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All-TigerNet [14451]
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ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 7:20 AM
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A lot of you need to be listening to mickey right now. he is talking about why clemson is so far behind the 8 ball. our administration did away with the acm this year. it hurts more than just baseball. if we want to be competitive we need to let the administration know that they are the ones that say beast is the standard.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 7:21 AM
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and best also. lol
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Recruit [87]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 7:27 AM
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You know how to laugh?
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All-In [38422]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 7:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACM ] |
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I like Beast is the Standard .
I'll forward this to Brad and Monte right away .
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Legend [16427]
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Is it any easier for SC students to access ACM to go out of
Jun 17, 2019, 7:24 AM
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state? Not talking athletes, but one of our children is looking at a program of study that Clemson does not offer, and it seems like several of our neighboring states do not participate. I guess that may be a function of SC not reciprocating? Anybody know if participation is by school or by state?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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"far behind"? 35 players on the baseball team, how many
Jun 17, 2019, 7:36 AM
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took advantage of ACM-Undergrad while it was available?
I believe I read 21 total student-athletes were under the ACM-All? at one point in the recents. ACM for Graduates was and is still available. Any student-athlete that came to Clemson under ACM-Undergrad will still pay the Instate Tuition amount, it wasn't taken away from existing participants - so the "savings" continue.
https://www.clemson.edu/financial-aid/common-market.html
The only comment I've seen that might be at the root is the program is not one for one, student exchange - South Carolina having ~4-5 to 1 ACM students to other ACM members. Pretty big discrepancy. With Softball coming online, the pool would be even bigger, AD money stretched even further...
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All-In [38422]
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There goes the Cajun Cafe .***
Jun 17, 2019, 7:40 AM
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: "far behind"? 35 players on the baseball team, how many
Jun 17, 2019, 7:46 AM
[ in reply to "far behind"? 35 players on the baseball team, how many ] |
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dont know who but clemson offered a kid 80% and vandy offered 100%. where would you go if money was an issue. must have been a great player for us to offer 80%
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: "far behind"? 35 players on the baseball team, how many
Jun 17, 2019, 7:51 AM
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THE PODCAST OF MICKEYS 7 OCLOCK HOUR WILL BE UP AT 8:05. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET UP TO SPEED.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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80% of what, with what? ACM has nothing to do with scholarships...
Jun 17, 2019, 8:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: "far behind"? 35 players on the baseball team, how many ] |
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per se, it's an arrangement between states that if a student's home state does not offer a program[undergrad or grad], the student can apply in a participating state's program and if accepted, will be charged as an instate student in terms of tuition.
Need based aid, athletic scholarships, merit based grants et al are different conversations and @viztiz has nailed them, tirelessly.
Here derob: http://www.diycollegerankings.com/academic-common-market/20796/
As for Duke, Vanderbilt, I'm sorry, but those are life choices when it comes to higher education. They offer need based aid, so does Clemson - merit for the qualified that earn it.
BUT, the counter for all is equal in the eyes of the NC2A.
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All-In [38422]
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Orange Blooded [2565]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 9:08 AM
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And what is ACM?
It is code for something big obviously.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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All-In [38422]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACM ] |
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Arbitrarily Correcting Monte
It's a thing that some of us do when we want wins but he gives losses .
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Legend [16900]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 9:37 AM
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Can we attempt to be remotely honest about the Academic Common Market? It was Leggett and Lecroy that got Clemson to join the ACM. Leggett never got to utilize it’s benefit. Much like the facilities he raised the money for, the benefit would be passed directly to Monte Lee. Leggett and his record of success would not be afforded the benefit of the doubt that these changes would matter to this program. Clemson’s first undergraduate ACM class was 2015. Monte Lee’s whole tenure he has had the benefit of the ACM. This will be his first recruiting class where it is not available to him.
It is a short sighted decision to leave the ACM. The potential financial implications are trivial in the big picture. It mostly demonstrates that our AD is either not properly engaged with the greater Clemson administration or simply is indifferent to the challenges of non-revenue sports.
