coaching ability means squat because he needs the players that Duke and UNC and plenty of other programs in between get before they consider Clemson.
5) The same can be said for football recruits.
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110%er [6680]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 2:21 PM
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1) What teams have all of the sudden became basketball powerhouses?
2) Umm...Basketball schools?
3) Our tradition in football was much, much greater than any bball tradition we have. Just because we weren't as good as we thought when Dabo took over doesn't mean we didn't have a solid tradition, and as the poster mentioned good stadiums, fan support, etc.
4) Purnell's system was good for beating bad teams, and having decent conference wins. It was not, however, good enough to beat top tier teams consistently and we went as far as we could with that system.
5) I'm not so sure about that, most kids from rural settings will go to a rural school, and vice versa. There is more basketball talent in urban areas than there is in rural areas.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 2:37 PM
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You're delusional....
Worse than a coot even.
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110%er [6680]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 2:41 PM
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Nice responses!
Do you think OP's leg is lonely without you humping it?
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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110%er [7718]
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 2:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't ] |
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1) None that had the attitude you have about their program
2) Football gets more money even at "basketball" schools, that's common sense
3) Actually, you could make the argument we were in a better spot when Brownell took over the basketball program than we were when Dabo took over football....
Recruiting was at an all time high and we were at least an NCAA team year in year out and also winning in the ACC in basketball. In football we had just been humiliated by Alabama to start the season and we lost a bunch of recruits when Bowden stepped down.
Nobody gives a rat's butt about titles won back when jean shorts were in style bro....coot logic.
4) Lol
5) ok
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All-TigerNet [14387]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 3:04 PM
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thanks for your input skeeter
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110%er [6680]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 5:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't ] |
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1) That doesn't make sense, I'm happy with our program and feel it is heading in the right direction. You, sir, seem to be the one upset with our program.
2) The point isn't who gets more money, of course football teams do, you have 8-10 times the number of kids on the team, not to mention more schollies, travel expenses for significantly more people, etc. That's common sense, but I can guarantee you that the ratio of Football to Basketball spending at Duke is less than it is at Clemson.
3) Actually, you're off by a year. Dabo took us to the ACCCG in 09 (OP's last year) so by your logic OP took us to one in 07-08 so they were at the worst on par with each other.
You keep harping on the recruiting was at an all time high but bro, we have stats to back up that those recruits were not as talented as their stars made them to be. Certainly not when they came into college. Again, Bowden stepped down in 08, Purnell the year after.
The football recruiting class after Purnell left consisted of Sammy Watkins, Tony Steward, and company. (Much better than any bball class we've ever had).
Nobody's talking about strictly titles, see the rest of the sentence or refer to the original list maker, or learn to read. Asshat.
4) Prove me wrong on this. You say "consistently win in the ACC," which means he went 9-7 three times and 10-6 once. It is finishing by a winning record, but only by one games difference which isn't exactly "spectacular." And then we have FIVE first round exits in the ACCT, three of those being when we finished 9-7 in the ACC. Finally, what was his tourney record again? Oh yeah, 0-3.
Like I said, great system and it worked for the most part. But let's not overstate that it was some grand system that made us a superpower in the college basketball world.
5) Ok
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 26, 2018, 3:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't ] |
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It's hilarious how you talk about Purnell's system "reaching it's ceiling" when he actually played for an ACC tournament title beating a top 10 Duke team on the way the championship and lost by 5 points to UNC who eventually won the national title.
Has Brownell ever even won an ACC tourney game?
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 26, 2018, 3:05 PM
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he is 3-7 in the acc tournament. I'm not saying thats good. But 3 of those 7 losses are to Duke (by less than 4 points) and UNC
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 26, 2018, 3:14 PM
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He won a play in game dude. If it wasn't for the NCAA expanding this year would be his first tourney appearance.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 26, 2018, 4:40 PM
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You dont know that.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 27, 2018, 7:59 AM
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Lol...wut?
He didn't make the field of 64. So yes I do know that.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 27, 2018, 8:50 AM
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Here kid Ill break it down for you since apparently, you are not very smart.
If the play in games didn't exist one of the teams from the play in games would have to fill slots in the NCAAT. You do not know which team they would have picked so guess what it is a FACT that you 100% do not know that.
You are a joke and a clown.
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All-TigerNet [14387]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 27, 2018, 8:53 AM
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and yet he is still here. he can say anything he wants about coach but if we dare to call him a coot or an idiot we get a tmail from above.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 27, 2018, 9:59 AM
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Sorry for living in reality.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: yes... and also a NCAA tourney game...
Feb 27, 2018, 10:24 AM
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lol so says the guy who doesn't understand that OP plateaued while at Clemson.
You're a clown Skeeter3.
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110%er [7718]
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 7:59 AM
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I'll take ridiculous talking points for $400 Alex.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 8:52 AM
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His final 4 seasons...
9-7 10-6 9-7 9-7
you were saying Skeeter3?
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 9:58 AM
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So because he was consistently winning 9-10 games in the ACC that means he never would have won more?
I'm ashamed that we pull for the same team.
