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Orange Blooded [4891]
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Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 12, 2017, 11:08 PM
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Not sure why he had to get his panties so tightly wadded in defending Jackson's Heisman win. He made a big deal about not counting post season play when talking about who should have won but conveniently ignored very ordinary to downright bad performances by Jackson in the last three regular season games.
Is he still stinging from the loss we handed to his beloved Tide?
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Letterman [255]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 12, 2017, 11:17 PM
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You Clemson fans just don't get it. He had bad performances in the last 3 games due to O-line depth and injuries and was running for his life in those last games. Before that he hands down was the best player in the country. If he had your O-line, he would have continued his outstanding numbers to end the season.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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You think they looked bad the last few games of the season?
Sep 12, 2017, 11:26 PM
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Just wait til CW is knuckles deep on Saturday.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 12, 2017, 11:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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So, you're telling us that your O-Line is weak, and your 2 deep can't even protect him and beat Houston or Kentucky....am I getting that right? Better hope they hold up vs Dex and Wilkins, especially that freshman center.
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All-In [38463]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 12, 2017, 11:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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I'm old enough to remember when a single bad game would eliminate some really great players from Heisman consideration. Nowadays the award is given away frivoulously and with the media hype at an all time high , the player only needs a couple of great games early and the race is run . Winners win . If LJ were the greatest player in college football he wouldn't lose to Kentucky or Clemson or Houston or LSU ...and you blaming his team for that failure is why nobody who actually understands the game respects that award any longer .
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CU Guru [1944]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 7:01 AM
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DING DING DING!! We have a winner!
Thank you Td23
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All-In [40930]
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Orange Blooded [2249]
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Slight disagreement.
Sep 13, 2017, 9:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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I don't think he should necessarily lose the award-which-must-not-be-named if his team lost to "Kentucky or Clemson or Houston or LSU." But his team actually lost to Kentucky AND Clemson AND Houston AND LSU.
He won it because he's a very elusive runner. Best quarterback? Nah. And certainly not the best leader. The award is a joke. Too bad.
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110%er [5287]
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110%er [6882]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 9:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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Not to mention that they use to at least take some note of character. I quit holding that award in high regard once they gave it to a couple of guys with one foot in Alcatraz. Not including LJ in this group as he seems like an ok kid.
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Mascot [21]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 6:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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So on that basis I could reasonably conclude that Watson didn't deserve the Heisman because he didn't beat Pittsburgh?
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Orange Blooded [2535]
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Athletic Dir [881]
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He fumbled while striking a "Heisman" pose
Sep 13, 2017, 5:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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near the goal line. His numbers were the direct result of having to run around. With a decent OL, he would have been expected to sit back and pass better downfield, which was his weakness last year.
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All-In [40930]
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Re: He fumbled while striking a "Heisman" pose
Sep 13, 2017, 8:00 AM
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Ouch! You had to bring that one up to the card fan didn't you?+1
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 6:08 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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Wow. You guys lost to Kentucky? and Houston? and LSU? Wow - you guys really sucked didn't you? I can't imagine DW4 losing to those cripples, even if he had NO OLINE. Jackson must be overrated. Keep living the dream, 'cause the nightmare begins SATURDAY. LOL
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Hall of Famer [24295]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 1:41 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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the ONLY reason Lamar won the heisman is because he plays and produces essentially playing 2 positions.
you know he is yalls running back too. He gets running back numbers.
Yawn.
NOT MY HEISMAN!
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CU Guru [1222]
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Besides the Heisman, what did Lousiville win last year?
Sep 13, 2017, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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National Title? ahhhh no CFP Playoff Game? ahhhh no Bowl Game? ahhhh no Conference Title? ahhhh no Division Title? ahhhh no State Bragging Rights? ahhhh no
So Lamar's talent did what for his team?
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Legend [15492]
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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Jackson is a great player, no doubt. But he was awarded last year's Heisman when he hurdled that Syracuse player in, what, week 2?
Jackson also padded stats in the 4th quarters of games in which Watson would not have finished. That's a fact.
Why not present such a prestigious award after the games have been played?
