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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 4:44 PM
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I'm thinking about this purely from a football perspective. I just have my concerns that the way we choose to recruit and the values we maintain, may not be enough to keep us competitive in the SEC. I look at UGA, Alabama, LSU, A&M, Texas, OK, Ole Miss, Auburn, Tenn, FLA, etc. and wonder if we are willing to recruit like they do and compete the same way for the best talent out of both HS and the portal. They seem to have a different mindset than we do, which is much more "win at all costs" rather than developing great men while competing at the highest level.
I'm not saying we change our values to be more competitive; I'm simply wondering if our values-based approach can keep us competitive in a conference like the SEC. At least the ACC had schools that cared about, and somewhat prioritized, academic standards. I certainly don't see that in the SEC. What I see is athletics over academics and doing what it takes to achieve excellence in the former, rather than the latter.
I understand change is upon us and we need to control our own destiny. I just wish I felt more confident that the "Clemson way" will translate as well in terms of results in the SEC as it did in the ACC.
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Starter [362]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 4:54 PM
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Yes
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Head Coach [777]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 28, 2024, 8:32 AM
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So each of you would rather be a small fish in a large pond...that's what we will be if we switch to a conterence where we are a newcomer with little status...has the SEC benefited Arkansas, Missery, TAMU, Cootville, there are 1st tier SEC teams...Texas and Okie may end up there but not at the start! SEC natties matter, others are shrugged off as if an anomaly, I don't want my Clemson to end up that way...we have followed the savages down a bad path because of their playoff neurosis so we are now lumped with 'can't keep a contract team' even though Clements lauded the agreement! Someone got more so now we are butt hurt and need more money...nobody has a crystal ball...and even you cannot predict the end...I fear for my Clemson!
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CU Guru [1653]
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We are better than them.. yes.
Apr 30, 2024, 4:58 PM
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Anytime anywhere. Ain’t scared.
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110%er [6861]
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Orange Blooded [3131]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 4:55 PM
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If we recruit like we did from 2014-2019, then we would look about the same as we did then. We smoked their by far most dominant team 44-16.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 4:59 PM
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That was before NIL and Portal when our way in recruiting and selling our other tangible and intangible benefits gave us a leg up. I don't think that advantage plays as well now in this new environment which is what sparks my concerns.
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Orange Blooded [3131]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 6:23 PM
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Our NIL collective is fantastic. Now it’s legal for the schools to be directly involved, it will be even more useful. We have plenty of players getting paid quite well, Dabo most likely strongly encourages them to be smart with it, and not flaunt it on the interwebs nonstop.
I could be way off, but we will definitely need the SEC money to keep up. One day Dabo will retire, and our next coach will probably do whatever he can to the best of his ability to win. We need to be in the SEC or B1G
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Orange Blooded [4099]
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YEP LEMON.....
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Apr 25, 2024, 6:29 PM
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If you want Clemson to continue to be a national player in CFB, you can't stay in ACC with $$$ difference. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE at Clemson is on board
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Head Coach [777]
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Re: YEP LEMON.....
Apr 27, 2024, 4:45 PM
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B.S.
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110%er [6521]
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All-Conference [407]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 7:58 PM
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It’s too bad the B1G needs the AAU certification or whatever it is that might prevent an invite there
Nebraska says hello.
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All-TigerNet [10962]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 26, 2024, 8:46 AM
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Nebraska is what would happen to Clemson recruiting if Clemson joined the B1G. The good southern recruits don't want to play against schools that far away in cold climates.
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Athletic Dir [894]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
May 1, 2024, 1:53 AM
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Osu seem to recruit ok
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Commissioner [975]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 28, 2024, 8:44 AM
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Maybe but in far less quantity. Risk was to big
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CU Medallion [64621]
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So you mean tampering and buying recruits?***
Apr 25, 2024, 5:00 PM
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: So you mean tampering and buying recruits?***
Apr 25, 2024, 5:02 PM
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Did you read the second paragraph? More of a question of if you think we can still be as competitive as we need to be in a go for broke conference like the SEC.
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CU Guru [1085]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 5:01 PM
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I would argue joining the SEC would only benefit Clemson in recruiting. Some high-profile prospects only want to play in the SEC, eliminating Clemson and any other schools not in the conference. Joining would eliminate that. I'm not saying we would instantly be at the top of recruiting rankings, but it would help open up more opportunities for kids who would normally not consider the tigers.
