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Replies: 119
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Editor [∞]
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TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:00 AM
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CU Medallion [67865]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:09 AM
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I always thought baseball had a tough job balancing their numbers because of partial scholarships but with the new world football almost needs a math major just to track where you are numbers wise
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 15, 2021, 8:43 PM
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Just count the guys on the DL that could have gone pro, or elsewhere as our portal guys.
We have a QB, that may compete, but at least be a quality back up.
I think we are better off with recruiting and developing Clemson players.
Then pick up a few quality portal players when identified and available.
FSU was/is desperate just like the coots, they will always gamble on portal players.
The schools that recruit by offering everybody, they end up with big portal losses.
Picking up a quality starter is much more difficult than picking up depth.
Look at the guys leaving Clemson via the portal, all looking for more playing time....
2023 is looking good, Go Tigers!
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110%er [8017]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:27 AM
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Hopefully we will stop taking “reach” players who have no other legit offers (except as PWOs) and fill those spots with legit transfers. Seems pretty simple
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All-In [48394]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:40 AM
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^^^ gets it ^^^
Most Clemson fans understand we don't want or need a philosophical change in roster building. It'd be great if we could go back in time and redshirt 96% of our true freshman because you knew they'd be there for 4 years +.
What happens is we end up perpetually having a position group or two that HAVE to rely on young inexperienced kids to play every season. Or rely on players that are crockpot kids. At some point they'll be good, just not now.
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CU Guru [1487]
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So Dabo doesn't get it? Portal kids don't transfer for added depth.***
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:56 AM
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All-In [48394]
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Re: So Dabo doesn't get it? Portal kids don't transfer for added depth.***
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Jan 9, 2023, 1:26 PM
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Well, we've had 2 the last 2 years that have. And both imo would have been better options than Billy wiles had we needed. Who said anything about Dabo not getting it?
Two, most portal transfers understand they're not quareenteed a spot. What, imo people miss is that by and large most portal kids are just a recruit. Same as a HS recruit.
Third, there's enough kids in the portal that have surprised coaches at the d1 level with film talent. Fcs schools, ivy league. Bunch of kids who are football ready but would love to come here.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Re: So Dabo doesn't get it? Portal kids don't transfer for added depth.***
Jan 9, 2023, 8:28 PM
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1. We had transfers, why? Because they weren't playing. The overwhelming vast majority of kids getting into the portal are doing so because they're not playing enough
2. "Most portal transfers understand they're not guaranteed a spot". I completely disagree. If kids are happy being depth, then there's no reason to transfer. Again, virtually every single transfer player is going somewhere where he's etched into a starting role. We see it all the time, player X transfers, doesn't start, then he transfers again. Kids aren't transferring to be depth, and when they don't start they just transfer again. We don't need that garbage.
3. There may be some good players in the portal. Most all of them are gone. We've looked at a couple. It's not that we don't. We tell kids they can come to a great school and have an opportunity to play. But again, what position are we looking to bench someone in favor of a guy who hasn't earned his way? There are lists of portal players all over the internet. Please take a look and let me know who we want, and who we're going to bench to give him a starting spot. Kids ARE NOT transferring to be added depth.
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Commissioner [928]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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You are exactly correct. When we are at the end of the recruiting cycle, miss on a top end guy or two, rather than taking a wild swing at a kid with zero P5 offers, who should have been considered a PWO, go get a position of need, preferably with just 1 or 2 years of eligibility left and already physically developed.
I also think there are opportunities for top end guys that we miss on originally that might have been influenced by NIL, where it doesn't workout for them and they realize Clemson would have been a better place for them. As some learn over time, yes, money is important but it isn't the most important thing, you have to be happy.
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Legend [18798]
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100% agree.
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:20 AM
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Nowhere do you see this more than at RB. We miss on our first choices for two years in a row so we take wild swings at project recruits who barely had any D1 offers.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: 100% agree. Perfect portal RB for us … Kobe Pace
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:05 AM
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What makes you so sure that we have not pursued RBs via the portal?
Any thought that high -end portal guys may have looked at Shipley and Mafah, and then decided to go to somewhere else where he wouldn’t have to beat out TWO high quality RBs for playing time?
The perfect type of RB for us to get in the portal … someone who was a very good, proven player who would get a bunch of Carrie’s if either Shipley or Mafah got hurt is … wait for it … Kobe Pace.
Ya’ll need to think this thing through a little bit more before climbing out on the ledge.
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Legend [18798]
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You're going to pump, I get it
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Jan 9, 2023, 3:23 PM
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but stop asking people 'to think things through' who you disagree with; that's very condescending. We are a twisted ankle away from having Keith Adams Jr getting meaningful snaps with our OL. That's a recipe for disaster.
