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Replies: 9
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:31 AM
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On 4th down - If Cade had run out of bounds 1 yard short and drawn a late hit - would Clemson have been awarded the first down?
Or would duke have gotten the ball back and penalized 15 yards?
Also, why didn’t Duke start their drive 1st and 25 vs 1st and 10?
I understand the logic of the dead ball foul, but I don’t understand if it’s not applied consistently. Also, if that’s the rule then it doesn’t seem right to allow the team committing the personal foul to start 1st and 10.
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CU Guru [1309]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
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Sep 7, 2023, 9:33 AM
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Same outcome. Duke gets the ball. And it’s the right call.
What’s in question in my mind is the fact that the dead ball occurs at the moment he slides. The rest of the slide is considered dead ball.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:51 AM
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Yeah, it used to not be that way.
It’s the Kenny Pickett rule. The NCAA changed it after the 2021 season in response to his fake slide against wake forest where he ran for the TD.
"Any time a ball carrier begins, simulates, or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on field officials at that point. The intent of the rule is player safety, and the objective is to give a ball carrier an option to end the play by sliding feet first and to avoid contact. To allow the ball carrier to fake a slide would compromise the defense that is being instructed to let up when the ball carrier slides feet first. A fake slide will not be considered reviewable under Rule 12-3-3 – Dead Ball and Loose Ball."
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CU Guru [1177]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
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Sep 7, 2023, 9:37 AM
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Soon as he stepped out of bounds it became duke ball...anything after his foot his out of bounds became enforced on dukes poss
That's always been the rule, I've seen this dozens of times in football, not sure why ppl are confused about that call
Cade lost his composure and slid to soon
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:43 AM
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I’m with you. And that’s the way it should be.
Now, what’s the deal on the yardage. Explain to me why the offending team doesn’t start 1st and 25?
Dead ball false start gets you 1st and 15, right?
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110%er [6174]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:46 AM
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On a punt return where the returning team is penalized for a block in the back they start 1st and 10. Down and distance isn’t affected until the possession starts by running a play on 1st down.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:52 AM
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Ok. But that’s not a dead ball foul
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110%er [6174]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 9:54 AM
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The point is until you line up 1st and 10 to run a play no penalty yardage affects down and distance. A punt return or kickoff return are both semi dead ball plays that don’t affect down and distance of the returning team on change of possession.
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Orange Blooded [4023]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
Sep 7, 2023, 1:12 PM
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Ok, that makes sense
So the ball must be spotted for play to apply distance against the down
I think they need to take a look at this for 4th down dead ball targeting
Just doesn’t seem like the penalty fits the crime
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110%er [8540]
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Re: Rules question (4th down shenanigans)
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Sep 7, 2023, 10:10 AM
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The hit was after the play meaning possession occurred as soon as Cade started the slide. A dead ball personal foul, I would think, would happen after a runner is out of bounds. Crazy rule the dead ball is the key.
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