Go Tigers.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 5:05 PM
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That has some merit. We would be more attractive to those who really want to play in the SEC than we are being in the ACC.
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Orange Blooded [2699]
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Orange Blooded [4099]
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Orange Blooded [4283]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 5:04 PM
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A little late. Enjoy your “gathering at the Paw”. While it lasts.
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Recruit [85]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 5:06 PM
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Give your balls a tug. 
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All-In [26135]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 5:36 PM
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Integrity wise NO.
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Orange Blooded [4099]
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SLW...you know the answer.....
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Apr 25, 2024, 5:53 PM
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YES we will be better off. There is a reason ALL the decision makers at the university ...ALL OF THEM...want us out.
Give Clemson a bit more credit. Our recruiting will actually b/c EASIER. Its already competitive now---despite Dabo's self imposed, and sometimes unnecessary (IMO) restrictions. And DABO will also continue to SLOWLY adapt IMO.
I dont want to hear abt ACC academics...nor integrity with all these academic scandals and ACC shenanigans-----not after the fiascos @ UNC and Miami.
The SEC has some really good academic schools....Vandy, UF, Texas, TAMU, UGA, etc......
Why would you want to stay in a conference that has historically screwed us and leeches off of us. Again, give Clemson a bit more credit. Will the comp be tougher, yep, but we will raise to occasion. We are already competitive with the SEC. Our improved recruiting in SEC only helps...
We have NO CHOICE....unless you want to see us back away from the national stage. The $$$ difference over a decade is STAGGERING.
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All-TigerNet [13579]
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Re: SLW...you know the answer.....
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Apr 25, 2024, 5:57 PM
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I hope you are right; I guess first, we have to actually get there...
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Orange Blooded [4099]
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Re: SLW...you know the answer.....
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Apr 25, 2024, 6:01 PM
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We will my Tiger friend. We will ; )
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Letterman [296]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 6:41 PM
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In today's world, money matters. But that doesn't mean Dabo has to change anything about the way he recruits or develops his players. I think it would result in more NIL money for the school, better facilities, etc. Whether we are in the ACC, SEC or BIG10 we will always have rivals. Many will hate other programs, coaches and players. This has been the case for as long as I can remember.
I would prefer being in a conference that doesn't require traveling across the county to play conference games. Sure, I would love for everything to go back to regional conferences, which only makes sense, that's not what the driver of all of this wants. Why ESPN and others want to change college football is beyond me.
Everyone keeps talking about Super Conferences and a group of 64 or whatever. What they fail to remember is teams ebb and flow. I remember when the real USC was a super power and the year Alabama was in the crapper. Making 2, 3 or 4 super conferences is only going to force many schools to get rid of their football programs; which will cause them to have to get out of sports all together. This could result in fewer young people being able to go to college. It could trickle down and lead to fewer young people getting into sports at an early age, resulting in making other choices.
I hate it all but GREED is driving this ship.
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All-American [573]
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change has been thrust upon us...
Apr 25, 2024, 6:49 PM
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in order maintain relevance and to a lesser extent legitimacy-
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110%er [5607]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 7:07 PM
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The bottom line is that if Clemson stays in the ACC our Football program simply won't have the $$$ to remain competitive nationally.
Clemson's main football competition is the SEC. We mainly recruit against SEC teams, and FSU. We're currently doing it from a disadvantage as a member of the ACC both financially, and perception wise. This hurts us BIG TIME on the recruiting trail.
Expansion is about $$$, not academics. Our academic standing will be a selling point in the SEC and that should work to our advantage.
The "Clemson way" is just that, it's our way. It has differentiated us from traditional football factories like Ohio State, 'Bama, UGA, etc... and will continue to do so.
Not only has being in the ACC not a selling point, it's been a detriment.
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Starter [396]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 7:53 PM
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Everyone over here is all for you joining in with us. The competition is elite status. Almost every game is a bowl game. SEC fans travel. Its the best of the best. When, and if, you get over here you will be glad. It will elevate everything for you - create excitement, donations for facilities and generate an unprecedented amount of interest. By the way, you will be with like southern people and not liberal yankees.
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110%er [8009]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 9:44 PM
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Well said, Vol, especially the last sentence.
