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Replies: 44
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TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 7:30 PM
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Trainer [26]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 7:48 PM
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Hellfire was a sad looking offense and Cade and Will need to practice hand offs look like pop warner football....
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:13 PM
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Our zone read play has become a high risk play.
That may be one of the unique aspects of our “Dirt Raid” offense.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 7, 2023, 9:05 PM
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Would love an honest explanation but doubt we'd ever get one. I think Shipley wanted the ball as he always does but Cade made the right read. He may still be running.
If Cade meant to hand it off and Shipley bobbled it, it was a bad read. But the replay, it clearly looked like Cade was trying to pull it. He knew he had grass.
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Orange Blooded [3628]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 9:08 PM
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Well, identity and a fluid offense today.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 11:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day ] |
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My hope of a newly energized creative offense was dashed in the Duke game. I don’t know or care what the stats show but using the eye test we look no better on offense at all. Thank God for our front four and our LBs bc they are our team. This O line was pathetic last year and it’s pathetic this year. Had to switch over periodically to Bama TAM to see what real football actually looks like anymore. Come on Coach Swinney!!! Put down the Pom poms and start chewing some a$ $ and start with your coaches!! It’s unwatchable football! Go Tigers get with it !!
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Orange Blooded [3223]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 7:53 PM
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It was painful to watch. We learned Syracuse is much worse than their record. The deep subs on defense and playing prevent almost cost us the game. You don’t run deep subs out unless it’s a blowout.
The offensive line couldn’t run block kindergarteners. They hold up ok on pass blocking until Cade holds it too long. He didn’t go through progressions and stared his targets down. Whatever ground Riley was making with him was lost. This isn’t one of Wakes better teams. We should have blown them out. Thank GOD we have a week off!
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All-TigerNet [12879]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:09 PM
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Thank goodness we have a defense!
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day ] |
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For the second consecutive week, our RG play was poor; this spoiled an otherwise OK performance by our OL.
Similar to Syracuse, WF ran a lot of run blitzes on defense. Our opponents have learned that Clemson’s “Air Raid” offense is little more than a clever moniker that can’t cover up our non threatening pass offense. Our opponents go with a heavy run defense scheme; this chokes our run offense. Not until late in a game will opponents with less quality depth in their defense unit wear out and then start yielding yards to our run game.
CK2’s scramble yards inflated our run game stats. On designed run plays, our output during the first 3 quarters spoke for itself. This will be the case for the rest of 2023 until our “Air Raid” offense can establish itself as a legit threat and force our opponents to stack the box and/or run blitz us to death.
As for CK2, I have no argument against anything you pointed out.
At this stage, I hope that CK2’s pace of development is fast enough that, by the start of 2034 season, he’ll have learned his way to being ready to win an ACC title.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 7:57 PM
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It feels like both of our coordinators are very good, but nearly all the position coaches are bad. Every detail seems to be done poorly, especially on offense. There are bad drops, poor blocking on the OL & by receivers and overall poor tackling by the defense. It's tough to swallow when so many of the position coaches are inexperienced former Clemson players who have no business coaching at this level at this point in their careers.
247 Sports has Clemson ranked as the 5th most talented roster in the nation, but in a 1 score game we've got a 5'9" walk on wide receiver getting the ball while guys like Troy Stellato sits on the bench. That's not even considering the fact that Clemson would be a top destination for so many of the best transfer players out there, but the staff refuses to use the portal.
Dabo has brought the program to the mountain top, but it looks like his ego (coaching hires, unwillingness to use the transfer portal) will bring us back to the Bowden-era of Clemson football. It's been a good run, I guess!
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:05 PM
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You might be a little early to start throwing dirt on the coffin. We did suck today and for a homecoming game it looked like the offense was just going through the motions.
Cade had a bad game and looked like a QB in way over his head.