Please don't give me stuff about Ship and Mafe scaring recruits away; it's been two years without sniffing a top 50 back. Other teams have good starting backs, yet they still recruit better than us and use the portal; look at Alabama.
RB recruiting for the past two years has been a disaster. Anyone without orange-colored glasses can see it.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: You're going to pump, I get it
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:59 PM
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It might be the lack of production by our backs that scares others away. If two guys that good can't average more than they do, potential portal players may not want to run behind that line.
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Legend [18798]
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Well that's another aspect. OL is trash and our best OL is
Jan 9, 2023, 8:19 PM
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gone next year.
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CU Guru [1487]
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OL is trash??
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:35 PM
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We won 11 games man. No we're not Alabama on the OL, but nobody wins 11 games with an OL who is "trash".
You're gonna dump, I get it. Seems to be a hobby of yours.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Hall of Famer [22748]
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Re: 100% agree.
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:27 AM
[ in reply to 100% agree. ] |
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Were there any RBs in the portal that are better? Just asking because I really don’t know the answer.
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Associate AD [833]
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Re: 100% agree.
Jan 9, 2023, 8:37 PM
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The answer is no.
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CU Guru [1487]
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No transfer running backs are looking to move and
Jan 9, 2023, 8:30 PM
[ in reply to 100% agree. ] |
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be 3rd (at best) on the depth chart.
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Orange Blooded [3290]
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Re: No transfer running backs are looking to move and
Jan 10, 2023, 6:34 AM
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We had a portal guy as our no 3 RB. Kobe Pace!
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Legend [19697]
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?***
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:31 AM
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I don't think so. Dabo seen more from Turner than just being his best friend son that he promised to look after, he saw raw talent even though he would have had a scholarship regardless, but with him being talented was plus for Dabo and the FB team.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?***
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:04 PM
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C’mon … you are trying to have it both ways.
Discrediting Dabo’s approach to roster management (offering low rated players), but then … for those that either prove to be successful or who have flashed enough talent to be projected as stars … then THOSE guys are the low-rated guys who we should pursue.
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Commissioner [928]
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Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?***
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Jan 9, 2023, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to You mean guys like Cole Turner?*** ] |
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I really hope Cole turns out to be a Renfrow type but after only 3 games and 8 catches I think it is a little early to use him as an example. Especially when he is part of a very depleted position group, unfortunately given our state at WR right now, all it takes is one catch to look good, minus Antonio of course.
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?***
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Jan 9, 2023, 10:50 AM
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I would like to see Cole develop as a downfield receiver. Looked like our best DEEP target this year.
I don't know how fast Cole is for the 40, but his brother was the fastest from Clemson on his pro day.
Let some of the other guys and Tight Ends get the inside, first down passes.
I sure miss the days when we had multiple receivers that could blow the top off the Defense.
There is no substitute for speed and hands.
Nuk was never that fast, but he would always fight for the ball, like Cole does, or Renfro did.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?***
Jan 9, 2023, 12:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: You mean guys like Cole Turner?*** ] |
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Oh, I get it.
Wait for a low-rated recruit to become the next Hunter Renfrow before you acknowledge that Dabo’s approach is OK … but only as long as the WRs are C.Turner and H.Renfrow.
The challenge is looking forward and projecting whether players will be good … not looking into the past with the ‘I always knew that Dabo had it right’ when in fact the Dabo basher had predicted misery and woe for not using the portal to fix all of our problems.
Again, simply ‘using the portal’ doesn’t mean squat. It is all about HOW the portal is used, and for what can be gotten via the portal.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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You mean like ho-hum 3* Wade Woodard?
We did not offer Woodaz until late … after long-time commit Jaren Kanak (4* speedster) bailed on us to follow Venables to OK.
The howling on TNet for ‘downgrading’ by settling for a ho-hum 3* vs. the much hyped 4*.
Yep, here’s another Cole Turner type of example where we are settling for a miserable young 3* player instead of a ‘how much are you paying me’ portal guy upper junior or senior.
Dabo needs to heed advice from TNet.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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and maybe they are . . . . but making contact with any kids you were originally interested in, that's now in the portal . . .seems like a no brainer. Then there's the kids that may have been outlayers on the list originally when coming out . . that have developed more than you thought they would. You have to give them a close look now. And no one, no one anywhere here, has said you need to bring in kids that don't fit the Clemson mold. Only that . . there may be a few of them out there.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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You really would think that it was just that simple but, whoever Dabo has keeping up with the numbers has turned that task into Rocket Science!!!!
