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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:38 AM
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while only having 13 seniors, it would appear that Coach Swinney anticipated portal exits. We aren't losing starters. I view the exits as an upgrade opportunity. For example, I would love to get a Chris Johnson in lieu of Kobe Pace. Like Pace, but Mafah is a faster stronger version of Pace. We need a speed guy. He can also play receiver.
The game Saturday night showed that we aren't as far off from the top 4 teams as thought and are much better at WR, OL, and OC/playcaller than was thought by many. It's okay for those people to reassess the situation with the new confirming info and the predictably obvious impact a QB has on the offense and overall team. It's okay to make a mistake. Take a step back from the megaphone. Though, I doubt that happens.
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110%er [6139]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:42 AM
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Getting some players that have been out of HS for a couple of years would probably be beneficial for adding help next season.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:45 AM
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Yes. It is not generally a good idea to replace transfers with true freshmen. Hit the transfer portal for WRs and RBs.
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Varsity [204]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:47 AM
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No starters, but we are losing depth and experience. In the past our depth on both sides would just wear teams down as we used our backups almost as much as our starters. Like against Alabama in the national championship games.
They would come out chomping at the bite, blow all their energy in the first quarter or half. Then bam, the game starts to reverse in terms of energy.
So I hate losing some of these guys. But they are adults now and can make their own choices. I hope the best for all of them. We are going to need depth, so to me we are going to HAVE to get players from the portal. I don't think we can replace all that we are losing with high school players at the moment.
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All-In [44055]
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This is a good point, and perhaps part of the reason why
Dec 5, 2022, 12:25 PM
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we don't use tempo and motion on offense like we used to. That requires some level of quality depth, and we don't have the depth we did several years ago.
I assumed that the slow pace on offense was purely philosophical by our coaches, based on their preference, but maybe there is more to it.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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You assume the lack of tempo was "purely philosophical?"
Dec 5, 2022, 12:34 PM
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I got a chuckle out of that.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:50 AM
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replacing 10-15 players every single year with walkons and high school recruits is like a self imposed death penalty after about 4 years.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice
Dec 5, 2022, 12:00 PM
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for portal players?
Also, where are you getting the "10-15 transfers" per year number?
Wouldn't the portal allow a team to resolve recruiting misses much more quickly than was previously possible instead of your characterization as a death penalty?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice
Dec 5, 2022, 12:12 PM
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There's a few 3 stars that have no business even getting an offer from us.
We had 11 players portal out last year. We have 7 so far right now ON DAY 1. The #s will begin to grow every year
2019 7
2020 4
2021 11
2022 7 and counting
"Wouldn't the portal allow a team to resolve recruiting misses much more quickly than was previously possible instead of your characterization as a death penalty?"
You can't replace experience and physical development with walkons and high school players. I stand by what I said.
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All-In [44055]
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^^ THIS.***
Dec 5, 2022, 12:25 PM
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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So, not 10-15 transfers per year, but 7. Which transfers
Dec 5, 2022, 12:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice ] |
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that transferred this past year do you think we have missed the most? If you need to go back a few years, feel free.
I just don't see the problem with losing guys who have never or hardly ever contributed and replacing them with players who may be younger, but who can provide depth the next year or two and have greater starting potential later.
I don't get the outrage.
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: So, not 10-15 transfers per year, but 7. Which transfers
Dec 5, 2022, 12:32 PM
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It’s a talking point for the negative crowd. Doesn’t have to make sense.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: So, not 10-15 transfers per year, but 7. Which transfers
Dec 5, 2022, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to So, not 10-15 transfers per year, but 7. Which transfers ] |
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I'm saying it is going to be 10-15 each year and the trend is backing me up.
I made a case last year, and I still stand by it, that the mass exodus of QBs leaving in 2018 when Tlaw arrived is a direct impact on the negative development of DJ. DJ was the first QB since Will Proctor that did not go through an actual QB battle in spring and fall camp prior to becoming the starter. The first time DJ ever had to battle it out was this past year and he improved. I truly believe that had a lot to do with where he was at that point in 2021. Iron sharpens iron. We did not go to the portal in 2021 to get another piece of iron. Chase brice leaving hurt us in that regard. There are other examples at other positions as well. Our elite run was built on depth and pluging and playing guys to keep them fresh. That has taken a massive hit with the portal.
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Hall of Famer [22752]
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Re: So, not 10-15 transfers per year, but 7. Which transfers
Dec 5, 2022, 2:36 PM
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I’ve said something similar all along regarding DJ but it goes further back than that. He got his first D-1 scholarship offer in something crazy like 6th or 8th grade. Sounds like he has always had the strongest arm, been one of the bigger kids and just never really had to work to be the best before college. All reports are he has worked hard since he got here but did he have the competitive mentality that most develop earlier because they had to compete for their playing time at an earlier age? How far behind did that put him?
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Orange Blooded [4036]
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Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice
Dec 5, 2022, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice ] |
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So, you think no 3 * should get an offer from Clemson?
Should the coaching staff come check with you before offers are made?
Some players peak in high school, some obviously get better.
This does lead to new questions we (all high performing programs) have never faced before.
Do we cheat like USC (Calif) and recruit off other teams rosters?
Do you take a solid 3 or 4* player transfer for a year and not offer a 5* high school player when you have no more schollys?
How does culture fit into transfers? Aka, how many can you bring in before high school stars don’t want to come because they just went down the depth chart before even showing up?
It is not as simple as many of you like to make it.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice
Dec 5, 2022, 12:55 PM
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"So, you think no 3 * should get an offer from Clemson?"
At no point did I ever say that.
"Should the coaching staff come check with you before offers are made?"
Oh here we go with the lazy arguments again. You know someone is defeated in their argument when they start asking for credentials.