But it ain’t over yet and we can still have a good year, if the Offense starts to play like they can. Let’s see how the next couple of games go before give up and have a funeral or say good season and let’s do better next year.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:27 PM
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We will be very good again next year. This prognostication is predicated on the assumption that CK2’s maturation process will be complete for the start of 2024 season.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day ] |
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I agree with you to a degree...I think Cade is a very good QB who just needs more experience, but when he's on he looks great. I joked with friends last week after the Syracuse game that Clemson in its current state is like a terribly maintained Ferrari. If it's running, then it can beat any other car on the road in a race. The issue is it's constantly breaking down.
If this were the first year of sloppy play (especially on offense) it would be one thing, but it's not. We changed OCs in the offseason but a lot more should have been changed and it's showing on the field right now.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:00 PM
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We have to have our power running game going or we will struggle. As usual, Wake was not afraid of our receivers which means we have to run Cade, Mafah and Shipley. Our running backs will not outrun defenses, but they can get the job done and get the tough yards and that is our identity.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:32 PM
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Until such time as our passing game becomes a consistent threat, our run game will be pretty much ### we have.
Opponents will continue to run-blitz us to death and load the box to stop our run game. We need to hit our check downs and learn to throw the ball as soon as the receiver gets open. Our QB waits too long before throwing to the open receiver. He stares them until they are no longer open, and then either scrambles (where he’s pretty good) or throw the ball away. Or sometimes force it into coverage.
There is a lot of uphill road on the learning curve for our QB.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 7, 2023, 10:19 PM
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Cade most definitely needs to be able trust his receivers and throw in rhythm.
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Orange Blooded [2868]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:02 PM
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The inability to convert run plays into first downs (with 3 or less yds to go) for me is the single biggest issue making this offense clunky. You can’t get fast paced tempo going and get into a rhythm when 2nd and short becomes 3rd and slightly worse too often. The same situation is even worse on 3rd and short. Reasonably good success with pass blocking is effectively negated. It becomes a glaring problem in the red zone.
Riley has to figure out how to call a game plan that basically concedes our Oline can’t run block using zone technique with the box overloaded. They just aren’t good enough to hold up against even the lesser Dlines. It’s time to stop running into this brick wall and scheme something different. I believe Riley is trying to compensate with the screen game but drops and terrible WR blocking is not helping.
I think they will need to get Cade better at reading the RPO and keeping the ball more often to help succeed with cut backs away from the Dline surge, or go with more two back alignment and beat them with more misdirection. However, here again they have to get competent blocking from the line. I wish they would abandon zone blocking on short yardage and just get the Oline low to win the leverage battle.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 9:49 PM
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Totally agree. Everyone was jumping up and down doing cartwheels beating cuse by 17 points but they really didn't watch the game. Fortunately cuse gave us short fields and was the lightest dline we face all year and perhaps our best wr blocks all season. But the same problems existed in that game too. People tend to forget we punted 6 possessions last week. Good assessment.
I do agree with others that we could use more experience in position coaches. Development is just not there.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:30 PM
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It's more than just "lack of an identity." Very frustrating. It would probably be better if we just didn't make comments like, "watching a player grow up before our eyes." Or, "just a few plays away from being 6-0." Ignoring the truth is what got Clemson to this point. I kinda agree with coach Prime when he said that he wasn't going to lie to a kid if he wasn't good enough for his team. Sticking with DJ for two years killed this team.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:34 PM
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Sticking with diablos lies and hubris and loyalty to family friends is killing this program!! We became irrelevant the day BV left. Until Diablo gets “that guy” back, we are a Tommy Bowden program!!
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All-TigerNet [10824]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 9:24 PM
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Its Dabo and we are not getting CBV back. So give it a rest Blubber.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day ] |
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We stuck with DJU for two years because our alternative for 2021 was T.Phommachan and our option for 2022 was a not-ready-to-play CK2. DJU was the best among poor alternatives.
