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All-In [46801]
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The real story is being missed here
May 20, 2019, 9:12 AM
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https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/robert-f-smith-morehouse-college-class-of-2019-student-debt
400 students. 40 million dollars. If I mathed it right, that's an average of 100K per student in debt.
That is a nice starter house in most of the country.
That is 1.5-2 years salary if they didn't go into something stupid.
Why does college cost so much?
I was lucky enough to graduate before the ballooning of tuition. I went to undergrad for 4 years. Worked 20-30 hours a week at minimum wage and only had 6K in student loan debt when I left. I wouldn't have had that if I didn't lose my scholarship for a year. I wouldn't have had that if I was smart and went to tech for free for 2 years on my life scholarship before switching to a university.
Now a 4 year college degree will leave you with 100K in debt? Something is wrong.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: The real story is being missed here
May 20, 2019, 9:13 AM
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Why did we have to take so many meaningless classes as well?
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All-In [46801]
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Re: The real story is being missed here
May 20, 2019, 9:16 AM
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Heisman Winner [119590]
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$100k to go to Morehouse??
May 20, 2019, 9:14 AM
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Yikes
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All-In [34533]
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gubmint got involved***
May 20, 2019, 9:22 AM
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110%er [9174]
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And these Socialist want iron hand
May 20, 2019, 10:12 AM
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Government control of all life.
-DNT
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Oculus Spirit [78831]
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the real story is
May 20, 2019, 9:37 AM
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the student graduating without loan debt is probably getting nothing
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CU Medallion [59982]
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Re: the real story is
May 20, 2019, 1:48 PM
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wondering the same thing. are they getting checks for the average loan taken out? I mean if we are being fair and all, paying the responsible students should be applauded just as much.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: the real story is
May 20, 2019, 1:57 PM
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Debt is irresponsible? You must really hate Trump.
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CU Medallion [59982]
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Re: the real story is
May 20, 2019, 1:58 PM
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I didnt say that. I just said that responsible students that didnt take out a loan should be rewarded. You tell me where I said people who take out loans are irresponsible.
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All-In [31858]
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Morehouse web site says estimated cost of...
May 20, 2019, 9:49 AM
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attendance is ~$45k/year. That is insane.
Maybe I'm missing something, but a degree from Morehouse isn't worth ~$180k.
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All-In [46801]
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C Of C and CSU are the same
May 20, 2019, 10:05 AM
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ridiculous prices
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Problem is, they will charge as much as mkt allows
May 20, 2019, 9:55 AM
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It needs to start with jobs not requiring a 4 yr degree.
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All-In [42023]
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Short answer
May 20, 2019, 10:04 AM
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Student loans became a racket. The federal government stuck their hands in it and flubbed it up more, allowing them to become more of a racket. Then university administrations realized they could get filthy rich off of this racket, and they started jacking up tuition every year (and yes, Clemson admin-o-philes, our admin is huge offender in this arena).
Meanwhile, students are constantly told in K-12 that they MUST attend a four-year college, so they and their parents scramble to get them through college anyway they can.
Let the circle be unbroken.
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Legend [15730]
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To be fair to the University Administrators, what else can they do?
May 20, 2019, 10:36 AM
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If the government will loan any amount, at super-low rates, and guarantee it, what would they do? All universities are strivingbtongetbthe best faculty, do the most important research (which brings in revenue), and get the best students. If your University president says that they will keep fees low, keep salaries of professors low and not invest in research facilities, they risk becoming an after thought. Less quality faculty, less research and associated revenue, leading to less impressive student measurements and a vicious cycle downward.
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All-In [31858]
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I get that that is the conventional thought...
May 20, 2019, 10:58 AM
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but it that really true? I'm not sure either way.
However, the main role of a university (a state university especially) is to provide well-educated graduates, in large part to provide a work force for local/regional industry.
Having good facilities and good faculty is important (faculty over facilities in many cases IMO) but this race to have the best measurements mentality ultimately is impeding the main goal. NOw, the debt burden of many graduates is actually working to hurt growth in my industries and also makes recent graduates more apt to change jobs frequently in the search for minor salary bumps because of the financial pressure of the huge debt levels they're carrying.
I don't claim to be an expert in this area, but common sense sure seems to suggest that students could get the same education (maybe even better) for a lot less money if the priorities were refocused.
Compare the tuition Clemson grads paid in the early 90's to what grads pay now and I know the actual education/experience is not that many times higher. Now, the standard of living? That's a different story...and it isn't necessarily helping these kids either when they get smacked in the face with reality and have a lower standard of living once they start working than they did in college.
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Legend [15730]
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I’m no expert either, but I think many states, including SC,
May 20, 2019, 12:17 PM
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have significantly reduced their direct funding of public universities in favor of scholarships for in state students. That also contrived to increased tuition at public universities.
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All-In [31858]
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That's true and that happened some time back....
May 20, 2019, 1:59 PM
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if memory serves, but the tuition inflation continues. I think reduction in state funding was part of the problem, but to my understanding, not the reason it continues to increase now.
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All-In [42023]
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Re: To be fair to the University Administrators, what else can they do?