"Some players peak in high school, some obviously get better."
sure
"Do we cheat like USC (Calif) and recruit off other teams rosters?"
No
"Do you take a solid 3 or 4* player transfer for a year and not offer a 5* high school player when you have no more schollys?"
No
"How does culture fit into transfers? Aka, how many can you bring in before high school stars don’t want to come because they just went down the depth chart before even showing up?"
This flat out a myth
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All-American [562]
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All-American [562]
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All-American [562]
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Legend [17645]
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Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice
Dec 5, 2022, 12:37 PM
[ in reply to Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice ] |
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You asked, I would eliminate most upperclass walk-on, Daniel high school, and friends & family scholarships. Most of these comparatively small and slow practice players do not play on Offense or Defense, and they hurt us on Special Teams.
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Hall of Famer [22395]
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Starter [394]
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I solved this problem months ago -
Dec 5, 2022, 12:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Which of our current commitments would you sacrifice ] |
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Reduce the number of scholarships from 85 to 65 and players can get in the portal to nowhere. 65 is plenty given the NFL (with a longer schedule) can make it with 53 players.
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Rock Defender [56]
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Re: I solved this problem months ago -
Dec 5, 2022, 3:20 PM
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With half the pro teams barely able to field a team by the end of the season.
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All-American [562]
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Orange Blooded [4071]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 11:51 AM
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More are leaving...we need to sign slightly more HS kids, knowing add'l kids leave in the spring. Dabo has been correct, you build from HS ranks...but we need to do what BAMA has done....sprinkle in portal when needed. This year, however, we may need a bit more portal. We've been playing with one hand tied behind our back too long..by our choosing. 85 is already a low number, but our numbers have been too low (poor roster management---THE #1 issue facing this program). As seen in the past several games, you see what low quality numbers can do---you have kids playing that have no business playing meaningful minutes in critical games either due to lack of talent or...they are too inexperienced and shouldn't be out there yet.
Disagree about WR and OL rooms. Need more quality in each..as well as DB room. UNC is not a good barometer if we are trying to win CFP Championships. We need to be giving extra schollys to kids that will statistically (yes, rarely you hit on a Hunter Renfrow) will be solid contributors
Message was edited by: JREwing®
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All-In [44055]
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I wish it were as simple as you make it seem.
Dec 5, 2022, 12:31 PM
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We have had poor roster management for several years now. Dabo's lack of interest in using the portal, coupled with poor coaching hires resulting in subpar player development, is a recipe for disaster.
It might seem like we aren't far off from the top 4, and I agree that having a dynamic QB like Klubnik gives us reason for optimism, but we still lack the elite difference maker at WR. Based on our recruiting, we are setup to still be without a game changer at WR. While Shipley and Mafah are both very good RBs, we are overdue for a top flight RB recruit lately.
As mentioned previously, our offensive scheme lacks creativity. It's easy to blame that on DJ, but we didn't really do much different the previous year with Trevor. We just had a generational QB and elite WRs who overcame the lack of innovative offense. That has to improve unless we have another Trevor Lawrence and Tee Higgins on our roster or arriving soon from elsewhere.
Our depth isn't what it used to be, which is going to hurt us moving forward.
Here's to Dabo seeing these issues, and recognizing the need to do something different than what we've been doing lately.
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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We were 2 points away from finishing 3rd and facing Michigan
Dec 5, 2022, 12:38 PM
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in a semi final.
I agree with some of what you are saying but think you are exaggerating.
The MAIN question we still don't have an adequate answer to is the real reason why Klubnik wasn't starting earlier. The answers given are not adequate and as alumni, donors, fans, we deserve the truth. Something isn't right.
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Orange Blooded [4071]
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Re: We were 2 points away from finishing 3rd and facing Michigan
Dec 5, 2022, 2:29 PM
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We are also a few plays away from losing a few more games....
We have major roster management issues; yet, with slight adjustments, within two seasons, this could go-away or at least be much more manageable. No reason for the DB and WR rooms to be this thin....even with injuries. NONE. Self-infliction for no reason. The same players you are trying to protect are bailing on you
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All-American [562]
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Bingo and we are in a period of slow decline .....
Dec 5, 2022, 2:59 PM
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due in part to our course of action regarding the TP-
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Orange Blooded [4071]
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Judge...
Dec 5, 2022, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to I wish it were as simple as you make it seem. ] |
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If we can just add 2-3 quality portal guys each year (maybe this year its 5-6).....and offer and sign a few more HS kids, the problem literally will go away in two seasons barring a catastrophic injury bug. Every team needs role players that aren't stars...but we take too many projects that have no business being on scholly at a school like CLEM. When those dudes eventually transfer (see transfers from the last two years) and then you don't backfill with portal and then you take those spots and give them to walk-ons, then you have a MAJOR quality depth (roster management) issue. Totally self-inflicted for ZERO reason. Silly if you are competing with schools like UGA, BAMA, OSU, etc... & you only have 85. Now if your goal is simply being competitive in the ACC...then that's another thing.
Totally agree with you....we need an infusion of new offensive ideas for sure.....badly
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: Given that we have 23 commitments and more offers still out
Dec 5, 2022, 3:12 PM
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Yall suck
Yall played a trash UNC defense and you think DJ was your only problem hahah
Dakereon Joyner didn't play QB at all last year. Didnt practice a single snap all year at QB
Then practices for 2 weeks for the bowl and goes 9 / 9 for 164 yds and a TD and runs for another 64 yds
Yall told us Rattler only shredded TN bc TN defense sux (until Rattler shredded yall lol)
But Cade goes and beats the #116 passing defense out of 131 teams and yall think Cade is the man
Man...the logic yall use haha. Enjoy your decline
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