This year we’ve seen with our own eyes why CK2 didn’t replace DJU until DJU’s confidence collapsed for good during the S.Carolina game. (Last year’s UNC team had a plain awful defense. Other than our patsy opponents, UNC had the worst defense from among all the rest of our opponents. UNC’s defense has improved immeasurable between 2022 and 2023.)
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 10:24 PM
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We never should've recruited DJ . We didn't need him. We could've waited another recruiting season for our next All American QB
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 8, 2023, 9:15 AM
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Don't remember one person complaining about DJU in 2020 when with a healthy WR room and a healthy OL he broke every freshman record there was and lit up Notre Dame for the most yards EVER against them. DJU was fine with ballers around him first year starting he played 13 Games with one offensive lineman Jordan McFadden! The other 11 starters missed significant time. Including all his WRs and RBs. 2022 was more the same with the WRs and the OL. Kid is doing well at Oregon st. as well. Fans attacked coach Street and DJU for the last 2 seasons with no resolve for the personnel on the field. It was absolutely irresponsible and honestly quite dumb. Now here we are with all the fans getting what they absolutely dreamed of and yet sit and complain all the same. New OC and New QB and yet the fans still complain even in victory. It's Disgusting to see, read, and listen too. I've been a fan watching this team since 1977 and seen teams that were just bad as well as good teams poorly coached. Dabo Swinney has proven he can win football games and championships. Yet when he doesn't this fanbase thinks they have been cheated and tries to make believe that know better than the coaches on the field! Wake Forest played arguably their best game defensively Saturday and Clemson played arguably their worst game offensively for 3qtrs. Yet Clemson won the game. This offense is incredibly young. They have a WR room with one WR who has played significant football (Collins). Brown, Stellato, Green, Randall, all are young with little to no experience. Collins is coming off injury the last 2 years and hasn't played much football since he was a true freshman. Williams is hurt and not playing. So our passing game is suffering and the other teams know it. They are loading up against the run and daring us to beat them throwing the football. And you are right it's working to a degree. But you are wrong in saying it is costing us games. 200 yds rushing is an almost guaranteed win for Clemson. They reached the number and won. Hopefully they will do it in the last 6 games, because if they do they will win all 6. Oh and don't be surprised if they do it and get another shot at FSU. If they do they will be the ACC Champions too. This team goes 10-2 regardless of a championship or not it will be again a third year of Dabo Swinney and staff doing their best job coaching, considering the adversity faced over the last 3 years with injuries. And remember this team loses very little next year on both sides of the ball! Exciting times folks. Enjoy it! Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1729]
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DJU is the same roller coaster who lost starting-job to Cade
Oct 8, 2023, 1:38 PM
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I've watched DJU play every game (except Cal last night on the invisible PAC-12 network, where statistically he had a great game). But he's been up and down, just like he was at Clemson. He throws some beautiful NFL-caliber passes and some unforgivable misses and interceptions, just like at Clemson. He still stares down receivers. He plays well some games and crappy other games, just like at Clemson. He stunk it up in a loss to WSU (50% completions) and in a win at home against lowly SDSU (46.7% completions, and 2 INTs). He played pretty well against Utah (56%, 1TD, 1 INT). I wish him the best but Klubnik is an upgrade. It's unfortunate that the Clemson staff had to spend so many reps trying to get DJ up to speed that Klubnik got no 1st-team reps last year (as we shockingly found out in the post-game interview after the ACCCG). Klubnik as got very few garbage-time reps because DJ needed the work and DJ rarely got us into garbage-time situations.
I wish DJU all the best, but he's still the same QB. Klubnik is an inexperienced upgrade with a higher ceiling.
After watching UNC destroy Cuse and ND go toe-to-toe with tOSU, I doubt that we'll go 10-2. Hope I'm wrong.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 9, 2023, 12:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day ] |
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DJ, threw 5 TD's Saturday, he may make a great MFL QB, he came out of high school as a pro-style QB and was not suited for RPO.