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110%er [5607]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 9:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC? ] |
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I agree, and we know. Every alumni I've talked with wants out of the ACC for obvious reasons. All acknowledge that winning conference championships in football will be more difficult in the SEC, but the tradeoffs are worth it. The BIG is simply not a geographic, or cultural fit.
Who would the average Clemson fan rather host on campus, or travel away games to? It's a no brainer. The SEC is a natural fit. You said it, the BIG is full of puffed up loudmouth Yankees, they play on the cold, and it's full of people we generally would not want to tailgate with.
I haven't talked with a single Clemson fan that isn't jacked up about the idea of playing teams like Bama, UT, Tex, Auburn, ATM, UGA, LSU, UF, etc....home and away. Compare that to playing in half empty high school stadiums like Duke, BC, Syracuse, etc...and its really a no brainer.
Football season would be infinity more compelling, and we'd finally be playing against schools that have fan bases that care the same way we do (props to FSU of course, they care). Even SCAR fans, they may be delusional and irrational, but they care.
It would be instantly more fun. We have never been members of the ACC wine-and-cheese club so I'm not sure why anyone would get all sentemental now. If we get an invite to the SEC, I say good riddance.
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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110%er [8563]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 7:56 PM
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We are absolutely better off in the ACC in all sports especially football.
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110%er [6861]
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Yourself a worse poster than all the brownell bros put together. Coot.***
Apr 30, 2024, 9:35 PM
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Orange Blooded [4582]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 25, 2024, 7:59 PM
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Yeah, cause who really wants to play WF, Syracuse, Boston College and the gang.
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CU Guru [1425]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 8:45 PM
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Let’s move from the kiddie pool to the big pool and find out.
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110%er [5149]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 9:22 PM
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Clemson would be better if everything was just like they used to be. Life was good for Clemson in the ACC. They recruited well and always played a decent schedule.
This all changed when the SEC and BIG 10 started raiding the other conferences. Things happen and you have to adjust and move on.
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Orange Blooded [3083]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 26, 2024, 8:45 AM
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Things began to change for Clemson when Brent Venables moved on and there was no longer a phenom at QB.
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110%er [6972]
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Our D is still strong. Elite QBs do make a difference!***
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Apr 26, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Orange Blooded [2351]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 25, 2024, 9:53 PM
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We can continue recruiting exactly as we do. Many recruits are looking for what we offer and how we go about things. Difference is we can now get players who wanted to come to Clemson, but felt the SEC gave them better exposure. There are many talented kids who make up their mind early they are the best and want to show it in the conference considered the best.
Our road will be tougher, but our team will be better.
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Orange Blooded [4359]
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What exactly needs to change? We recruit against them now and are very
Apr 26, 2024, 8:33 AM
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competitive. I don’t know why changing conferences would affect that in any way, shape or form. The only thing that may change is adapting to the ever changing landscape with NIL, but I think we are making that transition already.
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Orange Blooded [4766]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 26, 2024, 8:39 AM
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We already are beating them at the recruiting game and over all wins. Our record vs the SEC the past 10 years is superlative doing it the way we do it. Nothing will change there, we will just have more money to do it with. Clemson would be the "Shining City on a Hill" in the SEC which all others would strive to emulate. Dabo is a step ahead of them already!
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CU Medallion [65777]
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We recruit well now, but ALWAYS with the disadvantage of the perception of
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Apr 26, 2024, 8:41 AM
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the weak ACC working against us. And, there also seem to be a number of kids every year who have their minds set on playing for an SEC school, it just comes down to "which one"?
You take those two roadblocks away from our recruiting, and the literal sky is the limit! The Coots, above all, know this, which is why they will do everything their beaked little minds can come up with to keep us out of the SEC.
Just from a geographical and natural rivalry standpoint, the SEC makes more sense than the BIG. But, monetarily, the BIG may actually be the better option long term. And, FOX, their TV partner, does not appear to be hemorrhaging money left and right like ESPN is. The SEC's House of Cards may well be crumbling.
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Orange Blooded [3158]
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You can't set aside the money. That's what it's all about
Apr 26, 2024, 8:44 AM
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More TV revenue will benefit the Athletic Department for all sports. IPTAY can put more money into NIL.
Right now, I'm not sure we can keep up. Yes we are recruiting up there. We need to turn that up a little more in key areas to stay in the conversation.