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All-TigerNet [14387]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 10:00 AM
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funny thing is we do not pull for the same team. we have never pulled for the coots, unlike you mr skeeter.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't ] |
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Do you understand the definition of plateaued?
I am glad you don't have a degree from Clemson. I would feel bad if an idiot like you graduated from the same place as me.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 10:28 AM
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I guess we should have fired Dabo after his third straight 10-2 season in 2013.....
You know since he had plateaued and all.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 10:41 AM
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yes because 10-2 and winning Conference titles is the same as 9-7...
Also, link to me saying we should have fired OP. I'll be waiting.
You truly are a moron.
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Your ignorance is appalling. My point was not to compare what each did, my point was the win totals stayed the same, so Dabo much have reached his plateau right? Obviously he didn’t so it’s ridiculous to say that about Purnell simply because his win totals were consistent but not improving. Especially considering what he inherited.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Also, there are plenty of reasons why basketball here isn't
Feb 27, 2018, 12:59 PM
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So no link...
Cool keep spouting out bull ####.
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CU Guru [1367]
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Re: a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 26, 2018, 1:24 PM
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Just to clarify, that is recruiting rankings in terms of where we are ranked via recruiting when compared to the other teams in the ACC.
Correct?
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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yes all numbers are in ACC.***
Feb 26, 2018, 1:53 PM
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 26, 2018, 2:02 PM
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This reminds me of the coot a few weeks ago that was bragging to me about their offense moving into the top 100 in total offense last season.....
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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well, you remind me of a coot.... so theres that
Feb 26, 2018, 2:41 PM
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the fact that you wont even recognize the successes we have had this season tell me you are no fan. even the biggest brownell detractors have come on here saying they'll give him his due this year... but not you. i'll at least give you one thing, Jhop83® you are consistent... just consistently trollish
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Orange Blooded [4995]
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Re: well, you remind me of a coot.... so theres that
Feb 26, 2018, 2:47 PM
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Actually I've said plenty of good things about the basketball program this year. And I'm not a "detractor", I'm pulling for Brownell to succeed but I don't believe he was the man for the job. If he wins a couple games in the ACC and makes a sweet 16 run in the NCAA's this year I might change my mind.
In fact I've said I think he's a good "basketball" coach many times.
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Orange Blooded [4416]
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i've just looked at your post history and theres no evidence
Feb 26, 2018, 2:55 PM
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to back that up.
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Orange Blooded [2817]
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BB deserves more respect than garbage Clemson fans give him
Feb 26, 2018, 4:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: well, you remind me of a coot.... so theres that ] |
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I am tired of this debate. BB is not going anywhere. Unless another school who will gives him the respect he deserves offers him a job. With the massive scandal, BB could be in major demand because he does it the right way. The fans that are bitching about BB are the ones who don't pay attention to basketball until they lose a couple of games. The answer to a losing streak is not terminating the coach. I think the numbers that were posted on this thread show BB develops players and has built a solid program. He has been one of the more successful coaches in the country in the transfer market.
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110%er [7718]
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Re: well, you remind me of a coot.... so theres that
Feb 26, 2018, 4:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: well, you remind me of a coot.... so theres that ] |
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"I'm pulling for Brownell to succeed"
No you arent Skeeter3. You make that perfectly clear with your words everytime you come on here.
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Orange Blooded [4513]
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Re: a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 26, 2018, 2:52 PM
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As far as recruiting, I posted these before:
Using the ESPN site
2010 class, (1 signee) one 2* Cory Stanton 2* #81PG grade 85
2011 class, (5 signees) two ESPN 100, one 4*, three 3*, one 2* Bernard Sullivan 4* #22PF grade 92, KJ McDaniels 3* #35SF grade 91, Daniel Sapp 3* #46PG grade 89, Devin Coleman 3* #54SG grade 89, Rod Hall 2* #108PG grade 82
2012 class, (5 signees) one ESPN 100, one 4*, two 3*, two 2* Jaron Blossomgame (ESPN100) 4* #23SF grade 92, Landry Nnoko 3* #28C grade 89, Adonis Filer 3*, Jordan Roper 2* #29PG grade 88, Josh Smith 2* #34C grade 88
2013 class, (4 signees) two 3*, one 2* Austin Ajukwa 3* #26SG grade 78, Patrick Rooks 3* #28SG grade 78, Sidy Djitte 2* #43C grade 66, Ibrahim Djamo NR
2014 class, (2 signees) one 3*, one 2* Donte Granthm 3*, Gabe Devoe 2* #96SG grade 66
2015 class, (2 signees) one 4* Ty Hudson 4* #24PG grade 80, Legend Robertin NR
2016 class, (1 signee) one 3* Scott Spencer 3* #27SF grade 79
2017 class, (4 signees) three 4* Malik William 4* #26PF grade 82, Aamir Simms 4* #27PF grade 82, A.J. Oliver 4* #38SG grade 80, Clyde Trapp NR
2018 class, (lists 1 commit) one 4* John Newman 4* #42SF grade 80
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Legend [15492]
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Re: a close look at Brad Brownell and his coaching ability...
Feb 27, 2018, 11:58 AM
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You should be a politician.
You make mediocre look good.
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