It's more than just "lack of an identity." Very frustrating. It would probably be better if we just didn't make comments like, "watching a player grow up before our eyes." Or, "just a few plays away from being 6-0." Ignoring the truth is what got Clemson to this point. I kinda agree with coach Prime when he said that he wasn't going to lie to a kid if he wasn't good enough for his team. Sticking with DJ for two years killed this team.
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All-Pro [657]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 8:47 PM
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Dabo needs to wake up before its to late...
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 9:31 PM
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No doubt coaching is a huge issue for us, plus game after game of mistakes. But we also just don’t have the players. On offense, we got spoiled during the Watson-Gallman-Williams-Renfrow era, followed by the Lawrence-Etienne-Renfrow-Higgins era. We have no one on our current offense even in that league. Cade is no Deshaun or Trevor, Shipley and Mafah are not Gallman or Etienne. And except for a still-inexperienced Tyler Brown, we have no receivers remotely as good as Williams-Renfrow-Higgins.
Also, the hardest job to recruit for in college football is the offensive line. It’s an anonymous, thankless job with no NIL offers coming their way. And the OL is where we have struggled for several years. No easy fixes either.
On defense, we no longer have Brent Venables. ‘Nuff said. But we also have no Skalski, Boulware, Simmons, Dexter Lawrence or Christian Wilkins.
We love our Tigers. We love our university. We love what Dabo Swinney has done for Clemson football and should be eternally grateful. But for three years running we have not had a CFP team. And I don’t see us having one with the kinds of players we are getting. i am sure they are fine youg men, and I hope they have long, productive, happy lives. But they are not elite players.
This is hard for us to adjust to after the national chamionship years. But that is the reality.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 7, 2023, 10:40 PM
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Does UGA, OSU, Michigan, Texas, Notre Dame or FSU have problems recruiting O-linemen; just asking ?
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 7, 2023, 10:26 PM
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Did you watch the Spring Game?
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Three and out on that 9 yd. Shipley run then screen pass
Oct 7, 2023, 9:31 PM
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that fails? I wish!
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 7, 2023, 10:02 PM
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We need new position coaches. Simple as that. New WR and Oline coach at minimum, and we need to fill the gaps through the portal. Halfway through the season and I just want to fast forward to the off-season. Not looking forward to Miami, ND, UNC, or SC. Worried we are going to be a .500 team.
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CU Guru [1729]
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The Clemson team that played down to Wake yesterday...
Oct 8, 2023, 1:47 PM
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... wouldn't beat Miami, ND, UNC, or SCAR, and might even be in a dog-fights with NCSU & GT. Hopefully a different Clemson team (especially an improved O) shows up starting with @Miami.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 10:35 PM
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Quick observations; Offensive line is soft. Two many Rob Spence Bubble screens. Cade seems to be forced have to scramble to his left means he has to throw across his body. Still do not know who is actually calling the plays but whoever it is needs to be put in "time-out"!
Now anybody want to talk defense?
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Rock Defender [57]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 7, 2023, 10:56 PM
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We will lose at least 2 more games before yearend…. We are a poorly coached team of 4-5 stars.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day***
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Oct 8, 2023, 4:18 AM
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
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Oct 8, 2023, 9:52 AM
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Our play calling wouldn’t fool a blind person. If I’m a DC facing Clemson, here is what I expect.
1st down- Run inside the tackles
2nd down- Screen pass
3rd down and 5+ to go- Short pass or run which can be defended by the same formation.
Punt
Zero creativity or element of surprise.
The job of OC is to out think the DC.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 8, 2023, 9:53 AM
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THIS!!!
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CU Guru [1703]
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 8, 2023, 3:30 PM
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Good points David. The defense was put in a difficult position all day but they persevered.
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Re: TNET: Quick Observations: Clemson offense lacks identity, defense carries the day
Oct 9, 2023, 1:30 PM
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The offense always begins with the play of the offensive line!
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Replies: 44
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