May 20, 2019, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to To be fair to the University Administrators, what else can they do? ] |
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But it's not the professors' salaries that are increasing. They have gone up slightly, but really, they've risen with the cost of living/inflation as they should.
Admin salaries have soared. And admin positions have increased as well. That's where the bulk of this increase is going.
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Legend [15730]
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I am not saying you are wrong...only that I had never seen that.
May 20, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Is there any data on this?
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All-In [42023]
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Re: I am not saying you are wrong...only that I had never seen that.
May 20, 2019, 2:11 PM
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I had a good NY Times analysis on this that I posted a little while back. As for Clemson, I did my own research on it, and it was pretty bad. Starting with the tuition increase spike in 2004, admin salaries started to climb steadily. Over one five year period, they went up $100 million. Nothing else at Clemson spiked that much with the tuition spike.
Clemson actually puts these numbers out online because they have to, but you have to do some compiling and adding to get the final numbers.
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Legend [15730]
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But I think a key question of that aggregate number is:
May 20, 2019, 2:17 PM
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“Did 100 administrators go from $x MM in salary to $x*100 MM in salary or did we go from 100 administrators to 200 administrators, leading to an extra $100 MM in salary?”
Both have their issues but what is administrators getting too greedy and the other is an organization getting too fat and too heavy. At least in the latter there may be some justification for value-add with the new positions.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Either way that's not so simple.
May 21, 2019, 11:30 AM
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It may be that the demand for a seat in a college class is inflated due to government funding being so loose. I believe that is fairly reasonable to consider.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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Be not deceived, God is not mocked.
May 20, 2019, 10:24 AM
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What ever a man sow he reaps. You don't pick maters off corn stalks and you don't get watermelons off grapevines. The 'kids,' as we call them are reaping what they sowed. I have a son who I begged to go to USuCk during his sr year at Clemson but he was all up a lawyer's butt who graduated from Charleston Law and decided to go there too. The boy is near getting his law degree now and is going to spend the rest of his life paying for it.
People buy chit every day they can't afford. Houses, new cars, credit this and credit that has foolish people in a modern type of slavery. You can't escape this from running away and going up north this time.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That's cheaper than the expense if the system that
May 20, 2019, 11:01 AM
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centralizes wealth and power into a few hands gets torn down.
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110%er [9646]
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out-of-state at Clemson is $216K for 4 years...***
May 20, 2019, 1:55 PM
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All-In [42023]
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Here's Clemson's increase...
May 20, 2019, 2:18 PM
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From 1996 to 2015 compared to the national average for in-state and out-of-state. The big spike, of course, was 2004 when Clemson fully launched into the quest to be a top 20 school.
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Oculus Spirit [97675]
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It can leave you in more than $100k in debt.
May 21, 2019, 10:55 AM
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College is quickly approaching the point of not being cost effective. The benefit of a college degree is to give you a boost as you enter the work force. It allows you to do skilled jobs that require a degree. It has benefits. It increases your starting point and opens up potentially more lucrative careers.
BUT, on average, you gain maybe $20K a year in higher salary coming out of college and starting a job versus some trade school or community college. That being said, other than at the beginning and helping you get a foot in the door, the real INCREASE in your salary over the years depends almost totally on how well you do your job, and not on the college degree.
I'm a history and political science major. My degree did absolutely NOTHING to get my foot in any doors, or lead me to where I am today. Other than having a degree on my resume, that's about it. I kind of created my own job really. Who you know, and how hard you work, and how well you do your job are MUCH more important throughout your career than your degree will ever be.
As for what I learned in college, it was meaningless. In the liberal arts, at least, college is an exercise in learning, and regurgitating what professors want to hear. As an employer, when I see a degree on a resume, I know they have the ability to learn. That's the biggest practical benefit. But the test throughout your career is how hard you're willing to work, how well you KEEP learning in your job, and how well you actually do your job.
Anyway, at $100K in debt, you've burned maybe 5 years of the bump in salary you get from having it as you enter the work force. Best thing to do, and it's what millenials are doing, is to live rent-free at home with your parents, and pay as much off as possible. But that level of debt is hard on anyone, making $100K a year to pay off, much less starting out in a career.
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Oculus Spirit [93609]
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In a sophomore economics we examined the medical degree...
May 21, 2019, 11:26 AM
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by using the time value of money and found that it takes between 7 to 10 years to 'catch up,' to where the average factory worker would be in economic terms.
With the change in pricing of higher education and kids graduating with a liberal arts degree now if they lacked the drive to achieve it might take them twice or three times that long to catch up. I'm in complete agreement with you about how economically ignorant some kids are toward their selection of a plan of study.
Your drive pulled you out of the fires of poverty, now parents are doing that. My mother often came to visit after my first child was born. She'd go straight to the kitchen and open the cabinets then make a list of things she wanted to buy to stock them. I tried to tell her we had a tight budget but we stuck with it very well and had no lack of need.
Eventually, I told her if she was going to insist on making me look less than a man by involving herself in my finances she would no longer be welcomed. This wasn't about my wife either. Wifie loved having grocery money left after mom filled her list. I set her straight to but it wasn't that simple.
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