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110%er [7159]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 11:08 AM
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From what has been posted by TNet’s portal now / portal is the cure advocates, there are not any rocket scientists in that crowd who can help with ‘keeping up with the numbers.’
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 11:43 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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Of course, you are not referring to players like Hunter Renfrow and the Turner brothers. Ev ery team has "reach" players because all four star players are not going to a school that they know they will have to sit on the bench. Every school in the country probably has some three and two star players to fill out their roster. Probably even Alabama and Georgia.
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Scout Team [188]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 10, 2023, 8:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal ] |
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Hopefully we will stop taking “reach” players who have no other legit offers (except as PWOs) and fill those spots with legit transfers. Seems pretty simple
This right here!! ??????
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All-In [44055]
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Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:42 AM
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While he is current that we don’t have room right now for more players, and while it is true that some players have come back, it is also true that a growing portion of our roster is occupied by players who are not as talented as some of the better players in the portal.
Perhaps if we didn’t keep turning so many walk-ons into scholarship players, and signing players who aren’t likely to ever see the field for us, we would have room to upgrade our roster via the portal.
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CU Guru [1487]
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Dabo knows 10000x better than you, and transfer players
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:58 AM
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aren't moving around to be depth. Please stop posting your repeated nonsense.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: Dabo knows 10000x better than you, and transfer players
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:14 AM
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aren't moving around to be depth. Please stop posting your repeated nonsense.
Apparently, he knows how to talk to other adults, and if you could learn that your pulse wouldn't be 68%. Tiger Net isn't a site for you to come to release your anger toward other T-Netter opinions!!!
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CU Guru [1487]
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Judge Keller, "knows how to talk to adults"?
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Based on what I've seen, I couldn't disagree more. JK is far from a reasonable adult. It was utter bunk that he posted. His only intent is trill the football program. You're one if the few who don't realize that apparently.
I'm curious too, what are you talking about? I said nothing out of the way, and I certainly wasnt angry. But speaking of anger, it's odd you spoke about that while sounding angry. Feel free to clarify or comment on the actual subject matter. I don't really desire to discuss your misplaced feelings though. Cool?
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110%er [6139]
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Hall of Famer [22748]
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Re: Dabo knows 10000x better than you, and transfer players
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:30 AM
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So that comment works both ways. Do you know that there ARE players in the portal that can start for us? If so, how do you know that and who are they?
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CU Guru [1045]
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CU Guru [1487]
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No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying Dabo has his finger on the pulse more than
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo knows 10000x better than you, and transfer players ] |
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anyone on a message board, especially those who create a work of trolling fiction, like Judge Keller did.
Just for kicks and giggles though, who do you want to tell to hit the bench on favor or a guy who hasn't put his time in?
Portal guys aren't moving around to be backups and depth. They move to be a starter. I have no idea what's put there and I can't think of anyone to bench. Got any ideas?
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Head Coach [784]
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:18 AM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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Agree with JK on this one. Dabo taking the high road with kids that will not play meaningful minutes is going to eventually cost us further. It is common sense, not microwave cooking! Not to mention portal players that we would want or need are not going to be available in May. It seems that the teams that are embracing the portal are much more proactive than Clemson in their evaluation and timing. Dabo essentially continues to be unwilling to change with the times, and not following his own “corporate” advice.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:19 AM
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Agree with JK on this one. Dabo taking the high road with kids that will not play meaningful minutes is going to eventually cost us further. It is common sense, not microwave cooking! Not to mention portal players that we would want or need are not going to be available in May. It seems that the teams that are embracing the portal are much more proactive than Clemson in their evaluation and timing. Dabo essentially continues to be unwilling to change with the times, and not following his own “corporate” advice.
I agree, and what folks that don't understand what's being said about wasted scholarships, just go to the roster listing and count the number of players that "N E V E R" play a meaningful down of FB for the team in any game, it's loaded with them!!!
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Legend [16263]
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I'm sorry, but anyone upset with Dabo 'taking the high road'
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:53 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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and suggesting he do otherwise in any aspect of his job or life has lost any meaningful perspective on what got Clemson to the mountaintop and why we are a consistent national power, today, with few peers. Thankfully the actual players that come here to compete, that earn their roster spots and playing time, have a better take on life than some of the butthurt crybabies that can't help making fools out of themselves on here on a regular basis with takes such as this.
You are likely ignorant to the fact that Dabo held two scholarships after last season to pursue needs at OL from the portal, which didn't pan out, as it wouldn't fit your whiny narrative. This year, with 6-star one-and-dones coming back for another ride, we are loaded, and chock full.
Get a life. And Go Tigers!
