Replies: 25
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 5:25 PM
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Are the greens fried?
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Orange Blooded [3981]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 5:31 PM
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Zach Johnson is a notorious cry baby
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Hall of Famer [24529]
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He's actually the opposite.***
Jun 16, 2018, 5:49 PM
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Legend [17631]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 5:33 PM
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They couldn't find it because of all the tall rough.
Seriously, the wind has dried it out, greens and all.
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All-Pro [685]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 5:40 PM
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These whiney pro’s can’t handle it when they have to adjust their games to match conditions.If they aren’t putting every hole for birdie then it’s unfair.Cry babies if they had to play the courses most of us average golfers play they would really cry.lol
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All-In [38452]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 17, 2018, 7:41 AM
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If a pro played the courses most of us play ? Not calling you out my man .. but what tourney have you recently beaten any of these guys in ? I scoff at the idea that professional golfers would be intimidated by our local courses . Of course , I play around +30 so I whine about little ...knowing how goshawful I am .
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CU Medallion [68391]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 5:44 PM
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they are playing a 7400 yard course at par 70. granted they hit it a long way but it is a challenge. especially when windy and dried out
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All-Pro [663]
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Re: What did Zach Johnson mean “They’ve lost the golf course”?
Jun 16, 2018, 10:26 PM
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Quite agree- at that length no reason other than membership and USGA pride not to make it a par 72.
But even at that, no excuse for a barely touched 10' putt to roll 20' past. Unreasonable for high wedges to hit within 4' of a hole and have them roll 10 yards off the green. Loads of good shots today absolutely punished. Too many bouncing putts.
Shinnicock has a history of this but US Opens are too often ridiculously and artificially difficult, making it my least favorite of the majors.
Others replied more tactfully but Johnson was right and bravo for speaking up knowing there would be a backlash of nonsensical "crybaby" comments.
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Hall of Famer [24529]
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I hope he gets a chance to clarify. What I think he meant
Jun 16, 2018, 6:00 PM
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is that they let the greens get so over dried and unpredictable that the super hard pin placements meant that the golfers where no longer making good things happen but trying to not let bad things happen. A course can be made so hard that the person who eventually wins is not the guy who went out and made something happen, but is the result of the statistical requirement that someone has to win. Like winning the lottery. The US Open has indeed done that on several occasions. For instance, there are days when Augusta National plays at par or not much under, and no one complains, as it is hard but predictable: take your shot and live with the consequences. The US Open sometimes instead takes away the possibility of good shots, and makes less-than-perfect shots disasters, when golf is supposed to be about mananging less-than-perfect shots.
Is that true this time? No way we watching on TV can know. But if Zack says it, its not whining.
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Legend [18133]
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That may be the best post I've ever read
Jun 16, 2018, 10:45 PM
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on Tigernet.
Bar none.
Well done
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Hall of Famer [24529]
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I hope he gets a chance to clarify. What I think he meant
Jun 16, 2018, 6:01 PM
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is that they let the greens get so over dried and unpredictable that the super hard pin placements meant that the golfers where no longer making good things happen but trying to not let bad things happen. A course can be made so hard that the person who eventually wins is not the guy who went out and made something happen, but is the result of the statistical requirement that someone has to win. Like winning the lottery. The US Open has indeed done that on several occasions. For instance, there are days when Augusta National plays at par or not much under, and no one complains, as it is hard but predictable: take your shot and live with the consequences. The US Open sometimes instead takes away the possibility of good shots, and makes less-than-perfect shots disasters, when golf is supposed to be about mananging less-than-perfect shots.
Is that true this time? No way we watching on TV can know. But if Zack says it, its not whining.
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Orange Blooded [3047]
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It an't fun to play no more!***
Jun 16, 2018, 6:04 PM
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All-In [30930]
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I guess we can play the US Open @ Donaldson Center next year
Jun 16, 2018, 6:11 PM
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Since they want easy par 5's you can reach in one with a 5 wood.
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Orange Blooded [4286]
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Re: I guess we can play the US Open @ Donaldson Center next year
Jun 16, 2018, 6:43 PM
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Let one of them whine when Augusta puts a pin 10' from the water with a wind . They'll be playing in the Hu'nan/Beiping Thighland Open the next year in April..
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All-In [26218]
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Re: I guess we can play the US Open @ Donaldson Center next year
Jun 16, 2018, 7:18 PM
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What a discussion I heard on the T.V. today was they over cut everything causing the dry conditions. I know the frustrations of playing poorly because I go through that every time I play. These pros aren't use to it and feel the need to blame it on something. However, when the whole field is playing bad, its the course and not the players.
