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YOUR BALANCE
A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two
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A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 11:16 AM

at the end of the game. 50% of fans and commentators think it's bad and would rather go to overtime. I think barring some unusual circumstances, why would you ever go for the tie and give the other team a chance to win it in overtime? With the ball at the three yard line and you have the ball and the other team doesn't get a chance, why even it up? Some have said there was too much time left on the clock and it would give Clemson a chance to score again but that would still be the case whether UNC made or two or tied it up. Does anybody know the percentage of two point coversions that are successful?

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 11:17 AM

33%

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"You don't get control of the game when you're air-balling layups." - Brent Venables


Given the flow of the game, I would have done the same


Sep 30, 2019, 11:26 AM

thing if I was Mack Brown. His team was tired out, after giving all-out effort. I don't think they had anything left to give for overtime. Also, don't forget we had 1:39 and two timeouts left, even if they had taken the lead. I firmly believe we would have won the game 24-22, even if they had made the two point conversion. This probably also entered into Mack's thinking. If he was going to have to stop a last minute drive on our part, better to do it from the lead than from a tie.

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Re: Given the flow of the game, I would have done the same


Sep 30, 2019, 11:58 AM

Actually we would have had 1:17 and 2 timeouts left. But, for whatever reason, at this point in the game I trusted BV to stop them and TL16 et al to win it if we had to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWIiKLrcxh0

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According to Tim Bourett - only 1 of 14 2-point conversions


Jul 8, 2015, 12:52 AM

were successful against The Tigers in the Dabo-era before Saturday... (So, not good odds)

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It was dumb ... they were eating our lunch ...


Sep 30, 2019, 11:38 AM

and our kicker had already missed one.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 11:41 AM

I think the call to go for it was correct. Even though at home.

The play call not so much. But evidently they saw something they liked.

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It was the right call


Sep 30, 2019, 11:43 AM

We would have definitely won the game in overtime. Mack knew that we were inches away from having 3 or 4 more big plays, and we had shut them down most of the day.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 11:43 AM

Most of the people who are saying to kick the XP are saying so after the fact.

Of course it looks like they should have kicked now with the unknown of what would have happened in a tie game.

There are two general rules in football.

#1 Play for the win on the road and for the tie at home.

#2 The longer the game goes, it favors the more talented team.

Mack Brown opted to follow rule #2 which I think supersedes rule #1 when there is a wide margin in talent.

I believe he made the right choice at the time even though it didn't work out.

I do agree with the people who are saying that it was a bad play call. The play that hurt us the worst in short yardage during the game was crossing routes. I would have gone with what was working.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 11:48 AM

I don't know if Brown was aware of our success rate against the two point conversion attempt butI thought conventional wisdom was for the home team to go for the tie.

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I just looked at NCAA stats and it says 47.9% of two point


Sep 30, 2019, 12:07 PM

conversions are successful. That doesn't stack up to one in 14 against BV though!

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Go for the win at home and the tie on the road***


Sep 30, 2019, 11:52 AM



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Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.


If UNC had tied it or gone ahead, a decent KO return,


Sep 30, 2019, 12:05 PM

as Ngata had been getting, and a minute plus would have
given us a shot at getting in FG range or even to the end
zone, though Potter has been kind of iffy on field goals.
If the tables had been turned and we scored a TD that late
to pull within 1 point, I hope we would tie it up and take
our chances in overtime with more depth and talent available.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 12:07 PM

That was an exciting finish though .


Message was edited by: Tigerdug23®


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DB23


Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 12:07 PM

If Mack has 2 or 3 timeouts left I applaud his attempt at two .
However , he was totally out of them so his reluctance to tie the football game cost him the game from a strategic standpoint .

Getting an onside kick is really hard to do when they're expected .
In my humble , he shoulda went with tying it and hoped his defense had one more stop in them and he'd get another fair and square chance to win a home game against #1 .
As it is , he gambled and lost .

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DB23


Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 12:07 PM

5-0 and still alive for the show :)

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DB23


I see what you did there


Sep 30, 2019, 12:17 PM

with the triple post and the edits. Nice save.
The tug must have hit a big wave just as you were
posting lol.

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Re: I see what you did there


Sep 30, 2019, 1:21 PM

Lol , new phone + poor service area + steel hull w/small portals all conspired against me there :)

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DB23


Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 12:35 PM

It was absolutely the right call.