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: I'm sorry, but anyone upset with Dabo 'taking the high road'
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:49 AM
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Absolutely right. It seems that many here are forgetting that we play more players than practically any school in the country. The young men that come here know that they can earn playing time. Even those of ours that have hit the portal can't say that they did not get playing time ...... maybe not enough to suit them, but they got a chance to show what they could do.
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CU Guru [1487]
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All-In [30841]
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110%er [8017]
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:45 AM
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the portal"
100% subjective.
Um...no its not. The chances of a guy who has no P5 offers and no 247 profile ever making an impact on our team are very slim. Not many guys who are talented enough to get a scholarship are missed by every-single-P5-coach. On the other hand, a guy who has been productive at a P5 or G5 program and has actual college level film to evaluate will almost certainly play at the same level at Clemson as he did at the previous school.
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CU Guru [1589]
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:50 AM
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Sort of like Hunter Renfrow, jstone?
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All-In [30841]
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he probably didn't realize it but he also
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:20 AM
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indicating that Dabo should have pulled the scholarship from Cade Klubnik to go after JT Daniels
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110%er [6139]
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Re: he probably didn't realize it but he also
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:22 AM
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indicating that Dabo should have pulled the scholarship from Cade Klubnik to go after JT Daniels
jumping the shark on this one?
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All-In [30841]
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that is his argument
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:26 AM
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JT Daniels was in the portal.. had waaaaaaaaay more experience at a P5 G4 school than cade.
based off his reasoning Daniels is clearly "better"
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110%er [7159]
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in ] |
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Hunter Renfrow was another that actually had real talent that was overlook. That is true with many of those type guys, and those guys should really have to earn a scholarship, and not given to them bc there was a scholarship left over like Renfrow did!!!
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110%er [7159]
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
Jan 9, 2023, 1:03 PM
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As if you are the one … of course after the fact … that is able to (along with Dabo in Dabo’s ‘blind hog find an acorn’ lucky occasion) identify those misses from the recruiting services.
Not just Dabo, but also Kirby Smart and Nick Saban want to take you to dinner.
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in ] |
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I think they are mistaking those types of players as diamonds in the ruff, but nothing shinny is ever found with those players, and that only means they weren't a diamond in the ruff players bc if they were, they wouldn't spend 4 years of college being Clemson educated occupying the bottom depths of the roster. You don't see those players transferring bc they are only there for a free education!!!
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Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:57 AM
[ in reply to Re: "who are not as talented as some of the better players in ] |
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Come on people, we can not use Hunter Renfrow as an example. He is a very special and rare talent. Everybody has one, but alot of good players are missed due to politics in High School Coaches. I can tell you if the Coach does not like you, you will not get any attention from a College coach regardless of hwo good you are.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: "who are not as talented …” - - - Mason Trotter
Jan 9, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Mason Trotter (walk-on OL) started several games for us in both 2020 and 2022).
Our 2020 team made CFP.
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Legend [16058]
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ANDDDDDD,,,,
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:28 AM
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Dabo has never been a guy who pulls a scholarship soley to get a so called better kid that just hit the portal....
i just dont see how any 1 can use the portal as a standard part of their recruiting cycle UNLESS they already have some sort of connection with the player before they hit the portal. I dont know how else you can pull it off.
"Im not going to recruit any RBs outta HS this year because i "know" there will be a 4-5 star hitting the portal in December . I'll recruit him isntead."
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110%er [5014]
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^^This is the conundrum^^
Jan 9, 2023, 9:39 AM
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Dabo has to either compromise on his principles and recruit players before they go into the portal or wait and see and likely get nothing as a result. Quite a conundrum for a man of principles and morals.
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Re: ^^This is the conundrum^^ … tampering
Jan 9, 2023, 1:18 PM
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Recruiting players before they go into the portal is called: Tampering.
It will not be any time soon before Dabo goes down that road.
Before the tampering path is taken, the NCAA must abandon its hypocrisy and openly declare that tampering is an acceptable practice.
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Re: Once he has 10-15% of his schollie … it’s called culture
Jan 9, 2023, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to Once he has 10-15% of his schollie roster portal ] |
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The “for whatever reason …” is called Dabo’s culture.
Among the top tier programs in CFB, it is unique.
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:25 AM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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"it is also true that a growing portion of our roster is occupied by players who are not as talented as some of the better players in the portal"
Still as dense as ever, Judge.
Which STARTER on our team would be beaten out by which player in the portal?
Yes, player 85 on the roster is not as good as some of the guys in the portal. But guys aren't in the portal to replace player 85 and chase kickoffs every now and then. They are in the portal to get significant playing time.
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Hall of Famer [22948]
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You think our OL and WRs are better than anybody in portal?
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:40 AM
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There is always a need to upgrade, but no room per Dabo’s process.