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CU Medallion [60277]
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when pros can't get it inside 40 feet there's issues
Jun 16, 2018, 7:37 PM
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I believe it was #14 they said that the closest birdie putt all day was 39 feet. Out of 67 PGA pros, best golfers in the world. That's insane.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Typical US Open.....
Jun 16, 2018, 8:09 PM
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USGA feels like they gotta make is stupid and especially at this venue. No grass on fairways, greens cut so short/hard/dry they gotta be running off the Stimpmeter charts. Toss in the hay for rough and you get the scores being shot at the OPEN. Gotta say it is no fun watching the best players flail about a course, it is much better when they play where one can at least shoot for a flag on some holes. This is like watching a slow moving train wreck instead of professionals playing golf. I shudder to think what I would post on that course and I am not too bad at the game.
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All-In [30930]
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I don't have an issue if all players play the same course
Jun 16, 2018, 8:20 PM
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You don't expect low numbers at the US Open. It's always been like that. The winner gets the same amount on his check no matter if his winning score is -10 or +10. I feel today's pro golfers don't want the mental challenge of a tough course with tough conditions and it's laughable.
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CU Guru [1907]
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Yup, they all gotta finish the same 72 holes
Jun 16, 2018, 8:28 PM
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Thing is there can be challenging and just plain silly, we have neared silly again at this venue. Nobody is trying to make a great shot out there, just trying to limit the damage by hitting it where it will cause the least pain.
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CU Medallion [60277]
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what you say is not totally untrue....
Jun 16, 2018, 8:43 PM
[ in reply to I don't have an issue if all players play the same course ] |
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but the reality is that all golfers did NOT play the same course today. Two guys who barely made the cut and started the day in 45th place find themselves tied for the lead and in the final group tomorrow. That is unprecedented in the history of major tournament golf. They shot 4 under, finishing before the leaders teed off. The guys in the last few groups probably didn't have 4 birdie putts all day.
The USGA didn't anticipate or provide for the very real possibility of the greens drying out to borderline unputtable conditions (which had happened just two days earlier), which they probably could have with more equitable pin placements. That is the point of contention from what I am seeing.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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usga said as much after the round was over***
Jun 16, 2018, 8:52 PM
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All-In [30930]
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True, but all courses play different for morning starters
Jun 16, 2018, 8:54 PM
[ in reply to what you say is not totally untrue.... ] |
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That happens everywhere. It would be a bold sandbagging move to intentionally try to score worse on Saturday to get the easier early tee time on Sunday and look to shoot ten under for a comeback win.
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CU Medallion [60277]
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it is almost always "easier" for morning players
Jun 16, 2018, 9:08 PM
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because of weather changes, bumpiness from traffic around the hole, grass growing during the day, etc. True.
But this course has a history of the USGA "losing the greens"; all we heard all week was how bad it was in 2004 the last time it was played at Shinnecock. They KNEW this could happen. Yet they allowed it to happen.
I don't really care, as all I want is a close competitive finish, not some runaway 8 stroke win by somebody. I'm glad it tightened up. I'm just pointing out what is being discussed on Golf Channel and other media, that this could have, and should have, been somewhat prevented.
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110%er [6702]
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They cut down 500 trees, the wind break, from what I have
Jun 16, 2018, 8:05 PM
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heard...
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All-TigerNet [10792]
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Re: They cut down 500 trees, the wind break, from what I have
Jun 16, 2018, 10:04 PM
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They did cut down a lot of trees, but that is not what made the conditions so difficult. The USGA admitted (kinda) that they made some mistakes, but when some of the earlier players shot 4 under par, how were they supposed to set the course up? If you set it up where players can shoot 66 in the afternoon, what are the early players going to shoot 62? I think about the only mistake they made was the flagstick placement on about 3 greens, but even at that they were all playing the same course.
Professional golfers know how far they hit every club and every shot. The wind, temperature, moisture, and other climatic factors can cause problems, but what really cause problems is when the players do not know when their ball is going to stop. Thus firm fairways, and particularly greens, create havoc because the player does not know if his 150 yard 9-iron is going to stop in 10' or 50' once it lands.
Several years ago Zach Johnson went around Chambers Bay (2015 Open Venue) with one of the course architects and most of the way around complained that on practically every hole, he did not know where to hit his drives. Toward the end of the round, he admitted that he liked the course because it made him "think" ...... something that most modern gofers are not used to doing. They all play alike, have very similar games, and are basically just robots. Much of that is due to the equipment, but that's another subject.
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Oculus Spirit [94305]
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High stakes gambling.
Jun 16, 2018, 10:43 PM
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Never bet the farm or the course.
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