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Hall of Famer [22925]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
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Apr 26, 2024, 8:44 AM
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I think we have to assume that the SEC and BIG will be the basis for 2 mega conferences and the others will be cannibalized or left behind. With that being the case, we will need to be in one of those conferences to get the money needed to keep our facilities and programs competitive. The SEC makes much more sense than the BIG.
I would much rather keep things as they were/are but I believe that ship has already left the station.
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Commissioner [910]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 26, 2024, 1:56 PM
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No we are not but we eliminate a lot of lousy games and avoid a lot of frustration with the league and it’s stupidity
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CU Guru [1022]
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How we recruit id t the issue.
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Apr 26, 2024, 2:11 PM
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Avoiding the portal is the problem for football. Sustained excellence in the Power 5 is no longer possible without portal players to fill key needs.
If it continues, we would be middle of the pack in any Power 5 conference, at best.
Our FB model doesn't work well in the new world of the portal.
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Oculus Spirit [94213]
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You guys really need to get over this.
Apr 27, 2024, 5:20 PM
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Our opinion doesn't matter to Dabo. He's not going to bid on recruits. If a kid wants money more than he wants to play at Clemson we don't need him.
IN case no one else has noticed, Clemson recruits guys with high caliper character from quality upbringing. With other teams it's about a month without an arrest. Clemson isn't in that conversation. Our big news is when we have one every three years arrested.
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Commissioner [902]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 27, 2024, 7:52 PM
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The answer is yes.
The reality is you can’t ignore the payout disparity.
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CU Guru [1110]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 28, 2024, 10:46 AM
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Absolutely
The damage this would inflict on the coots alone , is worth the move.
Eliminating the last remaining advantage they have over us on the recruiting trail is a program changer for the coots.
The increased exposure we would necessarily receive going forward would increase our value around the country as well as financially
Now , move on to the matchups we would see regularly in the SEC.
They're not only good for Clemson, they're good for college football.
That's a much overlooked benefit in an all evolving sport that currently spawns much despair for some who are resistant to change.
It is not entirely out of the question that our " culture " at Clemson travels with us into the SEC.
Imagine that. If it were to occur we may become the most attractive team in the conference offering everything recruits want and more ( including what mom and dad seek the most for their child ).
Food for thought
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110%er [5419]
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 28, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Clemson has got to be a member of one of the two power conferences for football to stay relevant.
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Legend [17693]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14193
Joined: 10/24/10
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Dabo will not be at Clemson University forever
1
Apr 28, 2024, 3:53 PM
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And make no mistake about it, Dabo deserves most of the credit for Clemson's multiple ACC championships, playoff appearances, and two national over the past decade.
That said, I loved the Ford regime as did many Clemson Tiger alums, boosters, and fans, without the mindset that Clemson was morally and ethically superior to every other football program in the United States. That's a slippery slope.
One day Dabo will retire or decide a change is needed for himself and Clemson. On that day, be it three years or fifteen years from now, Clemson will not find another Dabo. It is likely, Clemson will approach football in a more traditional manner, a manner more comparable to Coach Ford's "roll up the sleeves and play ball" approach ... an approach more comparable to the SEC and Ford's approach in the 1980's.
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Head Coach [777]
TigerPulse: 71%
Posts: 1760
Joined: 1/12/19
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
Apr 30, 2024, 4:34 PM
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Great point...this whole issue really bothers me as you can tell from my posts...in my febile opinion we will never be an Alabama or Georgia or Tennessee or Florida in the SEC...the power brokers will not allow it...we will not be a OSU or Mich or even a PSU in the BIG! We have made a great national name for ourselves right where we are...we were in fact the power of the ACC...and it seems for a few $more many at Clemson want us to assume the position of UofSC or TAMU with dreams of grandeur! Dreams are often a poor excuse for reality...but the bug has hit Clemson!
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Oculus Spirit [94213]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95503
Joined: 12/25/09
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I'll take 40K rednecks over 30k yankees coming to Clemson anyday and...
Apr 30, 2024, 9:39 PM
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twice on Sunday. I have no hate for southern schools. My hate list is ND, OSU, USCw, Michigan and Nebraska.
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Athletic Dir [894]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 1338
Joined: 6/23/05
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Re: Setting the money advantages aside, are we really better off in the SEC?
May 1, 2024, 1:50 AM
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I think Clemson way translates better in the BIG,
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