Curious how our roster would work if the 10+ transfers and NFL decisions stayed. I assume we’ll see more folks leave in the spring.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: You think our OL and WRs are better than anybody in portal?
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:46 AM
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Which OL or WR in the portal would replace a starting OL or WR on our team?
And which scholarship player are we kicking out to make room?
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110%er [6139]
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as an example, this year's Outland Trophy winner might have
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:25 AM
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been able to crack our starting lineup, you think?
Or maybe Jameson Williams last year?
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Re: 2022’s Outland Trophy winner … we went after him
Jan 9, 2023, 1:22 PM
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BTW, Dabo pursued Olutawimi (I cannot spell his name and didn’t look it up) via the portal.
We didn’t get him.
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110%er [7159]
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there are over 1300 football players
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:49 AM
[ in reply to You think our OL and WRs are better than anybody in portal? ] |
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in the portal
with a pool that large, probability dictates that at least 1 is more talented. more experienced than a player currently on the roster. Yes.. probability dictates one could be better than current Clemson player.
THat doesn't mean Clemson would find the player or that the player would agree to come to Clemson.
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
Jan 9, 2023, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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"Which STARTER on our team would be beaten out by which player in the portal"
Uh, just about every OL or WR not named Williams & possibly Randall.
We are AWFUL on the OL and G5 at WR. The development of both groups are complete butt now.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:58 AM
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You’ve utterly discredited yourself when you called out “about every OL or WR …” as being ‘beatable’ by players in the portal.
OL: Which among our starters (for next year) of Putnam, Parks, Tate, and Miller would you replace. Surely you can identify JUST ONE portal player that you’ve got in mind.
WR: Which WR (excluding A.Williams and A.Randall) from among Cole Turner, Beaux Collins, or Joseph Ngata do you think has the academic competency and locker room demeanor that should be brought in via the portal? Don’t tell me that you’ve got one of TX A&M’s super stud WR talents who are awaiting the NIL wire transfer while biding their time in the portal.
(*). Both the WR and OL units have developed very well since 2021 to 2022, although you apparently have not noticed.
After you see (assuming that you are not permanently blind) Noble Johnson and Tyler Brown on the field this year, and you see the production from C.Turner, A.Williams, A.Randall, B.Collins, and (if he stays) J.Ngata, then hopefully the light will come on for you.
My biggest short term worry is QB. I have confidence that CK2 will be sufficiently seasoned by the start of the 2024 season to be a very good QB. For 2023 season, it is asking a lot to expect him to be truly ready to lead us to a CFP type season.
Go Tigers!
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
Jan 9, 2023, 11:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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"it is also true that a growing portion of our roster is occupied by players who are not as talented as some of the better players in the portal"
Still as dense as ever, Judge.
Which STARTER on our team would be beaten out by which player in the portal?
Yes, player 85 on the roster is not as good as some of the guys in the portal. But guys aren't in the portal to replace player 85 and chase kickoffs every now and then. They are in the portal to get significant playing time.
Do you really think we couldn't have improved our O-line through the portal?
I don't want to replace Cade, but every year established QB's enter the portal.
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Legend [19697]
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We have two former walk ons among the 88. Two...
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:31 AM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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Will Taylor, who everyone knew was going on scholarship when one opened, and Dominique Thomas. That's it.
And before you start on it, we have 3 former Daniel players, all offered out of HS. Venables, Lawson and Kelley. All legit prospects. One former coaches son, Venables.
So, whose scholarship are you revoking?
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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All-TigerNet [13549]
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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Why don't we focus on what the article actually said? We are currently 3 over on scholarships and those numbers don't include friends and family or most walk-ons. So, if this is the case, what exactly are you going to say to someone in the portal if you can't offer them a scholarship right away?
I thought the article was an admission of how the stance on the portal is changing. Two years ago it was a hard "no", last year it was benign neglect (passive), and this year it is let's talk to a few guys who might be able to help us if and when we have openings. Dabo admitted that with the door so easily being able to swing both ways, roster management is going to continue to be a challenge and gaps will come more frequently and more easily than in the past because of the change in transfer rules.
While we might agree that Dabo has been slow to come around on when and how to use the portal, he does seem to have a plan for it and is beginning to embrace it. I don't think we will ever take the FSU approach of building a significant part of our roster from the portal but I do think he is prepared to fill gaps as they come with portal players who present a good fit.
To me, this is all healthy progress from what was a pretty firm stance against the portal in the past, and now is a much more thoughtful approach to it.
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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In the article itself, Dabo spelled it out as far as the non-monetary objectives of portal players.