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Y'all had a better oline than us. Jackson's decision making
Sep 13, 2017, 7:05 PM
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Another amazingly idiotic comment by queenie. What a surprise. Their o line was not anywhere near as good as ours. Shocker you're the only one who would say that.
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Legend [15764]
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These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that
Sep 12, 2017, 11:23 PM
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LJ won over DW. It's that he was crowned in September by ESPN because of the FSU game. Not that he didn't have great games after that, but if you look at all 12 games, it's a different story. But ESPN shoved him down everyone's throats and dismissed every bad play while acting like Watson just threw interceptions all day. Three games to go and they would begin their analysis with "well, LJ is going to win it, but yeah, he wasn't his usual amazing self."
Couple ESPN's cheerleading with the Heisman Committee's inexplicable allowance of early voting, and yes, most Clemson fans think it was a joke.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that
Sep 12, 2017, 11:37 PM
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Here, it's explained really quick.
Lamar = trophy/award for being the best PLAYER (while his position is QB)
but
Deshaun = award for being the best QB (while his position is QB)...the Davey O'Brien award
It's cool, they had the best "player" who couldn't win the trophy for his own position...or the trophy for his conference...or trophy for the Natty. Why does that seem so odd?
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Legend [18046]
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Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that
Sep 12, 2017, 11:41 PM
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He can win the same way that a non-conference winner can in theory win the CFP championship. Some people have a problem with that but I don't.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that
Sep 12, 2017, 11:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that ] |
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Let's add to it...the years a QB won the Heisman.
2014: Marcus Mariota...Davey O'Brien winner: Marcus Mariota
2013: Jameis Winston...Davey O'brien Winner: Jameis Winston
2012: Johnny Manziel...Davey O'Brien Winner: Johnny Manziel
2011: RGIII...Davey O'Brien Winner: RGIII
2010: Cam Newton...Davey O'Brien Winner: Cam Newton
2008: Sam Bradford...Davey O'Brien Winner: Sam Bradford
2007: Tim Tebow...Davey O'Brien Winner: Tim Tebow
2006: Troy Smith....Davey O'Brien winner: Troy Smith
2017: Lamar Jackson...Davey O'Brien winner: Deshaun Watson
Anything seem odd?? Bet you won't find one article that says Lamar should have had the Davey O'Brien...but how about the other way???
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Legend [15764]
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I think you're missing the point. Rest assured, I am aware
Sep 13, 2017, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that ] |
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that LJ is an exceptionally talented athlete and football player. I am commenting on the manipulation that ESPN conducts on the award. It is unnecessary, self-serving and ultimately demeans the award. And it did. ESPN, put simply, has become drunk with power. It's not enough to broadcast our beloved sports. They have to control them. And it's a detriment to. The sport and to ESPN in the long run.
The use of our name to describe losing a game you shouldn't is another example. It didn't matter that the reputation was absurd or that every school in the country loses games they shouldn't. ESPN pushed it anyway.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: I think you're missing the point. Rest assured, I am aware
Sep 13, 2017, 9:42 AM
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Nope, I got the point. You're saying that ESPN ignored Lamar Jackson's 200 gazillion fumbles while they harped on Watson's interceptions.
What I'm saying is what I posted is a bigger reason the Clemson fans think the outcome of this one was a joke...11 years worth of Heisman winning QB's, and every one of them won the award for being the best at their position as well, until this one.
I don't see how you can be a QB, win the award for being the best overall "player", but you don't win the main award for the exact position you play, QB. If there was a QB that was awarded for being the best QB that same year, and Lamar IS a QB, then there was a better "player" at his position. Or are we saying the Heisman was awarded to a running back??
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110%er [5287]
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Re: I think you're missing the point. Rest assured, I am aware
Sep 13, 2017, 10:00 AM
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I also don't get this interesting tidbit.
Head-to-head matchup comparison.
QB A: 64.5% Completions, 5 TD's, 306 yards passing, 91 yards rushing, 9.9 yd/pass average, 6.5 yards per rush average
QB B: 61.3% Completions, 3 TD's, 295 yards passing, 162 yards rushing, 6.7 yd/pass average, 5.2 yards per rush average
Which looks like the better player in the head to head game??