The ACM is an issue and should be addressed. But, as a point of discussion, it is mostly being used as cover for an underperforming baseball team. And that is a complete fallacy.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 9:55 AM
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HEY VIZCOOT IT EFFECTS EVERY NON REVENUE SPORT. NOT A WHOLE LOT OF GREAT SOCCER PLAYERS IN SOUTH CAROLINA. IF YOU THINK IT IS OK TO LOSE A GREAT BASEBALL PLAYER TO VANDY BECAUSE WE OFFER 80%, VERY HIGH ON OUR END AND VANDY OFFERS 1OO% THEN WE AINT GOT MUCH TO DISCUSS.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 10:38 AM
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You have 11.7 scholarships to spend. If they want to use a higher portion of that for a player they have less to spread around to others. I’d love to know your source and actual details of the player involved but I’m fairly sure you conveniently won’t be able to provide those. If the player in question is getting 75% financial aid and 25% baseball scholaship he still counts as a full scholarship against the 11.7. I don’t remember you raising hell about the ACM for the 22 years Jack did without it.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 10:46 AM
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NO I WONT BE ABLE TO. A PRO SCOUT TOLD THOSE DETAILS TO MICKEY. I WAS A HUGE JACK FAN. IF YOU THINK THINGS WERE THE SAME WHEN HE COACHED THEN ONCE AGAIN WE GOT NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT. JACKS PROBLEM WAS HE WAS NOT ALLOWED THE MONEY TO HIRE AND KEEP GREAT ASSISTANTS.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 11:03 AM
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So the ACM for undergraduates only magically became a factor in the last 4 years?
Facilities didn’t matter for Jack?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: ACM
Jun 17, 2019, 11:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACM ] |
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One of the primary reasons that the ACM matters is the incredible inflation in college tuition. But, tuition inflation at Clemson was actually significantly greater from 1999-2009 than 2009-2019. Out of state tuition grew nearly 300% from 1999-2009. It was half that (150%) the next decade. To act like this is disproportionately affecting Lee is completely disingenuous.
Vanderbilt, everyone’s favorite new boogey man has had much smaller inflation. Less than 200% for the entire time period. So Vanderbilt over the last 20 years has represented an increasingly better “value” against Clemson. But that increase was most dramatic during Leggett’s tenure - including some of his most successful seasons.
https://www.chronicle.com/interactives/tuition-and-fees
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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I though that JL should have retired as a HOF coach after
Jun 17, 2019, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: ACM ] |
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failing to compete with the ACC. He could then been able to remain semi active & helped with recruiting & consulting. To insist to remain head coach was selfish ,thinking more of his self than Clemson
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Legend [16900]
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Re: I though that JL should have retired as a HOF coach after
Jun 17, 2019, 11:09 AM
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You’re welcome to that opinion but I don’t think you could back it up with facts. Now that Lee is in charge all the problems that Leggett navigated are suddenly being presented as insurmountable. Unfortunately for that argument, Leggett did navigate them. Further, Lee had 2 major advantages in his first 4 seasons that Leggett was not afforded (new facilities and the ACM) and failed to improve in any significant way. I think the coach with the proven record would have had a much greater chance of capitalizing.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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I'm not comparing JL to ML ,just saying it was time for
Jun 17, 2019, 12:49 PM
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JL to retire.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: I'm not comparing JL to ML ,just saying it was time for
Jun 17, 2019, 1:13 PM
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Agree to disagree I guess. Would like to have seen what he could have done for a couple seasons with the new facilities and the ACM as a recruiting tool. I know we lost one very highly regarded recruit when he was fired. Would like to have seen what he could have done with Beer and Okey in his lineup. I think he would have gotten more out of them than Monte did. But we’ll never know.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Monte doesn't impress me that much, but JL seemed to
Jun 17, 2019, 8:27 PM
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be too predictable . Other coaches new how to coach against him . It's hard to steal when they know you're going. I'm concerned about our team. This out of state tuition problem & now UGA. picking up recruits that we used to get
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110%er [9646]
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If the ACM is used to let students pursue degrees that
Jun 17, 2019, 10:58 AM
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are not offered in-state, how were we using it to give in-state tuition to out-of-state baseball players anyway?