Not explicitly stated, but very easy for anyone who can connect two dots, is that portal candidates of interest are proven performers … not just previously hyped talent prospect that had been riding the bench elsewhere.
Allow me to spell out how a talented prospect becomes a PROVEN performer: He must have played one or two seasons and PRODUCED.
OK, now for the motivations of portal players (with focus on the position group on our roster of most glaring need for quality depth: RB
The proven talent RBs want to play … NOW. Share with TNet the proven talent SO, JR, or SR proven performer RB that is OK to sit behind Shipley and Mafah to provide depth.
No no no … Kobe Pace doesn’t count.
Maybe there are some NIL pro sti tutes from a TX A&M or Ole Miss who would take some NIL cash from us, take up a roster spot that otherwise would be occupied by one of Dabo’s reviled low-star Developmental RBs. That type of roster re-management does not sound so hot to me.
As for the also reviled scholarships that end up being given to walk-ons that have busted their humps in practice, let me tell you something about these cannon-fodder walk-ons: The passion with which they practice (they’ve got nothing to lose and a remote chance of actually getting a tangible reward) makes all of the high profile scholarship players better.
Darn few of TNet’s portal worshippers understand this.
For the millionth time, if Clemson had been ringing up 8 - 4 seasons as being an occasion for whooping it up, then I’d be more skeptical about whether Dabo’s approach is working. Dabo’s approach is working.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light.
Jan 9, 2023, 8:16 PM
[ in reply to Dabo is brilliant at framing situations to paint them in the best light. ] |
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Right now we don't have our normal number of walk-ons on scholarship. The issue right now is all the ones using their COVID year. I like seeing several of them back, but it makes roster management pretty hard. We should probably tell a couple of guys that if they want to use their COVID year then they need to go somewhere else, but Dabo would never do that.
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Standout [330]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 7:55 AM
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I like position better than what the Coots have. They have been losing starters to the portal. We have lost players trying to get more playing time.
They have no idea who is in there roster or what they have.
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Commissioner [924]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:13 AM
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The top players in the portal are looking for $$$$, they're not coming to Clemson, the staff is going to have to consider lesser players if they decide to use the portal.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 1:27 PM
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This is also true.
Even when leaving monetary aspects out of the argument, there are legitimate justifications why Clemson just doesn’t leap into the portal (such as FSU does).
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 8:17 AM
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Can someone confirm or clarify for me... you can go over the annual limits to replace transfers but the 85 total roster is a hard cap? And no exception for the players who took an extra 'COVID-year' season? Thanks.
(I'm glad they included the comment about walk-ons and coaches' kids. There was something of a kerfuffle on here the other day about nepotism. And, yeah, having Swinney's kid f-up a big play in the Orange Bowl was far from ideal. Bit those kids aren't on scholarship and hardly get playing time at all. They are basically practice squad players. There's no harm in them being on the squad.)
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110%er [5512]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:30 AM
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The limit on scholarship players is 85. That is a hard cap. There are no exceptions for players who were granted and extra Covid year (that exception has expired).
You cannot go over the limit to replace transfers...not sure what you mean there. The limit is 85, period.
The "88" number is how many scholarships we have committed to for 2023-2024 season. That number has to get down to 85 by the time the remaining freshmen enroll. Per the article, it is expected to happen naturally through additional attrition (players leaving/transferring). This is a common practice all over the country, though not so common at Clemson as we tend to have less attrition (and thus less "over-signing") than other big-name teams.
For the roster overall, the maximum is 125. So, 85 on scholarship, 125 on roster, max.
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110%er [7497]
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The 2nd part of his question is reference
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:50 AM
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to the 25 cap and yes you can go over 25 to replace but still are capped at 85 overall
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110%er [5512]
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Re: The 2nd part of his question is reference
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:54 AM
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The rule on 25 max has been removed, temporarily. I expect that removal will become permanent.
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Associate AD [828]
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110%er [5401]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:33 AM
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I believe the amount of players that opted to stay for another year took Dabo by surprise. There was smoke about getting the receiver from Charlotte out of the portal then radio silence. Roster management for a head coach right now is a nightmare. My question is, “What is Dabo going to do if none of the 88 portal out in the spring?”
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Legend [19697]
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We could lose someone before Jan 18
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:37 AM
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Ngata is undecided, though he really needs to return. DT is likely a place of attrition with both TD and Ruke returning. To much talent not to see someone leave. An OL down on the depth chart is likely. Guys want to play. Taylor if he moves to baseball only would come off after the spring
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110%er [8540]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:34 AM
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People just need to understand that football recruiting is very hard. If our players that are returning are better than any that we could recruit from the Portal then we are better off than the schools that use that avenue. If fans haven't learned that if they follow what others are doing, they may find themselves lost. Trust the coaches.