One won the game, one lost.
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Legend [18046]
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Re: These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that
Sep 12, 2017, 11:38 PM
[ in reply to These talking heads are clueless. It's not just that ] |
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The Charlotte game got him going fast out of the gate. FSU destruction put him further ahead. His performance in almost single handedly beating Clemson (yeah yeah five turnovers, blah blah) sealed the deal.
Clemson had its part in awarding the trophy to Lamar.
He did fade as the season ended but he was too far in front for it to matter. And until the rules change, it is a regular full season trophy.
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CU Medallion [54320]
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Walk-On [143]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 12:10 AM
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I remember a play last year where he was sacked by the Clemson D. He came up from the pile ripped off his helmet and began yelling at the refs. He looked like he was going to cry. There was no flag on the play and he was allowed to not sit out the required one play for his helmet. So what if Boulware had him in a choke-hold at the bottom of the pile. The fact is he is easily rattled and prone to spinning out when things do not go his way.
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Mascot [21]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 8:56 AM
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> So what if Boulware had him > in a choke-hold at the bottom of the pile. The fact > is he is easily rattled and prone to spinning out > when things do not go his way.
So your take is that it was okay to have a choke hold on LJ, but his reaction was not okay? I've seen how upset Clemson fans are that DW didn't win the Heisman, so I'm pretty sure that if ANYONE had Watson in a choke hold last year this place would have gone ballistic, but the fact that it was the thug Boulware that did it to LJ, it was okay.
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Orange Blooded [2020]
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yes , dude it makes it ok****
Sep 13, 2017, 9:56 AM
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nm
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Hall of Famer [24295]
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110%er [8681]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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You mean like this? At least Boulware was in the motion of bringing Lamar down, your guys are straight up just grabbing for the neck trying to choke DW4.
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson ] |
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Thug?
yeah, and kicking a guy twice in the sides afterwards isn't "thug":
And like CU_Kobe_24 just showed....you were saying? Same game there, card.
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Oculus Spirit [94415]
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Considering ESPiN's cutbacks of Sr. commentators...
Sep 13, 2017, 8:01 AM
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and the promotion of beat reporters it's obvious they are failing. I just don't understand why they don't know why their failure is so miserable. The mouse is a real dumbazz.
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Orange Blooded [3521]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 8:37 AM
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Like Dabo said, DeShaun was the best player in the country. And like Paul Finebaum said on Monday, I voted for Lamar Jackson for Heisman and then I had remorse.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Jackson was the reason for their late season losses...
Sep 13, 2017, 6:10 PM
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They can blame Lville's oline all they want, but Lville's oline played better than ours. Lamar Jackson's decision making became a liability for Lville as the season went on. Most of the sacks on him was from him looking to run when his first option was covered.
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Orange Blooded [4378]
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Re: Jackson was the reason for their late season losses...
Sep 13, 2017, 7:13 PM
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Hahaha. Good lord.
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All-In [44258]
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The problem is that voting is allowed before the season is over.
Sep 13, 2017, 7:26 PM
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A lot of people voted early last year. Not only were the playoffs excluded (and they shouldn't be), but many people voted before Jackson's poor games at the end of the season.
Besides, as others have already noted, the Heisman is won the first 6-8 games of the season. ESPN decides who they want to promote, and unless the player regresses significantly, he will continue to be the candidate they are promoting.
Lamar Jackson benefited from some big performances early in the year. Make no mistake, he put up GREAT numbers last year - but historically, a player must put up those numbers and also play for one of the top teams. Jackson didn't, as it turned out. But when many people voted, Louisville had only lost once or twice, and nobody expected the late season collapse.
I believe that Watson was the best player last year, but based on stats alone, Jackson was better. Deshaun didn't help himself with so many interceptions either. It's honestly too bad, because Deshaun still had really good stats, some huge wins, and played for the best team. Plus, he is a high character guy.
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Orange Blooded [4048]
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Re: Just listened to McElroy's rant about Jackson
Sep 13, 2017, 7:51 PM
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Vince Young got hosed too, but that fuels the fire.
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