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Legend [16900]
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Re: If the ACM is used to let students pursue degrees that
Jun 17, 2019, 11:13 AM
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They specifically choose a major at Clemson that isn’t offered in their home state. If the student really wants to major in something else they can work towards the undeclared degree while meeting minimum advancement requirements in the declared major. Then they can basically switch in their last semester. Some students do this in state to pick up STEM bonus scholarship money.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: If the ACM is used to let students pursue degrees that
Jun 17, 2019, 11:52 AM
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7 OF THE 8 TEAMS IN OMAHA USE THE ACM. ONLY ONE THAT DOESNT IS FSU, THE REASON BEING IS THEY JUST RECRUIT FLORIDA. THEY HAVE HARDLY ANY KIDS THAT ARE NOT FROM FLORIDA. BUT HEY, VIZCOOT SAYS IT IS JUST A CRUTCH THAT MONTE USES. MONTE HAS NOT USED IT BY THE WAY. IT IS JUST A FACT. PRETTY SURE VIZCOOT ALSO SAID MONTE WOULD NOT MAKE IT AT CLEMSON TO YEAR 3.
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Legend [16900]
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Re: If the ACM is used to let students pursue degrees th
Jun 17, 2019, 12:59 PM
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You really need to check your sources better. I’d start with the Southern Regional Education Board website. Michigan isn’t even an ACM state. Determining what schools do and don’t offer undergraduate ACM porgrams because it matters where you are from, not just where you are going to. At a glance, FSU and TTU appear to not offer undergraduate programs. So that makes only 5/8 teams possibly using ACM to an advantage over Clemson. But, Arkansas only offers ACM for majors in American Sign Language. Vanderbilt in Dance and Music Therapy.
Looking at the CWS field just by whether the schools are from ACM states shows an average of 6 teams a year from ACM states over the last 12 years. Three time they have had 7/8 from ACM - two of those during Jack’s tenure once in Monte’s (i did not go back through Jack’s entire 22 years).
So surely an average of 6/8 teams represents a dramatic shift caused exclusively by the ACM right? He last 12 years before the ACM came into existence, 4.5 teams per year came from future ACM states. But that was before the 64 team fields and change in tournament format. So, do you want to credit the ACM for 100% of the change or are you willing to acknowledge that the tournament format and an increased focus on baseball in conferences like ACC and SEC might also play some role?
I never accused Monte of using it as a crutch. I accused the hypocrites defending him on this board of using it.
I said he wouldn’t make it here past next season which, as of now, seems pretty on the mark.
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110%er [9646]
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Legend [16900]
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Re: BUT DID HE GIVE ME THE CORRECT ANSWER TO my QUESTION
Jun 17, 2019, 1:06 PM
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https://home.sreb.org/acm/SearchResult.aspx?state=11
You can play around with the search. From GA there are 7 masters and doctorate programs combined including architecture and construction sciences.
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All-TigerNet [14451]
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Re: BUT DID HE GIVE ME THE CORRECT ANSWER TO my QUESTION
Jun 17, 2019, 1:28 PM
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vizcoot has all the answers. fact is he don't like monte, never has. i didnt want jack fired either but guess what, it happened. and guess what else. he will be here as long as he wants to be here. you haters better hope our administration runs all non revenue sports into the ground. it certainly aint just about baseball.
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All-In [43992]
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Clemson needs to do what is best for Clemson University
Jun 17, 2019, 8:44 PM
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not Clemson Baseball.
If the university feels that the ACM is not what the university needs academically, then we shouldn’t participate in it.
Clemson baseball isn’t important enough to compromise our academic standards.
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