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110%er [5046]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 8:38 AM
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I’m sick of this Dabo and portal debate…He’s not going to use it…Please let’s stop talking about it.
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110%er [7159]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 1:38 PM
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You are wrong.
Dabo was ‘all in’ last year in recruiting portal player Olutawimi (super stud center who had played at UVA).
We didn’t get him; he went to Michigan.
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110%er [7497]
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Only 1 more recruiting cycle/year should be majorly
Jan 9, 2023, 8:54 AM
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Impacted by this extra Covid year non-sense. A smaller number the following year that had some redshirting mixed in and then we’re done. Should have never been allowed for football once they decided to play the season/hold a championship that year
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: Only 1 more recruiting cycle/year should be majorly
Jan 9, 2023, 9:12 AM
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Impacted by this extra Covid year non-sense. A smaller number the following year that had some redshirting mixed in and then we’re done. Should have never been allowed for football once they decided to play the season/hold a championship that year
I think granting the extra year was the right thing to do, but it is odd when you get guys who would have never been playing that year anyway - guys who would have been red-shirts.
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110%er [7497]
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it should have counted as a RS for those who chose not to
Jan 9, 2023, 2:29 PM
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play, then if you want to be more lenient with a 2nd injury RS than you already are, then consider that. But almost everyone played and there was a full CFP and NC crowned. The spring sports I get if they didn't have a 2019-2020 championship but football had 85% season and crowned a champ
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Orange Blooded [3977]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:09 AM
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You could just say we got 5 getting XT, Ruke, TD, Jones and Phillips. We got the talent to still get the job done on both sides of the ball. It's just time we use them the right way and get the max possible production from everyone. FSU is only doing that cause they know how far behind they were, they are trying for the quick easy fix....and you know what, IT STILL WON"T BE ENOUGH! Kings of the Transfer Portal this year....and the Kings of 2nd place!
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Orange Blooded [2031]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:10 AM
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How does Norvel have room for 10 portal upgrades and we have none?
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:18 AM
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How does Norvel have room for 10 portal upgrades and we have none?
I believe they both gained and lost seven through the portal, but the seven they gained were upgrades, which is why they are #2 (behind Colorado) in the portal on 247 Sports.
Now I do think it is a wee-bit problematic to make firm declarations about the player quality, because it is really still based upon their star ratings coming out of high school. But I'm pretty sure that Norvell (more than most) has folks doing a good job evaluating talent. And incoming freshman can he as big a crap-shoot as transfers.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 9:20 AM
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(And they only have 17 commits in the incoming class. We have 26.)
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110%er [5512]
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Orange Blooded [3629]
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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Taylor is in the 88, any rumblings he may focus on baseball?***
Jan 9, 2023, 10:28 AM
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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If anything this is more evidence that Dabo's view of the
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Jan 9, 2023, 11:09 AM
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portal hasn't really changed. He still seems to see the portal as a place to fill numbers rather than a place to pluck a few impact players / key contributors.
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Head Coach [784]
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Re: If anything this is more evidence that Dabo's view of the
Jan 9, 2023, 12:18 PM
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How dare you use common sense on this board and take the discussion back to the basis of the problem?
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110%er [7159]
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Re: If anything this is more evidence that Dabo's view of the
Jan 9, 2023, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to If anything this is more evidence that Dabo's view of the ] |
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This isn’t an either / or situation.
We are seeking portal players that are high impact to fill out roster numbers.
If anything, we will go after the selected high impact type of portal player at a position of need.
For example, in 2022 recruiting cycle, we went after UVA super stud Center (Olutawimi) because our experienced Centers were hurt, not experienced, or former walk-on that could not play at a high level.
Our QB position is currently populated with unproven talent.
Should we have gone great guns after a good and experienced portal QB such as Devin Leary? At this time (including our loss to TN in the Orange Bowl), Leary is better than any QB on our roster.
What consequence to our QB unit might you foretell if we brought Leary aboard?
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All-TigerNet [13038]
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It's obvious we don't need a QB from the portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 3:10 PM
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But don't tell me we couldn't use help at WR or OL.
And we don't have spots available because Dabo didn't prioritize leaving any scholarships for transfers.
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Freshman [2]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:26 PM
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Answer: Why don't we quit giving out scholarships or even half to players from Daniel, family, friends, etc? This will make room for real talent to come in
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110%er [7159]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 1:54 PM
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Try reading the posts in this thread if you are trying to get a better understanding.
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Freshman [2]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:28 PM
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Answer: Why don't we quit giving out scholarships or even half to players from Daniel, family, friends, etc? This will make room for real talent to come in
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110%er [5375]
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This may have been said, but just because we are full....