Why risk overtime when UNC couldn't move the ball on us all day. On the drives which they didn't score, they average 8.7 yards. They only had 4 drives of more than 5 plays and two of those were 30 yards or less. Six of their 12 drives they gained 5 yards or less. Their scores came on a big play (40 yard pass) and a turnover short field (with a 31 yard rush). Their final drive was 16 plays. They had to covert 2 third downs and 2 fourth downs to do that. Mack had to factor in that our D was likely tired.

What did Mack have to lose? He wasn't suppose to win the game anyway. If he scores, they potentially beat the #1 team in the nation giving him a HUGE recruiting tool. If they score and we go on to win, he can still say, "We took the #1 team to the wire." Now that they lost, they can still hold their heads high and claim "We're on the right path." The will beat GT and VT handily over the next couple of weeks and start garnering some attention to be in the top 25.

He kicks and ties the game, we go on to win. I have no doubt about it.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 1:29 PM

I think it was the right call. They had MO from the long drive and our defense was tired. However, we have the best coach in the business and we beat them on that one play. The one extra point is no gimme either. His players gave it their all and they came up short. A great game that we won.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 1:09 PM

It was the right call at the time. I actually think it was a decent play but our athletes recognized it and won.


They had us reeling and *gassed* defensively. Sure the stats are misleading both was as on average, you don't go for 2 against BV but go for 2 against everyone else. So which metric do you chose when the stats conflict?

Still, he was playing with house money. No one was expecting UNC to play us that well and he had his player believing. So, as a retired coach in his first season back, you go nothing to lose.

Plus, if he kicks it, it is tied, you give TL and co a *no pressure* 1:17 window to win the game. Otherwise, if he made it, it would have been a high pressure 1:17 window.

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Going for 2 wasn't the problem.. The play call was stupid.


Sep 30, 2019, 1:12 PM

Glad they made it though. Clemson was having huge problems stopping them up the middle and defending the screen.

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GO TIGERS!!


Yes! It is beyond stupid for non-option teams to run the


Sep 30, 2019, 2:06 PM

option, especially in a critical moment like that.

Running a little bit of the option is like learning a little bit of karate... it's just enough to get your ### beat.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 1:26 PM

I understood why he did it, but I personally think it was the wrong call. In my opinion, you should only go for 2 to win if it's actually going to win the game. If it just puts you ahead, and there's more than a minute left, that's an eternity to get into FG range for the other team, especially in college. And it also changes how the opposition plays. If you go for 2 and get it, they're obviously going to pull out all the stops to get into scoring range. A team that legitimately doesn't have the option to be passive is always dangerous. If you kick and tie, the opposing offense is going to be far more conservative on their final drive to make sure they don't do anything crazy that would lead to a turnover.

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 1:39 PM

No matter what opinion you hold, this is a great discussion. Enjoy each perspective as none are wrong.
I did think the call for two was correct but the play itself was poor, thankfully. I believe we helped make it that way!

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right decision to go, but bad play call


Sep 30, 2019, 1:43 PM

they have to know how fast the Tiger D is...

an option had very little chance of success

bet Mack asks the O coordinator a few more questions next time <img border=">">">">">">">

listen to Mack B's post game comments.. to paraphrase:
the longer the game, the more likely the better team wins..

and he says precisely 'they're the better team'


in case you're wondering... and i know you are... <img border=">">">">">">">

i loved the game.
came out exactly as i'd hoped.
a good close game (thought the odds of that were slim)
and the Tigers won

thought it was a great atmosphere. most energy i've seen in Kenan in a long time (first visit since 2011)

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they were not struggling on 4th down that drive


Sep 30, 2019, 2:15 PM

I'm going for 2

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Re: A lot of people are talking about the decision to go for two


Sep 30, 2019, 2:54 PM

I personally thought there was something fishy about going for two . Clemson is one of the best teams in the nation of stopping two point conversions under Dabo, our defense is excellent at stopping the option . They attempted a option play with a slow pocket passer , They could run that play 100 times with our defense and it would not be successfully single time. Makes no sense to me that experienced coach like Mack Brown would’ve made that call

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We still had over a minute to get into FG range to win


Sep 30, 2019, 3:32 PM

I think if it’s tied, we are more conservative and less likely to move ball effectively to get in FG position. On the the flip side, if we got into FG position behind by a point, our kicker has more pressure.

If I’m a coach I go for tie.

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