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:40 PM
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....doesn't mean we shouldn't hit the portal, right?. Is Dabo certain there are NO kids in the portal w/ more experience, more playing time, more upside than everyone currently on our roster? Should our loyalty be to keep all 88 on our roster be more important/valuable than replacing our "misses" w/ a better player who is in the portal? Thoughts?
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110%er [7159]
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Re: This may have been said, but just because we are full....
Jan 9, 2023, 1:56 PM
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You too, RU4GOS2.
Take the time to read through the numerous posts in the thread if you want to understand this better.
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Walk-On [115]
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The bottom line
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Jan 9, 2023, 12:50 PM
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Dabo didn't like the portal so didn't pay much attention to it early on. Now that his approach is an obvious mistake, he's playing catch up. Imagine if an NFL team said "we aren't taking free agents, we're just building through the draft." That GM and coach would be fired the next day.
Like it or not, this is college football today. Just like with free agency in the NFL, some guys pan out, some don't, but you can't ignore it as a means to upgrade talent.
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Scout Team [169]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 3:38 PM
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I had to smile when I read the Swinney quote about the microwave and the crock pot. It is wonderfully descriptive, describing what he prefers--- in house, in house, in house. "The Athletic" has had three articles in the past week on college football recruiting, the last one today. In all three, Clemson receives a single mention, and always negatively about where we stand versus the truly elite programs.
Coach has a portal excuse this year (at least for the moment) because he is out of scholarships. However, this rationalization is about quantity, not quality. The portal is not brand new, and I think a coach who is determined to have an elite program would save a few scholarships for portal arrivals. If you are resisting the portal, you won't, and he hasn't.
I am sure Coach thinks he can return to the top of the mountain doing what he has done that got us there before. I'm for sure no football expert, and he is, but I don't see that imagined route to the top as realistic. The top programs are grabbing 5 stars in substantial numbers. That explains Alabama, and now the new Alabama, called Georgia. The weaker the recruiting, the more important the portal.
Interestingly, Oklahoma has had a very strong 2023 recruiting, so maybe one off-field difference between the 2023 Clemson staff and those from earlier years is Venables' absence.
Other readers tend to focus on what they feel are less than stellar on-field skills within the coaching staff. Perhaps the indictment should be broader, because Clemson has fallen behind the elites in getting the very top talent. With our world class facilities, easy path to post-season play, and prior successes, we should be doing better than that.
And, of course, the portal issue lingers. I just have to wonder if Coach S would be so resistant to change if he was without a long term, mega-millions contract. He's in a great spot, even if his program, seeking a return to eliteness, isn't.
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Letterman [286]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
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Jan 9, 2023, 5:50 PM
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We need to look for high quality players who see a rebuild year at their current school and try to lock them in to help us. We NEED deep threat WRs, CBs, TEs. Bama , OSU , USC , FSU even the chickens have all improved their teams through the transfer portal . We need to use it as well. Offensive linemen and defensive linemen I feel you have to develop through recruiting and development.
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Rock Defender [66]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 6:52 PM
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The talent is already there on both sides of the ball. Clemson lacked that SEC attack mode on both side of the ball this past season. There were spurts… but no consistency. Get the attack back.
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Standout [331]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 9, 2023, 8:29 PM
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If only
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Associate AD [840]
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You can have more than 85 on campus in spring/summer
Jan 9, 2023, 10:17 PM
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per the mid-year replacement rule. Catch is, each year you have to award all 85 scholarships and can backfill if you signed fewer than 25 the previous year(s) by the old rule. If ten players were graduating in the spring, you could replace then with 10 mid-year enrollees and have 95 on scholarship in the spring. Per the old rules, Clemson was at an advantage because of all the built-up margin from typically signing fewer than 25. They've relaxed a lot of the restrictions after the transfer portal.
When classes start in the Fall, the limit is 85. And you need to have all 85 spots taken to use the mid-year replacement rule the next January.
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Letterman [290]
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Re: TNET: The latest on Clemson and the transfer portal
Jan 10, 2023, 1:33 AM
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I just came here to see all the message board warriors have a meltdown about the Transfer Portal. (Lol emoji)
Funny how Kirby's ESPN post game said they signed zero transfers and are sellers in the portal. Same thing Dabo said this year. o_O
2022 Transfer Portal Rankings per 24/7:
13. TCU
57. Michigan
73. Ohio State
157. Clemson
179. Georgia
Teams that didn't win their conference championship or make the playoffs:
1. USC
4. Oklahoma
6. Alabama
9. GameCoots
3/4 lost their bowl game too. (lol emoji)
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